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BFT #28 - Disc One: DISCUSSION


MartyJazz

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(snip)

But the coolest thing about this BFT is that it has the same sense of fun and whimsy that BFT #21 had. (pat, pat, pat, pat!) Seriously, I felt like I was listening to a BFT that I could've easily put together, because this is pretty much the same kind of music I dig: happy, bouncy, SWINGING LIKE MAD!

I mean, ever since I posted my guesses, I've been listening to this sucker non-stop. Now that JSngry & Brownie have posted their guesses, it's like listening with new ears (or, at least, better educated ears, anyway!)

With all due respect, I'm not sure you could have put this one together, Big Al. Think about it, could you program 18 tracks and not include one that features an organ? :)

As for non-stop listening to this BFT, I'm happy for that. I wanted to make at least one BFT that, once the answers are posted and we move on, just might continue to have an occasional spin by one (or more) of you here. So thanks for the good word.

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Well, I’m later than usual to this party. Just got back from a “vacation” to Tahiti with my wife’s (dysfunctional ;)) family (the kind of “vacation” where you’re constantly dealing with family conflicts, fighting off mosquitos, dealing with multiple sunburns, airport-hopping and waiting in endless lines, returning on a red-eye and facing the dreaded “restless leg syndrome” on an 8-hour flight), and I am BEAT. I even caught a cold two days before we left. Yeesh.

I took most of the BFT music with me on minidisc, and so I had time to jot down some notes on most of the tracks (good thing, becuase I don’t know if I could muster the energy to start from scratch right now). MANY thanks to Marty for compiling these discs, and for adding to the enjoyment of my evening hours during my “vacation”. So, I’m sure I can’t add anything new to the discussion, but I promised Marty I would do this...

1. 1930’s? Swing group with clarinet, tb, growling tpt... very tasty, nice minor mood here. GROOVY rhythmic backdrop. Tons of personality in the solos. Kind of early for me in terms of knowing what the hell I’m dealing with, but I would have to guess that this is an Ellington group, due to the aforementioned personality as well as the general sense of elegance here. Pretty hard not to dig.

2. 1950’s, latin rhythm with ts, tpt,bari, p. Simple but attractive melody... I feel like I should recognize this. I don’t know that I own it, but I’ll bet I own something by this group (assuming they recorded other albums). I’m tempted to say this is Pepper Adams, but the trumpet doesn’t sound like Byrd. Not sure of the ts. If I’d been at home, I might have been able to figure out whether this is in my collection. At any rate, sign me up!

3. 60’s, hard driving piano trio. Harmonically adventurous... much skill on display, but not really my favorite style.

4. Wow... this is a stumper. I know that there have been hundreds of guitarists who have followed Django’s style very closely over the years, but I just can’t get away from the fact that so much of this sounds like the master himself. Although I’m a longtime guitar nut, I’ve never realy been a Djangophile (or even a gypsyphile). So, I’m not very familiar with a great deal of DR’s work. I know he made a few recordings late in his life with electric guitars, and I’m going to say that’s what this is. There are a few moments where it definitely does NOT sound like Django (and I mean in terms of style and phrasing, as opposed to tone), but the impact of the other passages where it DOES sound like him is overpowering me.

5. Very nice minor hard bop exercise. Kind of Horace-like in feel, but not quite Horace. Sign me up for this too (unless I already own it :rolleyes: ). I don’t think I do, though.

6. Back to swing... a big band feature for piano. Very nice romp, but out of my area of knowledge, I’m afraid.

7. Sounds like the early 50’s. Composition/arrangement sounds like it might be Tadd Dameron. Nice lush arrangement. I’m pretty sure I have this, but I can’t nail it, being away from my collection.

8. 30’s swinger, pretty hard not to like, but I have no real clue.

9. I really like the instrumentation, and I like the opening vamp, but I’m not sure the solos were strong enough to justify the absence of further melodic development. This little melody would have made a nice intro for something more beefy in terms of thematic structure, IMO.

10. This seems to be based on standard changes, but I can’t seem to place the standard. Nice west coast sound... the Lighthouse Allstars, perhaps? Maybe a Lennie Niehaus group?

