BFT #29 Disc 2 Discussion

[Upright Bill]

There is a theme to BFT #29. Correct identification of the theme will result in additional points which can be redeemed for lovely prizes.

Discs 2 is merely the overflow from disc 1 and should not be listened to as a distinct entity.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

Edited September 9, 2005 by Upright Bill

[take5]

1. Trio tune starting off with bass lead. Cool. If I had to guess, assuming it's one of the classic cats, I would say Ron Carter

2. Bad ass! Cliff Brown? Perrhaps with the Jazz Messengers?

3. This was ok, nothing that made me think of anything else.

4. Double saxamophones, like Al Cohn and Zoot Simms, but more boppish.

5. Ok, this is different. Reminds me of that Lebonese jazz dude I heard, Rabu-something or other.

6. This sounds like some record date I heard a while back that had Jimmy Giffrin, Hank Mobley and John Coltrane. I think it was called "Holy Crap That's A Lot of Saxophone!"

7. I think I have this one. Lee Morgan? Hank Mobly, maybe?

8. What an odd bass tone. The rest is ok. Wouldn't hazard a guess though.

9. Groovy track, though too generic to guess or compare. Drummer reminds me of Jimmy Cobb.

10. The playful nature of the vibes performance reminds me of Bobby Hutcherson.

11. Reminds me of the current Joe Lovano/Hank Jones material.

12. Nice hot track.

13. Rock on, man!

Does the theme here have something to do with bass players? Seems a lot of emphasis on them...

[Rosco]

First run through, and as before, no peeking, sneaking or Googling (other than to provide links).

1. ‘All the Things You Are’ changes. Has something of the feel of the Bill Evans trio, though it’s not actually him (I'm fairly certain). No idea.

2. Instantly familiar. This chap?With the man here. Yep… it's track 4 from this album.

3. Another familiar one. Tenor on the bridge sounds like an early example of this musician. And the tenor/ trombone combo is the clincher… First track from this collection.

4. Not a particularly interesting theme. Sounds a little like Art Pepper on alto. The tenor sounds like Johnny Grifffin. I can’t imagine that those guys ever recorded together though. Like the sunny feel on this even if I don’t care too much for the tune itself.

5. Huh! There’s a surprise… is that an oud? There's one name that immediately springs to mind. The horn players sound familiar and lead me to believe it’s this album.If it is, I always wondered what this music sounded like. Will be seeking out more of this.

6. Ha! A tongue in cheek cod-Scottish vamp. This sounds very familiar but I can’t quite place it. Loose edgy baritone. Cool trumpet… Gah! The tenor sounds very familiar… sounds a lot like George Coleman in places, not in others! Tyner influenced piano. Hm, don’t know what to think here…

7. Now, this is one I know . I have it. But I can’t think what it is. Good tune. Good arrangement, getting the most out of a small group. The sort of writing I associate with Benny Golson or Horace Silver. That must be Lee on trumpet surely… Man, it’s frustrating when you know a tune and can’t think what it is… (see my Keith Jarrett quandary on the last BFT). Am gonna kick myself on this one.

8. Sounds like an 80s recording; peculiar bass sound… Fine playing all round without anyone blowing me away. Pleasant enough and swings nicely. No thoughts here, although the trumpet player seems naggingly familiar. Two bass solos? WTF??!

9. Interesting opening with just tenor & bass with fingersnaps. Good track. Again the tenor sounds like someone I should know. Like this.

10. ‘I Could Write a Book’; p, b,d & vibes. Not MJQ though, this digs in a little more groove wise and the vibes are a little sweeter sounding. No thoughts.

11. Once again I feel like I’m this close to IDing some of the individual players (particularly the tenor) but the brain ain’t kicking in. It’ll be obvious when I see the answers.

12. Modern recording, something from the last 15 years I’d guess. Spirited playing, works up quite a head of steam. The tenor/ soprano combo should be a clue but….

