What is the best way to clean LPs?

[brownie]

Alfred, I was just being playful

Truth is I avoid cleaning new vinyl or old vinyl that are or remained clean. I am fortunate in having a lot of those.

As for unclean vinyls (I also have many of those), I usually clean them by using demineralised water and carefully cleaning the surfaces with an unsoiled smooth cloth. This works most of the time even if the clicks remain. A Nobel Prize should go to the person who invents the right declicking machine!

[jazzhound]

must reinterate my recommendation of Disc Doctor fluid and brushes. just took an original Saxophone Colossus from G to VG,VG+ playing condition. Strange but true!

Edited November 28, 2005 by jazzhound

[patricia]

As for unclean vinyls (I also have many of those),...

That gave me a smile, having an almost Biblical tone, much like the sections in the Bible which talk about leprosy.

[brownie]

As for unclean vinyls (I also have many of those),...

That gave me a smile, having an almost Biblical tone, much like the sections in the Bible which talk about leprosy.

Patricia, let's keep religion and the Bible out of this thread

[Guest]

On a serious note,

I've been using a SOFT toothbrush with mild soap and warm water in the sink for many years and the results can be exceptional. (brushing back and forth in the direction of the grooves, and sometimes with considerable vigor).

There are two major exceptions:

1) When the damage to the vinyl is beyond dust and dirt because the album has been played so many times, the diamond needle eventually damages the grooves.

2) When the "damage" is static electricity.

I have the old "Discwasher" system that includes the static gun, but never found it to work. My vinyl copy of Herbie Hancock's "Dedication" had static problems the day it was opened, and nothing has ever worked to get rid of it.

I try the toothbrush routine and if that doesn't work, that's as far as I go.

BTW - All the turntables now-a-days are for DJ's, what do you guys use? Mine is 30 years old and so are the Stanton 681EEE, and Shure V15 Type III cartridges and spare needles???

Rick

[Jim Alfredson]

VPI still makes some nice, albeit pricey, turntables. I have a VPI HW Jr. (I think that's what the model is) that is a great turntable. As I'm selling off the rest of my "audiophile" gear, the turntable is the only thing that I am definitely keeping.

[DrJ]

They're pricey but the VPI record cleaning machine (16.5) has been one of the best audio-related purchases I've ever made. If you clean a few dozen LPs in my opinion it's already paid for itself.

The huge advantage over the "DIY" cleaning methods that involve tubs of solution on the kitchen counter (which I used to use and I think work quite well if done carefully) is that it makes cleaning WAY less of a hassle - especially if you use something like the Record Research Lab (RRL) fluids - these are highly volatile, don't damage the record, and don't require a water rinse step - you just use a brush (the stock VPI one is fine IMHO) and then the VPI vacuum arm and you're done. Some other cleaning fluids that people like, e.g. Disc Doctor, require distilled water rinsing and that to me adds a huge hassle for very little reason given that the RRL stuff leaves no residue.

So using the VPI with RRL fluids, it takes me about 2 minutes to clean a record - and that's assuming I'm doing a first-time, deep clean (RRL has a deep cleaning fluid for this - you wouldn't need to do that step on a record you cleaned a while back and just want to remove new surface-type sediment from - that would take maybe a minute). One reason people don't clean records, I think, is the hassle factor with DIY methods - I know I used to dread/avoid it.

My advice to folks who are skeptical about cleaning records is to try it and then relisten to your vinyl. It's hard for me to imagine you won't hear improvements, assuming the record is in decent or better shape. If it's whipped, it's whipped, no cleaning will fix that. If nothing else you ought to notice a reduction in crackle and pop as you get all the grunge out of the groove. I personally think the vacuuming adds a lot of benefit above and beyond the fluids.

It's just common sense - you have this stylus mechanically tracing the groove, and there are things going on at the micrometer or smaller level that impact on tracking and, thus, sound, so grunge - certainly visible stuff - is most definitely going to impact on sound, usually in a bad way. By contrast I'm NOT a believer in cleaning CDs unless they skip - it's never passed the common sense test for me though I know people will swear by that too - I'm sure at some nanolevel it makes a difference but it's just not an audible one to me.