11. I know I own this tune, but it’s not not quite familiar enough to idenfify. I don’t care too much for the head, which reminds me style-wise of some of Wayne Shorter’s writing (not a big Shorter fan). Once it goes into the solos, though, I’m more into it. It sounds like Blue Mitchell, and I think the pianist could be Wynton Kelly. PC perhaps, or Sam Jones, but not Cobb. Damn- the only quartet album with Mitchell that I can think of right now is the Bobby Timmons album...

12. No idea. Next...

13. Sounds like a Basie tenor battle, but I’m unsure of the tenors. Is one of them Quinichette? They don’t play it at the beginning, but the line played near the end is familiar... I’m associating this tune with Goodman when he had Charlie Christian, but the title is escaping me.

14. Monkish melody, which I can’t identify, dammit. Sounds like a relatively modern recording... obviously, not Monk on piano. Nice playing by all.

15. Nice bebop trumpet battle. Some Dizzy-influenced licks in there, but not Diz... I can’t say I’m sure who’s playing. I haven’t spent enough time with the cats from that period... Navarro, McGhee, etc. The alto is very solid as well... Bird school, but I can’t think of who this might be. Same for the pianist. What’s really bugging me here is thinking of what these changes are based on.

16. This reminds me of what I’ve heard on radio by the Army / Air Force Bands of Glenn Miller (and no, that’s not a guess, because I’m far from qualified). Pleasant stuff.

17. Another simple melody that doesn’t really engage me. Nice unison and harmony lines, though. I prefer the bari solo over the tenor and the trumpet (and the piano). All kind of brief, though.

18. This reminds me of some of the Sun Ra stuff I’ve heard on BFT’s. The head doesn’t really grab me, but it was the best part for me. Didn’t care for the piano solo at all, and the trombone solo was a couple of notches below that.

Sorry to end on a sour note, but overall I found plenty to enjoy on this disc (preferred it over disc 2).

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Well, I’m later than usual to this party.  Just got back from a “vacation” to Tahiti with my wife’s (dysfunctional ;)) family (the kind of “vacation” where you’re constantly dealing with family conflicts, fighting off mosquitos, dealing with multiple sunburns, airport-hopping and waiting in endless lines, returning on a red-eye and facing the dreaded “restless leg syndrome” on an 8-hour flight), and I am BEAT.  I even caught a cold two days before we left.  Yeesh.

I took most of the BFT music with me on minidisc, and so I had time to jot down some notes on most of the tracks (good thing, becuase I don’t know if I could muster the energy to start from scratch right now).  MANY thanks to Marty for compiling these discs, and for adding to the enjoyment of my evening hours during my “vacation”.  So, I’m sure I can’t add anything new to the discussion, but I promised Marty I would do this...

(snip)

Very happy you came on board, Jim. You were right on with quite a few of your guesses, e.g., the leader on #10 (although I can't place the standard the line is based on either). Check out the previous responses for a couple of the swing, big band IDs, etc. Overall, very little mystery left on this disc, but some questions remain outstanding, e.g., tenors on #13.

Hard for me to sympathize with what you had to deal with on vacation. After all, you were in Tahiti!!!! Couldn't have been that bad?!!

Thanks very much for comng through. :tup

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Well, I’m later than usual to this party.  Just got back from a “vacation” to Tahiti with my wife’s (dysfunctional ;)) family (the kind of “vacation” where you’re constantly dealing with family conflicts, fighting off mosquitos, dealing with multiple sunburns, airport-hopping and waiting in endless lines, returning on a red-eye and facing the dreaded “restless leg syndrome” on an 8-hour flight), and I am BEAT.  I even caught a cold two days before we left.  Yeesh.

I took most of the BFT music with me on minidisc, and so I had time to jot down some notes on most of the tracks (good thing, becuase I don’t know if I could muster the energy to start from scratch right now).  MANY thanks to Marty for compiling these discs, and for adding to the enjoyment of my evening hours during my “vacation”.  So, I’m sure I can’t add anything new to the discussion, but I promised Marty I would do this...

(snip)

Very happy you came on board, Jim. You were right on with quite a few of your guesses, e.g., the leader on #10 (although I can't place the standard the line is based on either). Check out the previous responses for a couple of the swing, big band IDs, etc. Overall, very little mystery left on this disc, but some questions remain outstanding, e.g., tenors on #13.

