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Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane


Cliff Englewood

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They'll recoup $250,000 with no problem ... over time. It will sell very well in the early days, then drop off but will remain steady and healthy. Sort of like Kind Of Blue.

I applied rigorous statistical analysis tecnhiques to determine this. Same techniques I used that lead me to recommend that Sony postpone the Cellar Door Box indefinitely.

Bertrand.

Edited by bertrand
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Guest youmustbe

Wilbur Ware makes such a difference to this music, that's why I prefer the 3 studio cuts.

My favorite Monk record is Five By Monk By Five mainly because of the fantastic soloing by Thad Jones. Like Griffin, he doesn't fit into Monk's patterns.

As terrific as Trane is on the live stuff, it's too similar to Monk's 'thang' for me.

But, as I've said before, I hope it sells a ton, it certainly deserves to.

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I've been listening to this at least once or twice a day since I picked it up on Wednesday (even listened once all the way through on headphones in the store before I bought it - just cause I was so excited to hear it!)

Frankly, I see where most everyone is coming regarding whether they like this more or less than some of the other stuff. I don't know if I like it better than the three studio tracks - those three tracks were hugely influential in getting me into jazz in the first place, and I could probably sing them note for note, so it's at such a deep level I have a hard time comparing them to much of anything. That said, I am so thankful that this is now in my collection - whether or not it's better, it's an incredibly complex, nuanced, and just plain fun performance, three masters (i only omit malik because it's a little hard to hear him in the mix) going all out, playing with familiar material like silly putty.

Similarly, I see what you all are saying about Griffin v. Coltrane as a Monk foil. I don't really have a favorite - I find both of them excellent interpreters of this stuff, and am glad I don't have to choose. Ditto that for Charlie Rouse. The most I can say is to note how different all three of them were before and after there time with Monk. I would say the essential turning point in their careers, where they really came into their own.

Thanks to all the people involved in getting this out to the public. I too hope it sells in the six figures.

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...no, I thought all the liners were lame except for the "So What" guy and Ira's comments.  The rest were just adding nothing.

I just used the office paper cutter to slice Baraka's page right out of the booklet. It feels cleaner now.

To be honest, I just skipped right over his and didn't even read them. His being right up front is just silliness.

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...no, I thought all the liners were lame except for the "So What" guy and Ira's comments.  The rest were just adding nothing.

I just used the office paper cutter to slice Baraka's page right out of the booklet. It feels cleaner now.

Evonce, what a great idea!

By the way, what are these studio tracks people are talking about? I haven't listened to the whole cd yet, but isn't the whole thing from the live concert?

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I was on a 3 hour flight this am and listened through this a couple times on headphones (and some tracks 5-6 times).

DAMN! GOOD LORD!

This music, especially the 2nd set, justs grabs you and dares you not to enjoy the hell out of yourself. The two things that really struck me are how joyous and downright funky this music is. You can really sense the fun the musicians must have had that night - the whole thing sounds like an evening of good natured trash talking among very good, very clever friends.

I could hardly resist the urge to dance in the aisles or otherwise just whoop it up! To me this stuff is deeply soulful and wickedly bluesy. I am surprised there was not any hollerin' from the crowd (but I guess it was a charity crowd).

Listen to Bye-Ya, Blue Monk, both versions of Epistrophy - both Monk and Trane are absolutely killing in their solos and interplay. This is goosebumps, tears of joy stuff - and damn, isn't that what you want from music!.

From both an intellectual and an ass-shaking perspective, this music is deeply satisfying :tup:tup:tup

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btw, has anyone noticed there are a ton of Monk live shows available for download here:

http://www.theloniousrecords.com/Merchant2...tegory_Code=MP3

interesting, a bunch of bootlegs being sold for $9.99 each (MP3 files) by Thelonious Records ...

Interesting. Great idea for an artist (or ones heirs) to distribute boots in such a fashion - though I'm not sure if, by doing so, they are still considered "boots;" I wonder if royalties are paid? -_-

Still, $10 each for mp3s seems way overpriced, especially since, among trading circles, no money is exchanged and lossless files are required. I think I'll stick to dime...

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That's wild!  I have all but one of those . . . in disc form.

Yeah, Lewis Porter made a comment in the Carnegie Hall notes about two undated unreleased Monk/Trane tracks being available at Monk Zone. I could not find them, but did find this stuff.

Update - found them - the tunes are Nutty and Ruby, My Dear. No recording data, but sure sounds like a club. Otherwise pretty good sound quality.

http://monkzone.com/silent/monkzone.htm

Go to Webcasts and scroll down to "LISTEN TO THELONIOUS PLAYING NUTTY AND RUBY, MY DEAR WITH JOHN COLTRANE (WORLD PREMIERE)"

Edited by Eric
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Guest youmustbe

Trane didn't make it for 2 weeks at the Five Spot in 57 with Monk, and Sonny replaced him for the 2 weeks. A couple of writers who were there told me that after hearing Sonny, they didn't go back to hear Trane when he came back, Sonny was so perfect with Monk.