13. Bowed bass… into a Hendrix riff! Like it! Good fun.

I’m gonna give this a couple more listens to try and ID some of those familiar sounding players that are bugging me. And track 7! What the hell is track 7? I hate it when this happens…

Good compilation Bill…

[MartyJazz]

OK, casual listen while doing some work and jotted down some notes:

1) Of all things another bass feature obviously.

2) Track sounds very familiar. Gotta be J.J., probably an early Blue Note cut.

3) Sounds like Dexter from one of those late '40s Savoy or Dial sessions. Can't place anyone else.

4) I think it's Griff on tenor but who's the alto?

5) Eastern mode, can't place the instrument, nor the tenor & trumpet.

6) Cecil Payne on bari? No idea of trumpet player.

7) This one I got pretty quickly. Track #5 on this:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:8t63mpmd9f3o

8) I dig this track. Live session. Is that Idrees Sulieman on tp?

9) Can't place tenor or trumpet or the finger snapper.

10) "If they asked me" I could listen to this all day without positively id'g the vibes player other than to say there's a Bags influence, but I don't think it's him.

11) Very familiar boppish tune from the '50s. But damn if the tenor player doesn't sound like Harold Land who's already made an appearance on this disc. Trumpet player reminds me of Bill Hardman but I don't think it's him, not "chirpy" enough.

12) Enjoyed this but unable to hazard a guess as to the alto and soprano.

13) Bass feature but NMCOT.

As you can see, I'm not very good at id'g bassists which evidently has been your

"theme" throughout both discs. Anyway, a lot of fun. Guess I'll go see what's already been id'd.

[Rosco]

I will not click that link on track 7...

I will not click that link on track 7...

I will not click that link on track 7...

I will not...

[Rosco]

Ha! Just listened to track 7 and realised who it is...

[Rosco]

Trcak 5 from here.

That was driving me nuts.

Don't know why I'd convinced myself it was Lee Morgan on trumpet. When I listened today it was obvious (Probably helped that Martyjazz hipped me to it not being Lee at all... )

[Jim R]

Finally got a chance to get through this (only one time through so far). Overall, very enjoyable, with some familiar favorites, some mysterious puzzles, and only a few things I didn't care for. Here are some rumbling, bumbling, stumbling remarks...

1. Don’t think I’ve ever heard this before. I like it, although I might have preferred more melodic content. The changes are based on “All The Things You Are”, and they’re elongated, in effect forming what would be a slow ballad structure. Can’t identify who’s playing... at least not yet.

2. As on disc 1, another classic BN session not in that late-50’s to late 60’s range that garners more attention these days. This is the alternate take (track 8 on the RVG): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...05LANM?v=glance

3. Got this. Track 6: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ance&vi=samples

4. I used to own this Riverside session, but let go of it some years back. It had me stumped at first as a result, but recognizing Johnny Griffin (no doubt about that for me), I figured it has to be from this session: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...000Z5W?v=glance I don’t think JG made any other recordings with this instrumentation (at least not back in the 50’s).

6. Liked it, but no ideas so far.

7. Recognized Brownie pretty easily... and Harold Land. This is track 5 from: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...0046NG?v=glance

8, 9. See #6.

10. “I Could Write A Book”. Something about the rhythm section put me in the mind of Cannonball, which made me wonder if this could be Victor Feldman on vibes. I think that's probably wrong, but was my first instinct.

11. Wow, this is nice. I don’t recognize the theme... and the recording sounds kind of modern in relation to the style. The tenor sounds like Harold Land... maybe one of his 70’s quintet outings.

12. Not really my thing, but good

13. Have to admit- I was never that keen on Jimi Hendrix. Interesting, though.

Once again, thanks a bunch, Bill. Looking forward to reading more about these two discs.

[Jim R]

Was just spinning track 10 again, and it suddenly dawned on me... I own this. It's track 6 from this fine CD: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...192604?v=glance

I'm definitely a fan of this group, and have wished for more of their albums to get released on CD (a boxed set would be perfect).

[JSngry]

Sleep be damned - ONWARD!!!!