Shucks... thought maybe I'd gotten one. I hate just tossing names out there without any real reasoning (aside from the Basie connection) to go along with them, but were Foster and/or Wess mentioned? I'll have to go back and read more.

Hard for me to sympathize with what you had to deal with on vacation.  After all, you were in Tahiti!!!!  Couldn't have been that bad?!!

Nah. In a couple of days I'm sure the whole nightmare will be forgotten. ^_^ But really, some of it was indeed very good. Some of it was "weird", too... we were on Moorea, and within a short walking distance from our hotel was the huge fenced-off ghost resort of Club Med (closed soon after 9/11). Some of the bungalows still had furniture in them. Very eerie looking. We joked about it looking like a set for Jurassic Park. :unsure:

Thanks very much for comng through.  :tup

Hey- my pleasure! :tup

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Listening again just now, I have to say I like disc 1 even more than disc 2. My first impression a week or so ago wasn't as good, but further listen has won me over. Not a bad track in the bunch, and only a few (relatively) weak ones. But again, Marty has really stumped me...

1. Sounds like Duke’s band, but why do I feel that Marty’s trying to get one by us? ;)

2. Like this a lot! Great Caravan-y rhythm. Love the bari sax. Maybe a Duke small group date?

3. Just a touch modal in the beginning, but then more bop-ish. I’m digging this trio quite a bit. No ideas, though.

4. Great guitar sound – very percussive. My first thought is Pat Martino.

5. This has a Blue Note sound to it, and for some reason I’m thinking of Lee Morgan’s Delightful-Lee album.

6. Geez, rhythm section at least sounds like Basie’s band…

7. Very solid playing, but doesn’t really grab me. I’m sure I’ll be embarrassed when I learn who it is. (I wrote those comments earlier; listening again, I’m digging this much more.)

8. Ah, some old boogie-woogie jass. How can anyone not like this?

9. I first thought Gary Burton, but the piano doesn’t fit. Lem Winchester? I love the sound of vibes. So delicate, but percussive. Love the rhythm created by the left hand of the piano. Really great track!

10. Sounds rather West Coast-ish – maybe a Giuffre or Shorty Rogers arrangement?

11. Familiar tune – I either have this or have heard it before. Really like the bass work here. I’ll guess Lee Morgan again since I dig this and he’s one of my favorite trumpeters.

12. Neat, very atmospheric piece, like a 50’s film noir score. Vibes. Possibly one of the albums that Oliver Nelson did with Winchester?

13. Don Byas? Another solid track.

14. Another good one. I’m thinking Herbie on piano for some reason.

15. I should know the title of this piece as it’s very familiar, though perhaps not this version.

16. When I think of the big bands I know and like, this sounds closest to Duke’s but I don’t think that’s it. Maybe Woody Herman? Tune sounds familiar.

17. Again, the bari sax really gets me. Nice track!

18. Clarinet? But the music feels too “modern” for most of the clarinetists I’m familiar with. Don Byron maybe?

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Thanks for the discs Marty! I've had a chance to listen to disc one twice. I wrote down some thoughts this afternoon (in the car! yikes!)

01 The vibrato on those opening chords is heavenly. I think it is a trombone. There is no separation between the sounds of the horns. Organ sounds are designed after stuff like this. Great music. Great soloing. I really like the ensemble playing though. I need more music like this...

02 I've heard this. Or maybe it just seems familiar. Whoa, heavy tenor sounds great with the baritone. I'd love to hear the bari take a turn. Beautiful tones, the trumpet seems to be sliding through those notes without much attack. May be Dorham, but I'm not confident with that guess, just that I've heard him play this way. I don't want to say that there is a lack of chops, but it isn't traditionally brilliant trumpet chops. There's the bari! This is some of that good "world influenced" hard bop. I wouldn't be surprised if the title had some sort of middle eastern reference. Bass and drums are just chugging along. Nice.

03 Initially, I'm not digging the pianists rhythm, but I'm into some of the clusters he's playing. It is his right hand-the stiff and pointed attack on the keys. So staccato. Chick Corea? The melody seems so squared off because of it. The use of those big block chords reminds me of Tyner though, but his lines flow more than this.