Couple other things to note:

1) Leaving grunge in the grooves accelerates both stylus and record wear - the latter being my main concern. Repeatedly playing a record that's really dirty will eventually cause permanent damage. But even records that look pretty clean usually are not - assuming you haven't cleaned them yourself. You should see the stuff that I drain out of my VPI fluid collecting tank (the place the vacuumed up fluid from the record goes). Usually it's an amber-looking fluid (the RRL fluids are crystal clear when applied!) with a bunch of chunks of debris floating in it. And that's after cleaning really well-cared for, NM used records and brand new audiophile pressings! I won't even describe what comes off used records that have been in the homes of smokers for years...lets just say laboratory rats run screaming! No way that stuff cannot impact on stylus tracking at the micro level. As another, quick and coarse gauge of how much you may need to clean your records: if you find that at the end of each side you have to remove a big debris/fuzzball from your stylus, your records are DEFINITELY in need of cleaning.

2) Brand new records really DO benefit from cleaning, at least that's what my ears tell me. Just carefully visually inspect one sometime near an incandescent bulb...they usually have all kinds of sediment and debris from the factory and there's also mold-growth suppressing chemicals that you can't see but that do coat the grooves and can impact on sound. Use the RRL deep cleaning fluid for brand new records on first cleaning and you'll be amazed at how much quieter and more "present" they sound. IMHO most brand new, out of the sleeve audiophile pressings sound crackly and veiled until properly cleaned, only then do they really shine sonically.

Edited December 2, 2005 by DrJ

[DrJ]

One last comment: for static electricity problems, I would suggest a soft dust-removing brush like the one made by Hunt (a British company I believe). It works like the old Decca brush but way less expensive. Every time I put a record on the table, I use this 3 rotations. It removes the dust that settles on the record while you're futzing around with your CD recorder settings, taking a swig of scotch (!), etc - and this is important if you don't want a fuzzball to accumulate at the tip of your stylus by the end of each side, which will most definitely cause a degradation in sound! - AND, just as importantly, it cuts down surface static electricity. If the static is real bad it won't completely remove it but it is greatly reduced. In dry climates record cleaning machines like the VPI can actually introduce some static (particularly if you over-use the vacuum - 2-3 rotations is plenty, more than that you start getting static) so this is invaluable, and it's a cheaper solution than the anti-static guns (which never made great sense to me and seem like one added step/hassle - you really should use a soft brush on the table with each play anyway, takes about 15 seconds).

[Alfred]

...

BTW - All the turntables now-a-days are for DJ's, what do you guys use? Mine is 30 years old and so are the Stanton 681EEE, and Shure V15 Type III cartridges and spare needles???

Rick

... what?!

[sidewinder]

Dr J - I have one of those British anti-static brushes. Not sure if it is made by Hunt but it has a foldable top handle, if that helps identifying it. I also use a Zerostat (1978 vintage, still going strong !) for LPs where there might be particular concern on the static.

I second everything that you said in your post on the VPI and the RRL cleaning fluids. I use both the deep cleanser (2 applications) followed by the regular stuff (2 applications) per side, applied with the VPI brush (no problem). The difference has been astonishing, particular to older pressings such as the heavy vinyl Blue Notes, Contemporaries, Esquires etc. There's a huge opening up of the sound, improved separation of the instruments and general improvement in 'finesse' that is at least the equivalent of a major cartridge upgrade. Worth every penny !

[andybleaden]

Discwasher................you actually said discwasher not dishwasher...................

I wrote it down wrong and they have finished the rinse cycle along with my spaghetti and look a little 'bendy'

Will an iron work to make em straight again?

[Daniel A]

How do you actually use a brush? I can think of two ways, neither of which produces entirely satisfying results. Either you hold the brush in a fixed position over a rotating disc for a couple of turns and then release it. The problem is that this leaves a string of dust at the point where the brush was lifted up. Or you could try and drag the dust out towards the edge of the record (which is till rotating). However, by doing this it seems as if most of the collected dust is only pushed right into the grooves of the LP when the brush moves semi-vertically across them.

