BERIGAN Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Never No Lament the Blanton-Webster Band Funny, I thought I had read something about this on the board awhile back, but could not find it... I listened to a few tracks at Barnes and Noble a few weeks back, and could not believe how bad it sounded! Not just some surface noise, more like someone found some worn out records at goodwill and thought how much time and money they could save just creating cds from those discs! I don't know why I didn't mention it sooner, and just did a quick check of the reviews and saw they were decidedly mixed, even the packaging is rough inside, it appears. Did anyone hear if this was as someone mentioned in a review at Amazon a production error? Amazing if this is what BMG/RCA really planned to put out.... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ustomer-reviews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mary mcgoon Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I think there was a thread on this at AAJ. From what I've read (not actually having heard all the discs), these are the same remasters as in the Ellington centennial box. These were largely taken from original metal parts, some of which were damaged- Jack the Bear being one of the most egregious examples. I suppose the editorial policy was that the added clarity from using metal parts made up for the distortion and noise present in some of them. I have heard Jack the Bear and it's pretty hard to listen to, but the original Blanton-Webster box is pretty bad too for the opposite reason- too much noise reduction. When I listen to this stuff, I usually use the Smithsonian LP set or the French Jazz Tribune set, which seem to be somewhere in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I've come to the conclusion that sound preferences are VERY subjective. About the only thing we all agree upon is how ROTTEN the late 80s Sony reissues were. To me this set is an improvement over the Blue Bird set and over a Masters Of Jazz compilation that contains some of this material. Yes - there is peak distortion at points but not to the point where it ruins my listening. In general RCA issues sound good to me - and for the past few years - Sony reissues also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mary mcgoon Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I think light peak distortion is much more tolerable than that blanket-over-the-speakers sound of heavily noise reduced recordings, if only because of its transient nature. That said, the remaster of "Jack The Bear" that I heard (on the centennial box highlights disc) was really hard to Bear, (Jack). The distortion was too heavy and too recurrent to allow me to enjoy the music, and that's one of my favorite Ellingtons from any era. Apparently Jack the Bear is the worst case on the set, and most of the other tracks show great improvement. I'm debating whether to get this or trying to grab a complete set on ebay. I refuse to become an audiophile, but I do think the sound on jazz reissues, especially from 78 rpm sources has improved infinitely in the last 10-15 years. A good general rule is if you're not hearing some surface noise or tape hiss, there's probably to much noise reduction used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrugs Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...5&category=2028 Sometimes the talk of vinyl makes people think big money, in this case it's a big savings. And the sound is superior to the new cd reissues. There are more volumes done by the Smithsonian folks that I can say are worth the search. Especially the Dizzy, John Kirby, Fletcher Henderson, Teddy Wilson and all the Dukes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 To me this set is an improvement over the Blue Bird set and over a Masters Of Jazz compilation that contains some of this material. Yes - there is peak distortion at points but not to the point where it ruins my listening. In general RCA issues sound good to me - and for the past few years - Sony reissues also. Which Masters of Jazz compilation are you referring to? The Duke Ellington Masters of Jazz series came to a dead halt at volume 12 (1932). Was hoping that MofJ would survive until they would deal with the 1940 Duke to check what they would be able to remaster since they worked from original 78s mostly. But MofJ is a thing of the past, alas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mary mcgoon Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 (edited) Shrugs: Sometimes the talk of vinyl makes people think big money, in this case it's a big savings. And the sound is superior to the new cd reissues. There are more volumes done by the Smithsonian folks that I can say are worth the search. Especially the Dizzy, John Kirby, Fletcher Henderson, Teddy Wilson and all the Dukes. The Smithsonian sets are wonderful for sound, selection, and notes. When I got my first CD player and went through my idiot phase of dumping vinyl (luckily it was a fast passing phase), I kept those because of the great liner notes. Smithsonian also did some pretty cool non-jazz sets- inclusing a 3 LP Victor Herbert set, a 2 LP attempt to recreate the 1924 Paul Whiteman Rhapsody In Blue concert, and some recreations of Broadway shows from the 20s. All these use period recordings. This material is harder to find nowadays than most of the jazz stuff. Edited July 3, 2003 by mary mcgoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I haven't really noticed the sound that much (although I'm not an "audiophile") but am hearing the music for the first time EVER, and am stunned by its sheer beauty. And what a collection of players! No wonder they called this Duke's best band ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Williams Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 This music survives any damage done by the remastering: I grew to love it from a highly noise-reduced CD, but glad to have the Centennial set, the main mistake of which seems to me to have been a determination to use the original metal parts even when they were damaged a little beyond acceptability; but