TRACK ONE - "Even More Of The Things You Could Be If You Slowed down The Changes". Don't know. Bassist has very good chops, less than consistent pitch, to put it mildly, which makes me think of Rufus Reid, he of the shaky upper end pitch. Nice piano. Good playing, but it doesn't necessarily stick to my ribs.

TRACK TWO - A cruelly titled piece if ever there was one... Classic stuff, Hard Bop in the process of shaking loose from BeBop. Not much more to add.

TRACK THREE - Dexter on Dial from LA, w/Melba Liston. "Mischievous Lady" I think it is. Again, nothing to add. It'sDexter in prime early form. What more is there to say?

TRACK FOUR - Mr. Ed's bassist of choice, one could say if one was aware. Jenkins & Griff are the horns, the latter in unmistakable form. Good side, but I sure wish that the leader had positioned himself better in the later years. Oh well, he was who he was, and he did what he did, and he's a serious favorite for life.

TRACK FIVE - Ahmed Abdul-Malik, gotsta be. I only have his RCA side, and this ain't it. Been curious about his later stuff with Tommy Turrentine, of which I'm guessing that this is an example. If so, I'll be picking some up! I was in an "Arabic-jazz" band for a while back in the late 80s, and we did stuff like this, maybe a little harder core on the Arabic element. Had live belly dancers on some of the shows, too!. Actually did this tune, in fact, although I'm pretty sure it was thought of as a "traditional" thing. I like this, yeah. Not fully "organic" by any means, but for the time, there's no way it could've been. You gotta start somewhere, ya' know?

TRACK SIX - Ok, I missed Cecil Payne on Marty's BFT, and, like Jug, I'm not missing him again! He sounds old but still spry. Good for him! When I heard the tenor, I figured it had to be Eric Alexander, nobody else sounds that much George coleman-derived, and found THIS ALBUM. If that's Alexander, and not the other tenorist which AMG lists as on the session, hey - he sounds pretty good here. Derivative, but not oppressively so, which is how I usually hear him. Actually, much the same could be said about the entire band, if you wanna be hardass about it. Didn't know that John Ore was still alive in 1996. Good for him too! Good for all of us, in fact, this is good harmless fun for everybody! YEA FUN!

TRACK SEVEN - Not only can you hear the early Lee in Clifford's playing here, you can hear his composing style here. Lee wrote the same tune a lot of different ways, and a lot of them come from here. And I sure likes me some Harold Land! Yet again, not much to say about the classics. They're classics for good reason, and that's all anybody needs to know. If they don't know it, they'll figure it out. If they don't figure it out eventually, hey, fuck'em and move on. It's a big world.

TRACK EIGHT - GREAT tune! Tells a story, both in the melody and with the changes, and that's what I look for in a tune above all else. Too bad the bass tone is so shitty. Sounds like Ron Carter on helium. And happy pills. I could almost go for late Blue Mitchell as the trumpeter. Almost. The tenorist has that Newark thing happening, splitting the difference between Wayne & Hank. No idea who any of these players are, and the bassist's pitch is almost as erratic as his tone is fucked up, but he grooves in spite of it al. More power to him! My guess is that these are players who I don't usually listen (and with good reason, probably) to who took a great tune, got into it, and made me listen to them with pleasure, with equally good reason.

TRACK NINE - Thought it was going to be corny with the handclaps and all, but no, thankfully. Turned out to be a pretty interesting thing. Tenor is VERY familiar sounding, but no names jump out. It's not J.R., is it? Or Ira? Trumpet is intriguing, like he/she is more out-leaning than they're letting on. Drummer is like a sloppy Blakey & Philly combined, in a good way, more or less. Personality, that's what it is! Bassist has that Wilbur thing happening, if only in small doses. It's gonna drive me crazy until I find out who this is, and then it's gonna drive me crazy that I didn't get it. Oh well...

TRACK TEN - "I Could Write A Book", obviously. Unobtrusive and pleasant, a deadly combination, sometimes. Nothing WRONG, though. It's just that life is short sometimes. I think that THIS is it. Pretty nice, actually, just nothing to build a lifestyle around, which is cool.