Are there better methods which I'm unaware of?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

How do you actually use a brush? I can think of two ways, neither of which produces entirely satisfying results. Either you hold the brush in a fixed position over a rotating disc for a couple of turns and then release it. The problem is that this leaves a string of dust at the point where the brush was lifted up. Or you could try and drag the dust out towards the edge of the record (which is till rotating). However, by doing this it seems as if most of the collected dust is only pushed right into the grooves of the LP when the brush moves semi-vertically across them.

Are there better methods which I'm unaware of?

I think it might depend on what type f brush you use. I have one called "The parostatik disc preener" which I bought in the 60s. It's tubular so, when your disc has done a revolution beneath it, you rotate the brush anit-clokwise so that the muck is raised up off the surface of the disc. Then you can swivel, drag or just lift it up off the disc surface.

I've often wondered whether this was still available: it's the only product of any kind that doesn't seem to wear out.

MG

[Daniel A]

I think it might depend on what type f brush you use. I have one called "The parostatik disc preener" which I bought in the 60s.

/...../

I've often wondered whether this was still available: it's the only product of any kind that doesn't seem to wear out.

I was thinking of a carbon fibre brush, but I remember those tubular brushes back from the 70s. One recently sold on UK eBay for a pound, but they don't seem to be generally avaliable.

I recall a previous discussion about brushes, but as a search for it didn't come up with anything, I'm beginning to think it was perhaps back on the BNBB. A HiFi dealer tried to convince me that brushes did nothing but push the dust deeper into the grooves, and suggested that I "clean" the records simply by playing them, and then removing pollution from the stylus by using a special kind of green sandpaper (later identified as a part of "the Linn philosophy"). I get the impression that this is pretty much considered false outside of Linn circles. Since my cartridge is a (long discontinued) Shure V15-IV,

which has a built-in brush, my records would - according to this theory - be more or less destroyed as I play them, something which I can attest is not true. The aforementioned dealer had a tough time explayning why it was still OK to use this cartridge - obviously he didn't want to imply that Shure V15-IV was useless, and I did point out that it had been designed for use with the brush, and that disabling it would affect the tracking negatively. Anyway, he somewhat hesitantly said that the pressure from the cartridge brush was so light it didn't have the same effect as a manual fibre brush.

However, the brush of the cartridge actually collects a great deal of dust while the record is played, which leaves me with the problem of how to de-dust the brush.

So, what is the right way of using a carbon fibre brush? And what are the brands to look for (I remember a cheap brush which spilled "hairs" into the record grooves all the time; apparently they were not attached well enough to the brush)?

[sidewinder]

Just checked my brush and it is the Vivanco ACB25 carbon-fibre brush - you just apply gently for a few revolutions before each play. Seems effective enough.

[StormP]

I think I have a problem?

My kidneys are hurting. I usually use 1 part whiskey, ice, branch water and then give the whole mess two shots from my Zerostat pistol. But, lately I have been using an extra Zerostat shot. I think that's too much. It doesn't hurt the whiskey any, but I wonder about the effect on my human system from the Zerostat.

Here are the Zerostat instructions:

1) The Zerostat MUST be within 12 inches of the target. (I have to admit that I don't have the patience to bring out the tape measure every time I have a drink).

2) Zerostat should only be fired at locations where inanimate object of static potential should be neutralized.

? What the hell is INANIMATE?

All I do is I trying to neutralize the hangover effect. It's always worked before.

By the way, it seems worse when I play Artie Shaw records.

[patricia]

OK. Looks like my days of low-tech record cleaning are possibly over.

For Christmas I was gifted with an Orbitrac 2.

Haven't tried it yet, but the instructions are quite vague. I know that once I've used it, I'll feel like a fool because I didn't understand the instructions. I'm pretty sure that the shoe-shaped pads are supposed to go on the turntable and the dealie with the soft pads on it is supposed to be liberally sprayed with some liquid that is supplied.

I'll let you all know how it worked, once I've figured it out.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

OK. Looks like my days of low-tech record cleaning are possibly over.

For Christmas I was gifted with an Orbitrac 2.

