monkboughtlunch

Unissued/Unreleased Grant Green

211 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, monkboughtlunch said:

Would these unissued tapes have been torched in the 2008 Universal fire?  Or did Concord acquire Vee Jay records?  

you can buy them ;)

 

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Wow!  Green's first recording survived.  Has Resonance or Cuscuna (Mosaic) got wind of this? 

 

tommydean.jpg

By the way, does anyone know the performances dates of the 1969 London and Paris video recordings?   If Green was already under contract to Blue Note (I think Carryin On was recorded in October 1969 -- so he was presumably under contract by that time), then Blue Note Records may own the rights to Green's  Paris and London performances.  I'd presume the Paris entity that taped the show owns the rights to the video recording itself.  It would be cool if Blue Note could work a deal to get access to the master 2" quadruplex tapes and issue a video release and companion compact disc.  From the bootleg dub Greg Green is selling on payloadz you can tell the audio of the Paris concert was very well recorded (great mono recording).

Edited by monkboughtlunch

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1 hour ago, monkboughtlunch said:

Wow!  Green's first recording survived.  Has Resonance or Cuscuna (Mosaic) got wind of this? 

 

tommydean.jpg

By the way, does anyone know the performances dates of the 1969 London and Paris video recordings?   If Green was already under contract to Blue Note (I think Carryin On was recorded in October 1969 -- so he was presumably under contract by that time), then Blue Note Records may own the rights to Green's  Paris and London performances.  I'd presume the Paris entity that taped the show owns the rights to the video recording itself.  It would be cool if Blue Note could work a deal to get access to the master 2" quadruplex tapes and issue a video release and companion compact disc.  From the bootleg dub Greg Green is selling on payloadz you can tell the audio of the Paris concert was very well recorded (great mono recording).

iit seems that the 1969 gigs were part of the "newport in europe" package. the newport all-stars played ronnie scott's on oct 24 1969 and paris nov 1st 1969. although there is no mention of grant or burrell, those dates seem likely. i wonder how grant ended up with that tour and what his status was. 

https://books.google.de/books?id=Xv4wRvu2qT0C&pg=PA238&lpg=PA238&dq=jazz+expo+london+1969&source=bl&ots=C_6YN_8YBq&sig=Fr76MwU7-gtLyCNzy64GLAkzC2U&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih392xkt7SAhXDvRQKHaLwB4wQ6AEINTAD#v=onepage&q=jazz%20expo%20london%201969&f=false

 

the ronnie scotts video is mentioned here. the program aired dec. 26 1969:

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/bf9ee317058243769867e2417565d199

this is a preview for the 1970 "jazz scene" and a further search reveals this interesting item:

Presenting each week some of the international jazz stars recorded at Europe's Number One Jazz Club. 
Tonight Ronnie Scott introduces: The Charlie Shavers Quartet The Grant Green Trio 
Champion Jack Dupree 
Buddy Rich and his Orchestra 

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=0&q=jazz+scene&media=all&yf=1923&yt=2009&mf=1&mt=12&tf=00%3A00&tt=00%3A00#search

 

so maybe there is another 45 min set by grant? 

 

 

Edited by hgweber

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Great detective work!  If recorded in October / November, then Blue Note / EMI likely own rights to Green's performances on the 1969 videos.

I've wondered if more videotape footage of Green survives from the London gig.  Your analysis suggests more might have been recorded.

Did "Newport in Europe" perform on TV in more countries than London and France?  If they swung through more countries, perhaps there are more pro-shot 2 inch videotapes that have survived of Green.

Is Resonance the best label to release this sort of stuff?  Seems like Blue Note is dead in terms of publishing archival material.

Edited by monkboughtlunch

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1 hour ago, hgweber said:

yes, these recordings do exist. 

 

is there a setlist for this concert?

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59 minutes ago, monkboughtlunch said:

is there a setlist for this concert?

dunno, i don't have it. i contacted the trader a few years back and he was incredibly rude to say the least.

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http://www.ina.fr/video/RAF02011061/pre-festival-de-jazz-a-antibes-video.html

http://fresques.ina.fr/reperes-mediterraneens/fiche-media/Repmed00380/le-festival-de-jazz-d-antibes-juan-les-pins.html

There's full length film of Aretha Franklin and Lionel Hampton from this festival. Surely the cameras were rolling for Grant Green. However I think he performed on the same night as Archie Shepp. There was an album made of Shepp's performance that night. Maybe if no film of Shepp exists of his performance they didn't film the GG, Stan Getz, John Surman Archie Shepp night? INA France is the key. I suspect that''s where the Paris 69 footage has leaked from. 

Edited by robertoart

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Who is the drummer in the photo with Grant and Larry Young. Maybe Joe Chambers?