04 Now that sounds like a well-constructed electric guitar. I love that sound. Barney Kessel or Tal come to mind, but I would rule out Tal. More Django-styled. I'm guessing Kessel because of his affinity of pitch-bending. Much different tone though. I don't know!

05 Another baritone! Nice hi-hat. Nice drumming all around. Now this pianist is in there with some great playing behind the bari solo. Man, the tenor player took some great unexpected turns in there, to me anyway.

06 Oooooh. No idea, but I like it! The detail in the arranging! Amazing piano playing, so chromatic and it just sounds right.

07 I know this. Beautiful. I'm not so sure I know this. I like the sparse snare work. Damn.

08 Damn!

09 Walt Dickerson no doubt about it. That big ringing tone, the quick hands, his phrasing, the sound of the mallets, the big sound of the low bars on that Deagan, the waivering vibrato. The pianist seems to be having some tempo trouble with his left hand during his solo. I think this is from one of his first two for Prestige. I love how Cyrille makes the 3/4 sound off balance, like he backed into a waltz before realizing it was a waltz he was playing.

10 Great stuff! I'm loving this disc Marty!

11 They almost get going like a Mingus band! I love this feel.

12 At first this reminded me of Revolt of the Negro Lawn Jockeys. I was thinking Moondock on alto, then I remembered there weren't two altos on that recording, and a couple of things the vibist did reminded me of Hutcherson's four mallet playing. I have to pull this disc back out! Depending on who I'm listening to it with, this disc can sound pretty far out at times. A good compromise between the sounds of Ornette Coleman and Eric Dolphy.

13 I'm thinking Ellington, then I'm thinking Basie. I am at a disadvantage here due to my age. The sound of these guy's orchestra's has not yet entirely sunk in.

14 I recognize this as a Monk tune, but I'm stuck after that. The sound of the band isn't all that appealing to me for some reason.

15

16

17

18 Nice! I've got this. An early favorite, bought just after hearing Four For Trane.

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Thanks for the discs Marty! I've had a chance to listen to disc one twice. I wrote down some thoughts this afternoon (in the car! yikes!)

03 Initially, I'm not digging the pianists rhythm, but I'm into some of the clusters he's playing. It is his right hand-the stiff and pointed attack on the keys. So staccato. Chick Corea? The melody seems so squared off because of it. The use of those big block chords reminds me of Tyner though, but his lines flow more than this.

>>ME: I thought of acoustic Chick also when I first heard this which is why I dig it.  Pianist has been id'd earlier.  Perhaps a surprise or maybe not

04 Now that sounds like a well-constructed electric guitar. I love that sound. Barney Kessel or Tal come to mind, but I would rule out Tal. More Django-styled. I'm guessing Kessel because of his affinity of pitch-bending. Much different tone though. I don't know!

>>ME: "Django-styled" for a very good reason!  Again it's been id'd.

06 Oooooh. No idea, but I like it! The detail in the arranging! Amazing piano playing, so chromatic and it just sounds right.

>>ME: Glad you like this.  Also id'd earlier.  I'll discuss more with my answers.

09 Walt Dickerson no doubt about it. That big ringing tone, the quick hands, his phrasing, the sound of the mallets, the big sound of the low bars on that Deagan, the waivering vibrato. The pianist seems to be having some tempo trouble with his left hand during his solo. I think this is from one of his first two for Prestige. I love how Cyrille makes the 3/4 sound off balance, like he backed into a waltz before realizing it was a waltz he was playing.

>>ME: Sounds like you really know this player!

10 Great stuff! I'm loving this disc Marty!

11 They almost get going like a Mingus band! I love this feel.

12 At first this reminded me of Revolt of the Negro Lawn Jockeys. I was thinking Moondock on alto, then I remembered there weren't two altos on that recording, and a couple of things the vibist did reminded me of Hutcherson's four mallet playing. I have to pull this disc back out! Depending on who I'm listening to it with, this disc can sound pretty far out at times. A good compromise between the sounds of Ornette Coleman and Eric Dolphy.

>>ME: "Revolt of the Negro Lawn Jockeys"??!!!  What's that about?

14 I recognize this as a Monk tune, but I'm stuck after that. The sound of the band isn't all that appealing to me for some reason.