TRACK ELEVEN - I hear Harold Land again. And not much else. After a while, all ii-V tunes kinda blend into a blur (or vice-versa), and the patterns become too evident. That's where I'm at now, after listening to both discs "analytically" back-to-back straight through. My problem to be sure. Is this a Counce thing w/Frank butler? I keep meaning to get into that group, and I will, I promise. Trumpeter was having a rough day, eh? Oh well, it happens.

TRACK TWELVE - Hey, no ii-V redundancy here! But patterns still...Could be a late 70s McCoy Milestone. Or not. Altoist sounds a little rigid rhythmically, sopranoist less so. Something of that ilk, though, if not of that time exactly. No doubt better than I'm in the mood for right now.

TRACK THIRTEEN - Oh shit. I've heard this, or something very much like it, might even own it, but hell if I can remember who/what it is. All I can say about this is - why not?

Still not sleepy, but very tired anyways. The music's better than some of what I said might imply. Thanks for sharing!

[Stereojack]

1. A variation on “All the Things You Are” – might this be Sam Jones? Pianist reminiscent of Barry Harris.

2. “Turnpike” – J. J. Johnson! A real cooker, great trumpet from Brownie, can’t remember the tenor. Jimmy Heath, maybe? The always masterful Mr. Johnson on bone, Horace on piano, I’d say.

3. This sounds like early Dexter – the only session I can think of with this front line was on Dial. A nice tune – “Mischievous Lady”? Melba Liston on bone?

4. Some nice breezy alto, with props to Bird. Early Frank Morgan? I like the piano, nicely executed ideas. Dammit, I know this tenor player, but am drawing a blank!

5. I’m pretty sure this is Ahmed Abdul-Malik, one of those East-Meets-West things. The oud (?) solo is nice. The trumpet finds himself in unfamiliar territory harmonically, and resorts to conventional licks a few times. Richard Williams? Ahmed switches to bass during the trumpet solo, and the other bassist takes a bowed solo. A nice tenor solo, is it Budd Johnson?

6. I dunno, this seemed like a mess to me. A dumb tune, sloppily played by the ensemble, and then they go into the blowing which has nothing to do with the head. I wanna say Charles Davis on bari, but I’m not sure. OK trumpet solo, nothing special. Again, a tenor that sounds familiar, possibly Johnny Griffin? The pianist tries hard, but seems at a loss for ideas in this modal universe. In places he reminds me of McCoy, but McCoy is usually more elegant. I like the bass player’s full sound, the strumming thing makes me think that it’s Jimmy Garrison. Nice drummer, good thoughtful solo, and then back into that dumb Scottish tune.

7. This I loved! Very Horace Silver-ish. Superb trumpet solo!!! The ideas just flow out. At times I’m thinking Blue Mitchell, at other times Lee Morgan. The tenor could be Junior Cook. Might this be one of the records that came out under Blue’s or Junior’s name featuring Horace’s band without Horace? Piano seems to be Barry Harris.

8. Perhaps it’s the recording, but I’m not thrilled with the bassist’s sound here – a little too rubber-bandish, if you know what I mean. Can’t name the trumpet, but the tenor sounds like Clifford Jordan to me.

9. I believe that this is the Red Mitchell-Harold Land group. That would be Carmell Jones on trumpet, Frank Strazzeri, piano.

10. I Could Write a Book. The vibist has a nice ringing tone a la Bags, but I’m gonna say Lem Winchester.

11. Again, a familiar tenor, have we already heard him today? The trumpet’s tone reminds me of Kenny Dorham a little, can’t place anybody for certain. Nice drum breaks.

12. Now this really sounds like McCoy Tyner, possibly fron one of his Milestone LP’s? I love the Impulse & Blue Note records, but have to confess that I’m less familiar with the Milestones overall. Sonny Fortune on alto?

13. A wonderful capper to this fine BFT! Funky bowed bass – don’t know who it is.

Some really nice selections – eager to find out who some of them are!

[Stereojack]

9. I believe that this is the Red Mitchell-Harold Land group. That would be Carmell Jones on trumpet, Frank Strazzeri, piano.