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5 hours ago, robertoart said:

INA France is the key. I suspect that''s where the Paris 69 footage has leaked from. 

Wikipedia indicates INA has a search tool.  Has anyone already queried the tool to see what Green material exists?   ina.fr

------

The Institut national de l'audiovisuel (or INA, French for National Audiovisual Institute) is a repository of all French radio and television audiovisual archives. 

Since 2006, it has allowed free online consultation on a website called ina.fr with a search tool indexing 100,000 archives of historical programs, for a total of 20,000 hours.

Edited by monkboughtlunch

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15 hours ago, monkboughtlunch said:

Great detective work!  If recorded in October / November, then Blue Note / EMI likely own rights to Green's performances on the 1969 videos.

I've wondered if more videotape footage of Green survives from the London gig.  Your analysis suggests more might have been recorded.

Did "Newport in Europe" perform on TV in more countries than London and France?  If they swung through more countries, perhaps there are more pro-shot 2 inch videotapes that have survived of Green.

Is Resonance the best label to release this sort of stuff?  Seems like Blue Note is dead in terms of publishing archival material.

the newport in europe dates can be found here:

https://books.google.de/books?id=Xv4wRvu2qT0C&pg=PA238&lpg=PA238&dq=jazz+expo+london+1969&source=bl&ots=C_6YN_8YBq&sig=Fr76MwU7-gtLyCNzy64GLAkzC2U&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih392xkt7SAhXDvRQKHaLwB4wQ6AEINTAD#v=onepage&q=jazz%20expo%20london%201969&f=false

i assume that the tv stations actually do own the copyrights. personally i don't think the paris session is good enough for official release. don lamond is a total mismatch. and i wish you love is a trainwreck, ruined by kessel and ridley up to the very last note where they leave grant hanging in mid air, until kessel finally finds the most inappropriate ending chord (A over grant's Eb), much to the dismay of grant.

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3 hours ago, hgweber said:

the newport in europe dates can be found here:

https://books.google.de/books?id=Xv4wRvu2qT0C&pg=PA238&lpg=PA238&dq=jazz+expo+london+1969&source=bl&ots=C_6YN_8YBq&sig=Fr76MwU7-gtLyCNzy64GLAkzC2U&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih392xkt7SAhXDvRQKHaLwB4wQ6AEINTAD#v=onepage&q=jazz%20expo%20london%201969&f=false

i assume that the tv stations actually do own the copyrights. personally i don't think the paris session is good enough for official release. don lamond is a total mismatch. and i wish you love is a trainwreck, ruined by kessel and ridley up to the very last note where they leave grant hanging in mid air, until kessel finally finds the most inappropriate ending chord (A over grant's Eb), much to the dismay of grant.

To play devil's advocate, I think it is good enough for official release. It's the only pro-shot footage of Green playing straight ahead material known to be extant.  Green's playing is strong throughout and any sidemen snafus hardly sullies the value of the document. There is more material apparently with Burrell and Kessel.  Perhaps the a collection of the Burrell, Kessel and Green footage from London, Paris (and any other countries with surviving 2-inch videotapes from the tour) could be published. 

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8 hours ago, monkboughtlunch said:

Wikipedia indicates INA has a search tool.  Has anyone already queried the tool to see what Green material exists?   ina.fr

------

The Institut national de l'audiovisuel (or INA, French for National Audiovisual Institute) is a repository of all French radio and television audiovisual archives. 

Since 2006, it has allowed free online consultation on a website called ina.fr with a search tool indexing 100,000 archives of historical programs, for a total of 20,000 hours.

ina.fr is actually as easy to use as youtube or google (there's a search window at the top, you put in a name, press enter... some videos (beige symbol) are behind a paywall but you can see the beginning... for instance, a search for Art Blakey may lead you here

http://www.ina.fr/video/I09286002/art-blakey-et-les-jazz-messengers-whisper-not-video.html

at the top you can switch between audio and video (when both are available)... a search for grant green just leads to some strange item which has 21 seconds, doesn't play on my computer and says Stan Getz on the frontpage - so it's probably not essential...

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17 hours ago, bertrand said:

Who is the drummer in the photo with Grant and Larry Young. Maybe Joe Chambers?

JC Moses? What a great name. Other great names I like is Candy Finch and Hugh Walker :)

5 hours ago, monkboughtlunch said:

To play devil's advocate, I think it is good enough for official release. It's the only pro-shot footage of Green playing straight ahead material known to be extant.  Green's playing is strong throughout and any sidemen snafus hardly sullies the value of the document. There is more material apparently with Burrell and Kessel.  Perhaps the a collection of the Burrell, Kessel and Green footage from London, Paris (and any other countries with surviving 2-inch videotapes from the tour) could be published. 

Course it's good enough for official release. How Insensitive is sublime.