>>ME:  A Monk homage, but not one of his tunes.  Again, it's been id'd (unfortunately  :) )

18  Nice! I've got this. An early favorite, bought just after hearing Four For Trane.

>>ME: Rather appropriate in view of the title of the album.

Thanks for the input.  Hope you get a chance to do Disc Two.

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Finally got around to zeroing in on what track 10 was:

Track 3 on this

Going back through the thread again, I see that I own track 3, which is by a favorite pianist. :rolleyes:

Turns out I don't own the CD that track 2 came from, but I'll remedy that! (ditto for track 5)

Looks like I was on the right track re #4, and I'm still surprised no matter how many times I spin it. I'll look forward to further info on that.

I'm still kind of in the dark re #7. Never had that album.

Still no strong ideas on the tenors on 13... (I guess those last two names I mentioned are too late... not sure what I was thinking there -_- )

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Finally got around to zeroing in on what track 10 was:

Track 3 on this

Going back through the thread again, I see that I own track 3, which is by a favorite pianist.  :rolleyes:

Turns out I don't own the CD that track 2 came from, but I'll remedy that! (ditto for track 5)

Looks like I was on the right track re #4, and I'm still surprised no matter how many times I spin it.  I'll look forward to further info on that.

I'm still kind of in the dark re #7.  Never had that album.

Still no strong ideas on the tenors on 13... (I guess those last two names I mentioned are too late... not sure what I was thinking there -_- )

Nice work on track #10. Perfect ID.

Re track #4, I understand your continual surprise. It's the context of the recording that throws people off, i.e., hardly anyone is used to hearing this guitarist with a "modern" rhythm section. I guess that's why I picked the track for the BFT - it's a revelation to those who don't own the session.

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Finally got around to zeroing in on what track 10 was:

Track 3 on this

Feel totally stuupid about not guessing that track.

I was a hundred percent sure about the drummer and almost a hundred about the baritone. Went through my vinyls from the date leader, I was sure he was involved. checked the tracks which had that kind of lineup and could not identify.

Forgot that there was one of these albums I never could find in acceptable condition. Turns out it was that one :(

Nice work indeed, Jim R :tup

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Finally got around to zeroing in on what track 10 was:

Track 3 on this

Feel totally stuupid about not guessing that track.

I was a hundred percent sure about the drummer and almost a hundred about the baritone. Went through my vinyls from the date leader, I was sure he was involved. checked the tracks which had that kind of lineup and could not identify.

Forgot that there was one of these albums I never could find in acceptable condition. Turns out it was that one :(

Nice work indeed, Jim R :tup

Don't be too hard on yourself, brownie. Re the album you couldn't find in "acceptable condition", was that a vinyl you're talking about or a CD? If you didn't have the vinyl and never copped the CD, how would you be able to positively ID the track?

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Finally got around to zeroing in on what track 10 was:

Track 3 on this

Egad, that's volume 2 of a five-volume set? Where to start? Now THAT'S the kind of thing that Concord should box up into a package like what they're doing with the Miles Davis Quintet stuff!

Where I'd start is exactly the way I started, with the octet sides (Vols. 2 & 3). Labeling them as "volumes" is completely arbitrary; they really are six separate albums and I think the octet sides are the best of the lot. In addition to the link Jim R posted above, this is the other CD I would get first:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dr...d5693938sx5.jpg

Once you have the octet sides, then you can decide if you also want the quintet, sextet, and, with strings, volumes.

Edited by MartyJazz
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Finally got around to zeroing in on what track 10 was:

Track 3 on this

Egad, that's volume 2 of a five-volume set? Where to start? Now THAT'S the kind of thing that Concord should box up into a package like what they're doing with the Miles Davis Quintet stuff!

Where I'd start is exactly the way I started, with the octet sides (Vols. 2 & 3). Labeling them as "volumes" is completely arbitrary; they really are six separate albums and I think the octet sides are the best of the lot. In addition to the link Jim R posted above, this is the other CD I would get first:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dr...d5693938sx5.jpg

Once you have the octet sides, then you can decide if you also want the quintet, sextet, and, with strings, volumes.

Thanks! :tup

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At last, my two cents ... the reasons why I am so late can be read in the AOTW thread I just started.

