Alexander Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 I can't wait! Sounds wonderful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.D. Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 (edited) This sounds like a great find. ( wonder what else is out there.. That damned cylinder??????) And I agree with Jim in that if Uptown release this packaged as it deserves, like the Eager and Mingus, it should be hot Grammy material.. worthwhile Grammies ( I haven't much faith in them ) and Chuck and Uptown deserve and would benefit from it. Hope it Happens From Jims earlier post Here we are in 2003, the 21st century, and although most jazz fans know who Charlie Parker was, they really don't appreciate him for the true genius he was. They feel warmer towards Dizzy because he lived a long time and became a charming elder statesman, but most don't realize just what a powerfully dangerous force he was. I don't think this true for members of the various boards, but for the "general' public it seems to have weight. I know trying to play Parker for people new to jazz is difficult. You try to tell them of the importance and play a record and they react as though they've heard it all before.. which of course is partly true. Hell there's not a TV commercial that doesn't have a Bird phrase / tone or sound in it.. bit exaggerated but you get the idea. I was the same, came to Jazz from the traditional regions, actually my Jazz listening experience follows a similar path to Jazz history. I was a listener when Bird died, remember the fuss about it in the Melody Maker Later I bought Bird records, they were good but didn't mean that much. Sort of sounded like lots of other Modern Jazz I'd heard. In the days before casettes and CDr's we had REEL TO REEL tape. I used to tape my albums to protect them and after awhile decided the only way I could find anything was to arrange the records by artist.. chronologically. Recording LPs to tape makes you really listen.. to avoid, avoidable clicks 'n pops if nothing else. Probably explains my chronological jones.. if there was a session I'd read about, thought interesting but didn't have it.. my recording would stop 'til I found it... probably explains my constant wandering around record stores jones. But the listening.. Doing my Bird tapes somewhere along the way it hit ....... Born Again Bird Watcher.. and it never left. Now an undiscovered early date from 45.. Damn I'd have to redo all those Reel to reels to get it in place. Those Reel to reel days are gone, tapes swallowed by the flood.. but I have gotten into making my own " Mosaic" of certain artists Bring it on Chuck.... Damn that chronological Jones Edited July 17, 2003 by P.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 So, just out of curiousity, when was the last time some serious "previously unreleased" Charlie Parker was discovered??? 5 years ago?? 10 years ago?? 20 years ago?? 30 years ago?? I know this is a major event, but could someone provide some perspective on how major it is?? I guess I'm asking this: For how long have Parker fanatics thought that that was all there was to hear from the man, and there probably ain't no more??? Thanks!!! -- R.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.D. Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 probably when Mosaic did the Benedetti's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Bird Lives! Thanks Jim for filling us in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave9199 Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 P.D., I do the EXACT same thing and feel the same way you do about this. I'm still mystified why Columbia is putting out Miles Davis's box #3 last. With the Blackhawk stuff just out, it allowed me to get through Quiet Nights (1962) and now I have to wait at the very least until, my guess, close to Xmas 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 not that this will make a difference to my no brainer to buy this but.... what's the sound like ?? Is it more like the `47 Carnegie Hall or Fats/Bird at Birdland 1950 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 I heard an unmastered, unEQ'ed tape copy, and it sounded just fine. Remember, it was recorded using Town Hall's in-house, professional quality(?) recording system at 78 RPM . It's not a homemade thing that some fan captured on the sly using low-grade portable equipment. Fidelity is quite good overall. A tiny bit of surface noise is there, but what do you expect from acetates that have been God knows where for the last 55+ years? Balance wavers occasionally, but the hall sound comes through quite nicely. It's definitely a "live" recording, not a studio one, but unless you're fatally anal about sound, there should be NO complaints. I'll say it again - this is going to be onee of the most important historical releases in quite some time, and the good sound is just icing on the cake. If you believe in miracles.