21 hours ago, monkboughtlunch said:

is there a setlist for this concert?

Yeah, Twenty odd minutes of High Heel Sneakers leaving the audience screaming in appreciation. 

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8 hours ago, robertoart said:

Yeah, Twenty odd minutes of High Heel Sneakers leaving the audience screaming in appreciation. 

Have you heard this?  Any other songs performed?

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3 hours ago, monkboughtlunch said:

Have you heard this?  Any other songs performed?

I think it's just High Heel Sneakers and Upshot. Probably from a French Radio broadcast of the concert from Antibes 1970. Great stuff! 

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On 17.3.2017 at 7:41 PM, monkboughtlunch said:

 

Did "Newport in Europe" perform on TV in more countries than London and France?  If they swung through more countries, perhaps there are more pro-shot 2 inch videotapes that have survived of Green.

 

here's what i got from the ruby braff discography:

newport all-stars:

oct 24 1969 ronnie scotts

oct 27  royal albert hall

oct 29  basel (burrell is mentioned)

nov 1   paris (ellington also played that night, could the guitar workshop really have played a 90 min set as well?)

nov 2 copenhagen

nov 3 or 4 (?) stockholm (burrell is mentioned)

nov 5 rotterdam

nov 8 berlin

so grant possibly appeared with the "guitar workshop"? what was the format of newport in europe? apparently there was a festival in london (jazz expo). did the guitar workshop travel along to the other venues? there is no mention of grant in the braff book. 

 

edit: the nov 1 in paris must have been something else. wasn't mobley also there with byas and shepp? 

Edited by hgweber

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21 hours ago, hgweber said:

here's what i got from the ruby braff discography:

newport all-stars:

oct 24 1969 ronnie scotts

oct 27  royal albert hall

oct 29  basel (burrell is mentioned)

nov 1   paris (ellington also played that night, could the guitar workshop really have played a 90 min set as well?)

nov 2 copenhagen

nov 3 or 4 (?) stockholm (burrell is mentioned)

nov 5 rotterdam

nov 8 berlin

so grant possibly appeared with the "guitar workshop"? what was the format of newport in europe? apparently there was a festival in london (jazz expo). did the guitar workshop travel along to the other venues? there is no mention of grant in the braff book. 

 

edit: the nov 1 in paris must have been something else. wasn't mobley also there with byas and shepp? 

Where was this 1969 color French Newport All Stars footage shot?

 

More color footage

 

Here's footage from Copenhagen -- also in color

 

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On 23.3.2017 at 4:52 PM, monkboughtlunch said:

Where was this 1969 color French Newport All Stars footage shot?

 

 

 

very interesting. there are three guitar amps ready for the guitar workshop. but it's not the same venue as the GG b/w video (and two different amps)

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On 3/24/2017 at 0:08 PM, hgweber said:

very interesting. there are three guitar amps ready for the guitar workshop. but it's not the same venue as the GG b/w video (and two different amps)

 

Isn't the bass player in that color clip the same one that played with Green in the Paris black and white video?

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1 hour ago, monkboughtlunch said:

the bass player

Larry Ridley.

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Same drummer too, Don Lamond. i think Barney Kessell's got the same suit on as well. Why no mention of GG in the Braff discog? Three amps set up? Maybe Grant didn't make those gigs? I seem to remember reading somewhere that Grant Green was a late call up for this tour when someone else cancelled? Maybe Herb Ellis or Charlie Byrd? Can't remember. Fascinating information anyway. And Grant backed it up the following year with a return visit by playing Antibes. 

Edited by robertoart

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ok, this is what we got so far:

in 1969 there was a package called "newport in europe". part of "newport in europe" package were the "newport allstars" and the "guitar workshop". we know that the color vid of the all-stars was shot in paris (wein speaks french on that tape). we see the stage also set up for the "guitar workshop". so at least one paris concert (possibly nov. 1st) was a double bill. we then have another (bigger?) venue in paris where the b/w vid was shot. but there is no hint that the allstars also played that gig (no vibes on stage). (date unkown)

earlier we got the color clip from ronnie scott's (edit: confirmed) and info from the bbc site that a GG trio video from ronnie scott did exist at some point. edit: oct 28.

we also know that both burrell and kessel were present in basel (oct 29) and stockholm (nov 3 or 4). does that mean that burrell played with the allstars because the guitar workshop was not scheduled there? basel was between london and paris so grant might at least have played there as well?

edit: grant falling in for farlow confirmed

 

what we need:

more general info on the fall 1969 newport in europe tour

photos or vids from the other newport allstars gigs to determine whether the stage was set up for the workshop as well.

a program from the jazz expo in london and the newport in paris festival.

programs from the other dates (berlin, rotterdam, etc)

Edited by hgweber

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