11. Again, a familiar tenor, have we already heard him today? The trumpet’s tone reminds me of Kenny Dorham a little, can’t place anybody for certain. Nice drum breaks.

←

On first listen, in the car, I recognized Harold Land right away, and figured that given the bass theme, this was probably from the Mitchell-Land album. A few days later, writing my comments, I couldn't remember which track that was, and wrongly attributed #9, when it should've been #11! #9 has got the tenor & bass stating the theme, which made sense for this band, although the tenor on #11 is clearly Harold Land, now that I'm awake. Now I have no idea who #9 is. Redfaced...

And not getting Brownie!!! At least I recognized that it was a good trumpet player (understatement).

[mikeweil]

Okay, let's go for the overflow .... Again, all this was written at first listen without peeking, AMGing or whatever - just plain memory as basic resource.

Track 1: I probably know this plucker, but can't determine him right now ..... nice, but doesn't move me too much. Some familiar pianist, too, I suppose, it all faintly reminds me of some late 1970's Prestige sessions Barry Harris did.

Track 2: If my memory serves me right, the J.J.Johnson Blue Note session with Clifford Brown. Can't recall who played the bass on it. Classic stuff, good example for fast walkin', for sure. I prefer more relaxed tempos, although they do this very well.

Track 3: Gene Ammons? He had some bad bass players in the band for his early Prestige sessions. Swings hard and serves its purpose. Like it!

Track 4: It's always hard for me to guess these hard bop altoists. Sounds like a Prestige RVG engineered session. Like the tenor best on this track.

Track 5: Oh - I have that one - jazz for belly dancers! The music sounds like the name of the bassist suggests. What became of him, BTW - have no idea what became of him after these sessions and his tenure with Monk; did he die early?

There's one thing you can hear on this track: The dumbeg drummer plays straight on the beat, whereas bass and jazz drums (Andrew Cyrille!) play slightly ahead of the beat - at one point they almost loose each other. Calo Scott was a fantastic cellist!!!!!! Had half of this CD on LP and bought that right away when it was reissued on CD - highly recommended for any fan of jazz oriental.

Track 6: I never before heard that one - I would remember a march opening like this. If this didn't sound more recent, I'd guess Leo Parker, but so ..... is this Cecil Payne in a hard blowing mood? Excellent tenor again. No idea who the rest are.

Track 7: I know that trumpet player ...... tenor too .... can't get them right now - very interesting. Who is this?

Track 8: Awful up front pick up bass sound - you hear the attack on the strings way too much. It's hard for me to enjoy this good piece of music because of this bass sound ... a record I would sell for that exact reason. He has nice ideas, an original. Would like to hear him without that dreaded pickup! The others are a little too pedestrian for my taste, although they all are in good blowing spirits.

Track 9: Very engaged, spirited playing, excellent tenor! No idea who they are.

Track 10: With all likelihood that's from one of Milt Jackson's Pablo albums. Nothing extraordinary, but nice. No idea who the sidemen are.

Track 11: I know that theme, and the tenor ..... arghhh!

Track 12: No idea. Spirited players all the way.

Track 13: Hah! Solo bass rendition of a Jimi Hendrix tune! Wild! What else is on this CD? Who is this?

All I can say after all of this: More bass!!!!

[mikeweil]

I wanted to kick myself real hard for not recognizing # 7, but then, what shall I sit upon before the computer screen to read the others' guesses ........ -_-

[tooter]

1. Based on “All the Things You Are” – I know it and have it but that won’t change a thing. Bass player leader added his name to the tune title.

2. Know the tune – “T” – but not this version. The players I’m sure I should know but can’t dredge up any names yet.

3. No ideas

4. Nice but still no clue.

5. Indian instrument? – not up on this kind of thing. I thought of Joe Harriott and Indo-Jazz Fusions but line-up is wrong. I usually keep away from these hybrids but I liked this nevertheless.

6. Hazard a very uncertain guess at Cecil Payne on baritone but no names come to mind for the others. Bagpipe music? Scotch…?