Haven't tried it yet, but the instructions are quite vague. I know that once I've used it, I'll feel like a fool because I didn't understand the instructions. I'm pretty sure that the shoe-shaped pads are supposed to go on the turntable and the dealie with the soft pads on it is supposed to be liberally sprayed with some liquid that is supplied.

I'll let you all know how it worked, once I've figured it out.

OK Patricia, there's a safe way to do this and the Army way.

Buy a 180g pressing of any Kenny G album; spread a mixture of marmalade and cat hair on it; then try out the instructions. If you muck it up, well, it was only Kenny G.

(Works as well with old Barry Manilow or George Shearing LPs.)

MG

Edited January 3, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[patricia]

OK Patricia, there's a safe way to do this and the Army way.

Buy a 180g pressing of any Kenny G album; spread a mixture of marmalade and cat hair on it; then try out the instructions. If you muck it up, well, it was only Kenny G.

(Works as well with old Barry Manilow or George Shearing LPs.)

MG

You're a love. Thanks.

[baryshnikov]

Try lighter fuel, comes up lovely, paul uk

[patricia]

='baryshnikov' date='Jan 28 2006, 12:57 PM' post='465491']

Try lighter fuel, comes up lovely, paul uk

I'll bet it does.l Thank you.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Just pulled out a not so recent aqcuisition that has small "clock work" bars on one side - they appear every few inches in perfect pattern. No doubt it was left on one of those platters that have the "rays" of rubber to support the LP rather than a felt mat. Luckily the owner must have liked the same side of the LP that I do and that is obviously how the blemish problem came to be.

Can't really get these off by gentle rubbing as I think maybe the platter's rubber played chemical havoc w/ the vinyl. But that should only impare the very surface ... maybe a nice fifty cent piece on the needle?

[patricia]

quote name='Man with the Golden Arm' date='Jan 30 2006, 06:03 PM' post='466430']

Just pulled out a not so recent aqcuisition that has small "clock work" bars on one side - they appear every few inches in perfect pattern. No doubt it was left on one of those platters that have the "rays" of rubber to support the LP rather than a felt mat. Luckily the owner must have liked the same side of the LP that I do and that is obviously how the blemish problem came to be.

Can't really get these off by gentle rubbing as I think maybe the platter's rubber played chemical havoc w/ the vinyl. But that should only impare the very surface ... maybe a nice fifty cent piece on the needle?

I would tend to leave it alone, beyond cleaning it, if it doesn't affect how it plays. Does it? Putting weight on the needle isn't usually a good idea.

[Daniel A]

A VPI cleaning machine is out of reach for me, so I'm trying to explore the various manual methods there are for cleaning LPs. I recently bought a kit from Clearaudio which contained a few different kind of liquids (needle, LP and platter cleaning), various brushes plus some additional semi-useless things. This kind of products usually seems to be overpriced, but I was in a spending mode and also a bit curious if I could find out how these allegedly good products are working.

Basically, there are three components: a cloth, some liquid and a dust-removing brush. It seems as if at least the two first could be substituted with much cheaper products than stuff designed for LP cleaning, while achieving the same results. I've read Tony J's post here as well as the method described by Porcy62 here, but I remain uncertain as to what kind of cloth and liquid I should use.

What concerns me is that some cloths not designed for this kind of use seem to introduce static to the LP surface. Claude recommended a microfibre cloth in another thread, which might be the way to go. The cloth that came with the Clearaudio set is very similar to those used to wipe off a pair of glasses, only it feels a bit "drier". In that respect the finest microfibre cloths are very similar to the Clearaudio cloth.

Then, there's the cleaning solution. It appears as if the Clearaudio solution is alcohol based, allthough the manufacturer carefully has avoided specifying what the contents are. Despite it is sometimes stated that alcohol should not be used for LP cleaning, many people also seem satisfied with the results.

So, I'd just like to hear if anyone has any comments to:

- Using a micrifibre cloth

- The proportion of alcohol relative to destilled water in the cleaning solution

[porcy62]

I use the Miracle Disc doctor brush and a natural spounge, but a VPI will be my next move as soon I move myself in the bigger house I recently bought.