even with Jack The Bear the fidelity still justifies the effort - I'd take this version over any other I've heard except the one I've got on a comp of JRT Davies-remastered stuff. I'd like to hear a good vinyl version of this music, but RCA version is pretty good to my ears (and good bass too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I agree with Harold Z. While the distortion is a bit high on some pieces on the first disc, the set for the most part is very nice and quite listenable. I would recommend this set to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I think overall the RCA box is amazing. Yea there are a few tracks that I wish sounded better, but when you consider how much of it sounds great it's a small percentage that isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Y'all have said it all as far as I am concerned. I'm so glad I have the RCA box, but if not, I'd go for this smaller set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Vitus Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I think overall the RCA box is amazing. Yea there are a few tracks that I wish sounded better, but when you consider how much of it sounds great it's a small percentage that isn't. I agree with this assessment but to surprisingly many folks a few tracks sounding horrible is often enough to ruin the whole experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom in RI Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Hey Shrugs, Don't those Smithsonian lps have transcriptions that are different from the commercially issued takes of the same songs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrugs Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 The 1940 set has credits that say "Recordings from the collection of Granville Hurley, John Callanan, Dennette Harrod, Donald McCathran, Jerry Valburn, Ed Wason, Ted Shell and Jack Towers." Master Tapes prepared by Jack Towers Re: new cd's By all means, check out them out. I agree that the music transcends everything else. If you ain't dancing after the first 10 seconds, see a shrink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Brownie...the MOJ I'm refering to is a one disc comp on Proper labeled as Essential - Masters Of Jazz. it also has the logo Media 7 on it. This series came under discussion a couple of years ago on Jazz Corner - I think the general consensus was it was the same source material and mastering as the Masters Of Jazz label. At any rate it's a good sounding disc....But I like the RCA better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjazz Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 You can now buy the Ellington BLANTON-WEBSTER set from BMG club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mary mcgoon Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Tom in RI asked: Don't those Smithsonian lps have transcriptions that are different from the commercially issued takes of the same songs? The 1940 set doesn't. The 1941 set has quite a few tracks recorded for Standard Transcriptions, and two recorded for Soundies, in addition to the standard Victor versions. There are no tracks from "Jump for Joy" on the 1941 set, these were released on a seperate Smithsonian set documenting that show. 1940 has a couple of alternate takes in addition to the masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrugs Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Sounds like you know those sets!! I need to hunt down the other Dukes I don't own. I listened to some of the John Kirby this morning. Frankie Newton freaks apply within. I saw a copy of the Dizzy for $5 today!! I already own it(lucked out and found it and many others at Goodwill!!) but can pick it up if anyone is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Dave, check your e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I generally prefer the approach that favors presence over surface cleanliness, although I know others who vastly prefer, say, the previous Sony Benny Goodman 1938 Carnegie Hall issue to the current one. One thing I noticed on several of the earliest Ellington sides when I picked up the red BMG complete set was a squeaky, squealing sound that grew louder as the track approached its end. I called BMG and talked to Joshua Sherman about this, and he explained it to me as "groove squeak." Anybody else familiar with this phenomenon? In any case, I'm so happy with the greatly enhanced sense of space and warmth of the new re-masterings over the old Blanton-Webster set that I don't mind--though it does seem that perhaps they should have made an exception in the case of "Jack the Bear." I'm pleased with the new Blanton/Webster reissue, though this is also the first encounter I've had with most of the music. The surface noise decreases dramatically as you make your way through the set. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 (edited) Has anyone heard the reissue "Ko-Ko" on Dreyfus label? about Ko-Ko This review picqued my interest so I ordered a copy here: Music Selection Edited July 19, 2004 by Pete B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I have the Dreyfus CD and I think it's superior to the RCA Lasker remasterings. There's a companion volume, 'Take the A Train' from Dreyfus that extends through the mid 40s..it's also worth picking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Has anyone heard the reissue "Ko-Ko" on Dreyfus label? about Ko-Ko From the description it sounds like a lot of processing and noise reduction was done. Not usually a good thing, but perhaps in this case...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I haven't heard the Ellington Dreyfus but own several others - they sound spectacular, but compared to transfers from the metal parts I tend to prefer these. The Dreyfus remasterings have much less surface noise, more dynamics and thicker bass and clear treble, but lose on the natural room ambience the Centennial set has. The Django Reinhardt CD sounds great - I think their method works best with pre-1940s recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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