7. Don’t know.

8. Ditto.

9. Ditto.

10. The tune is no mystery anyway – “I Could Write a Book”. I don’t think I’ve heard this before. I began to suspect it was Milt but then thought not. Doesn’t sound anything like John Lewis on piano anyhow. Looking forward to finding out who these players are.

11. Again the tune sounds familiar but no guesses for the players, even the tenor who I think I’ve heard many times.

12. No ideas on this one either.

13. Out with a whimper..

Greatly enjoyed this disc, Bill. All tracks well within my personal ambit. Sure I should have been able to identify more but not too much in the mood lately – not BFT fatigue. But thanks a lot for one I can regularly play as it is.

[tooter]

Is the tune at 2. by the trombonist the same tune as "Thelonious" by Monk, as on "Underground" and many others? Sounds very like it to me. Some tunes that he wrote, or co-wrote, - "Round Midnight" and "Ruby, My Dear" spring to mind - sound completely different to most of his output. But this tune sounds as if it really could be Monk maybe.

[Jim R]

Yes, the A sections on "turnpike" and "thelonious" are almost identical. I don't know if there are any interesting historical footnotes to this, but Bob Blumenthal did mention the similarity in his 2001 notes for the J.J. CD.

[tooter]

Thanks, Jim - I find these "coincidences" interesting.

[Dan Gould]

Liked this disc a bit more than #1, which is saying something, cuz there wasn't much wrong with #1 in the first place. Is Track 1 one of those Cedar Walton - David Williams collaborations? 2) and 7) were distressingly familiar sounding, but no names came to mind. I'm sure I'll go D'Oh when the answers are given.

My only NMCOT track was #13.

Otherwise, nice set, Bill. Thanks for putting it together.

[catesta]

Okay, here goes disc 2.

1. Bassist is tearing it up. Tune seems somewhat familiar but I can't place it.

Can't place piano either. Maybe Sonny Clark?

2. I do believe this to be "Turnpike". Clifford Brown is burning through it, with the eminent J.J., and Jimmy Heath. Great stuff!

3. Definitely from the earlier days. No real guesses.

4. Nice one here.

5. Interesting. I really started to dig when the trumpet kicked in. I don't know how much of this I would listen to on a regular basis, but this tune was kickin' okay.

Charlie Rouse on tenor?

6. Crazy! I can't remember hearing this. I suppose the baritone is Cecil Payne and maybe Pepper Adams.

7. Love it! Here is more Clifford this time doing track 5 from this.

Timeless!

8. Nice trumpet, nice tenor. Cedar Walton on piano?

9. Not much for the finger snapping, unless it's me doing it.

Crap, who is the tenor? This one grew on me. Liked it just fine.

10. I need to be a little sharper with the vibes. This one is okay with me. I've got no clue on the players, no doubt I should.

11. Harold Land, no? Harold Land, yes. Unless I'm missing it, it's not rfom any of the Land leader dates I have. Can't place thr trumpet.

12. Piano is maybe, Tyner or Walton. I really don't know, but I'm into it.

13. Somebody doing solo bass on what I think is "Foxy Lady".

Maybe, it's Bill himself?

Again, thanks for including me.

A most enjoyable set of BFTs.

Edited September 25, 2005 by catesta

[Noj]

Thanks again Upright Bill!

Disc Two:

1. Buster Williams?

2. Miles Davis? I know I have this one, just can't place it.

3. Ellington?

4. Hank Mobley?

5. Mingus? I dig the Middle Eastern sound. Trumpet plays a lick I know I've heard before, maybe on a Horace Silver or Blakey tune...Lee Morgan maybe? Multiple bass players?

6. Donald Byrd?

7. Horace Silver?

8. Jackie McLean comes to mind for some reason.

9. Joe Henderson maybe?

10. Milt Jackson?

11. Sonny Rollins?

12. This is different, I'm not sure what to think. Very nice. Unique piano, really bangs around on the keys. The drummer is amazing.

13. Holy smokes! Is that Foxy Lady?! Maybe not, but this thing rocks!

Now, on to finally reading the responses...