What a pity, as this disc is lovingly conceived, carefully programmed and all - I loved it right from the start, but then fate struck and interrupted my listening pleasures. I have to admit that besides the lack of time I had to regain the right mood for this type of music. To make things worse, I can't locate my notes taken at first listen ... It's a great bunch of discs, will receive frequent replay, that's for sure.

No AMGing or checking my collection, except for three items I identified right away, and no peeking at the others' guesses.

Track 1: Great track, reminds me a little of Duke's "It don't mean a thing ..." - now is this Duke? It's good enough. Don't know this, as far as I can remember. Would buy this.

Track 2: One of the few satisfying mixes of tango and jazz rhythm I have heard. No idea who they are. Nice theme. Nice soloists throughout. Trumpet has a touch of Dorham. Pepper Adams on baritone? Or his master disciple, Gary Smulyan? I hear some Barry Harris in the piano solo ... Gets nicer by the bar - who is this? (Being that late, I have the chance someone might have guessed, the only advantage of joining late.)

Track 3: Modern neobop piano à la Corea's "Now he sings ...", but that's not him. Like the pianist better than Corea, although I'm not a fan of that fast type of jazz. But they listen to each other, do not overplay, build it up nicely - a very good performance, but not something I would buy.

Track 4: Oh!!! What a nice surprise!!! A track I considered for my upcoming BFT next year ....

Wonder how many got this, brownie, did, I'm sure. I wish he would have lived longer to develop more in that direction. Great stuff with a very special aura.

Track 5: Almost silverish theme, I think I recognize Cecil Payne already in the theme, so personal is his sound. Yeah, that must be Cecil! I want this! Trumpet has some characteristic licks ... Arthur Taylor on drums? Or Lex Humphries? Interesting alto. Almost Blue-Note-ish in sound, but I would know if there was another Blue Note date with Cecil. Can't wait to find out.

Track 6: Quite a leap back in time .... pianist sounds like he listened to some beboppers already, but the ain't none, to many unelegant chromatics, can't identify him.

Track 7: First thought was, "this is an unreleased outtake from Tadd Dameron's last album ....", and in a way, that's what it is. Good solos, but shaky ensembles. More rehearsals and one more session, and we would have one more great Dameron album. Why did Alfred Lion abandon that project?????

BTW - I still wonder why there weren't more comments on the Dameron AOTW.

Track 8: I'm not well-rounded enough in this era of jazz, but this is another great track. Too much good music, as they say, and way too little time and money ... Great sock cymbal work! They swing like mad! Gimme more of this!

Track 9: I guess Walt Dickerson - the delicate vibes sound and agile phrasing suggest this. If so, an early Prestige album. Excellent choice!

Track 10: Huh? A piano solo after that sax section intro? Chaloff-like baritone. West coast alto cat. Mel Lewis on drums? Some licks are out of his book, but the overall drum sound is a little light for him. Excellent job, but not a must buy for me. I find the piano superfluous in this one, somehow.

Track 11: I know that composition, but can't put my finger on it. Like that trumpeter very much. Blue Mitchell? Don't have the time to check his Riversides, which have a whole LP and several tracks in a quartet setting. That bass sounds like Sam Jones. Roy Brooks?

Track 12: Two altos, vibes, bass and drums? Hutcherson? I don't listen to that type of thing too often, but this is nice.

Track 13: I have too little of good swing era music in my collection, that's for sure ..... but that could be Basie. Is Quinichette among the tenors? Lestorian cats ... the end theme is an old Basie warhorse, IIRC.

Track 14: Monkish humor in the theme - yeah! I like this kind of thing very much. That mellow trumpet sounds familiar. This pianist understood his Thelonious pretty well. Excellent choice - who is this?

Track 15: More Blue Note Dameron! Classic stuff! Nobody else could write so smoothly shaped melodies.

Track 16: I hate to repeat myself ... great swing era music!!!

Track 17: Another good piece of music where I can't identify anybody, though the tenor sounds familiar. Martin likes good baritone players .....

Track 18: Very humorous again - Mingus-type writing. Is that Jaki Byard at the piano? Trombonist is a limited player who can't really take off, in spite of the ryhthm section heating it up underneath. Alto cat is more interesting, has more resources at his disposal. That's a three star selection.

Disc two will have to wait until tomorrow - thanks for now - great choices!!!

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