All I'm saying is that it's great stuff, but it's not the Holy Grail. However, I saw people when Trane played with his own groups jump to their feet and raise their hands, almost like at a revival meeting, or people get up and shake their fists at him in anger as he played. he had such an affect on people, and I'm glad that he still, from the posts, does.

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For me, as on the "Diz and Bird at Town Hall" Uptown, there's a hard-to-define but potent "present-ness" about the music on this disc. Well, actually the "present-ness" on the Uptown isn't that hard to define; we're right there at one of the earliest moments that bop hit the world at full force -- and by "the world" I mean not only the audience but the also minds and souls of the men who were making the music, i.e. it's like they heard or were hearing their thing more than a little bit anew each time it emerged and was heard by others, match to tinder, and this night was a conflagration. With the Monk-Trane concert, what makes up that sense of "present-ness" is more elusive, I think because whatever it was or was all about didn't crystallize completely in the course of the music's history or didn't do so for that long. But there are lots of moments here that tell me that something very powerful and "other" was in the air -- e.g. during Monk's solo on "Evidence" he gets rolling in such an unstoppable linear manner (a la his solo on the Prestige "Little Rootie Tootie"), and it's at once so bold and beautiful and so ... I don't know, naked or unguarded in its trust or hope that the wholeness it was and was proposing would or could be met in kind by enough of the world in which Monk was making this thing, that when I heard it, tears came to my eyes. I mean, Monk would not EXPOSE himself as a man in his music this openly ever again, I think, and maybe he had never done so as openly ever before. I mean, it's like Monk, Trane, Wilson, and Abdul-Malik are playing in the kitchen of Monk's apartment! And saying, in effect, Why isn't the rest of the world like this place? Right here we've got it all -- the juice, the bottle, and the stopper.

Larry Kart

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Peter, I'm glad yours arrived. I haven't bought a copy yet. But that's because I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy weeks back and have been listening to that several times a week. (My package from cduniverse with the Morton box set did arrive today though!)

Personally this is my FAVORITE of the recordings of Monk with Trane. As mentioned above, the joy of playing and playing together comes through unmistakbly here. And that really does make this an exciting listen. I love how clearly the beautiful piano Monk got to play was recorded and you can hear how it reponds to his unique touch and how it resounds in the hall. I love that! One of my favorite RECORDINGS of Monk on piano. I also love how clearly you can hear Shadow Wilson, who really supports everyone so well.

I agree with youmustbe that this is not rhe "holy grail" (I'm more excited ultimately by the Diz and Bird at Town Hall release and sort of feel that this little record company Uptown showed eeryone how to make a monumental jazz release). But I'm also convinced this is a successful reissue that may even bring newbies into the fold. And that may cause oldsters to jazz to feel like newbies with renewed excitement.

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Guest youmustbe

One of the things no one mentions about Monk, is that live, despite the mystique of jazz being 'cool', he was so exilirating. I first saw him live with Ore, Dunlop and Rouse, and he just took you along for the ride, effortlessly. His music was 'happy' yet 'inside'. A rare thing.

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In all seriousness, I think Trane and Monk didn't, until this newly-released set, have the opportunity on wax to spread their wings. The Riversides and the Jazzland are just a little taste of what the Carnegie Hall concert (and probably other as-yet-unreleased live gigs) offers us. Namely, a window into how Trane was advancing his harmonic conceptions through working with Monk.

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Guest youmustbe

Not to be a bore...bit Orin Keepnews said the Jazzland tracks were recorded AFTER Trane left Monk, and was already maybe with Miles! In 1958. If true, your 'theory' goes out the window.

So, let's stop overanylizing this and just enjoy this terrific music, like the Bird Diz Town Hall.

I just wish something being recorded today would bring 'tears' to all your eyes and this much excitement.

I'm all into digging the past, but there's a touch of necrophilia in some of these posts.

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Not to be  a bore...bit Orin Keepnews said the Jazzland tracks were recorded AFTER Trane left Monk, and was already maybe with Miles! In 1958.  If true, your 'theory' goes out the window.

So, let's stop overanylizing this and just enjoy this terrific music, like the Bird Diz Town Hall. 

I just wish something being recorded today would bring 'tears' to all your eyes and this much excitement.

I'm all into digging the past, but there's a touch of necrophilia in some of these posts.

I don't know think it's nostalgia or rewriting history here. This is just plain great music by great musicians. And it points out so many shortcomings of today's music, thus the lack of modern day tears. Name something today that has this kind of delivery and I'll be the first one in line to buy it. Like Barry Harris said, there's always a golden age to every kind of music. And this a golden age treasure. :g

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