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 but what do you expect from acetates that have been God knows where for the last 55+ years? or Chuck...I really hope we get to hear the story of how this session came to light asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Yes, I think this is going to be a landmark reissue (hey, it's going to be an UPTOWN reissue, they're that way for the most part, n'est ce pas?) I'm looking forward to hearing this for many reasons, including the Big Sid Catlett drum solo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 I'll definitely buy it! I'll believe in miracles when those unissued Atlantic sessions get issued..... Now THOSE have me drooling! Not that the Parker/Gillespie live date isn't something not to drool over...... which shows what kind of jazz gets my juices flowing. I love listening to 40's bebop, especially Parker and Gillespie, but they don't have the same impact on me as when I first heard Larry Young's Unity or Miles' Bitches Brew or even Matthew Shipp's Multiplication Table. I guess I'm funny that way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Chuck, I know it is possible not the best way, but why not let Freshsound make a CD of the Atlantic Trios. I know that many members of this board would be happy to have a chance to listen to it. Jürgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Ugh. Then he could just hand over ALL the Uptown recodings to them or Discomforme or whomever and be done with it.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 I know it is possible not the best way, but why not let... I'd rather see Lacy and the Cherry estate receive money for the music. I'd rather not see these people continue. I'd rather swallow a grenade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 According to the usually reliable Bird's Diary book by Ken Vaill, the Town Hall concert was held on Friday, June 22, 1945. The book shows a newspaper (or magazine?) ad that lists the 8:15PM concert organized by the New Jazz Foundation. The ad announces Coleman Hawkins, Dizzy Gillespie (with Parker, Haig, Russell and Roach), Slam Stewart, Pearl Bailey, Buck Clayton, Sidney Catlett, Don Byas and Introducing Erroll Garner (with Harold West and Al Lucas), Symphony Sid-Narrator. The Ken Vaill book also includes a copy of a review (obviously from Down Beat) which reads: 'The New Jazz Foundation is still shooting better-than-par. At its latest Town Hall soiree two of the most widely-heralded stars, Coleman Hawkins and Slam Stewart didn't show. Me I'd like to know what goes on here. ...(the writer then complains about the way these concerts are run)... 'As for the music - well, lot of it was good but too much of it was repetitious and for that reason dull. Dizzy Gillespie's band and Don Byas certainely offered plenty of excitement but how great for how long can they be? Dizzy Gillespie and alto-man Charlie Parker gave out with great music but it would have been a big help if their work was broken up by other acts instead of being presented in one...' The rest is now shown. So much for the writer. He watches and listens to History and complains. Now let's wait for the CD. Will it be out by the end of the year? If so, I know what Santa is going to bring me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 There were 2 concerts at Town Hall. The "review" covers the other one. John Levy is the bass player with Garner for the material we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 So, just out of curiousity, when was the last time some serious "previously unreleased" Charlie Parker was discovered??? 5 years ago?? 10 years ago?? 20 years ago?? 30 years ago?? The last previous major 'previously unreleased' Charlie Parker material seems to have been 'The Complete Legendary Rockland Palace Concert', the September 1952 Harlem concert benefit for a Communist party leader that came out about 5 or 6 years ago, a double Jazz Classics CD with a lot of new material from better source. Some of the material was released years ago by Charlie Parker Records but the Jazz Classics had the complete concert in much better sound (thanks to fine engineering by Doug Pomeroy). The better source were the tapes that came from Chan Parker. That concert (with Walter Bishop, Mundell Lowe, Teddy Kotick, Max Roach and the string section) must have been something else to attend! The music is Parker at its very near best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 God willing and the creek don't rise, I know I'm going to get get the Dizzy/Bird Uptown and listen to it as soon as it's released. I would like to hear the Lacy and Cherry Atlantic trios sometime, preferably on a legal release, where royalties are paid to the artists. We're a small but enthusiastic and vocal crowd here. Does anyone have any ideas as to how this might be accomplished? Perhaps someone can put a bug in Michael Cuscuna's ear and they could be issued as a Mosaic mini-select? Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 The Uptown "Boston 1952" came out about the same time as the Rockland Palace, or a bit after. . . . Another excellent Uptown release that should not be ignored by Parker fanatics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 The Uptown "Boston 1952" came out about the same time as the Rockland Palace, or a bit after. . . . Another excellent Uptown release that should not be ignored by Parker fanatics! A Parker fanatic here. Nearly all of the 'Boston 1952' Uptown had been released before. I have the Uptown Boston Bird CD. The sound is way better than the other previous issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Lacy and Cherry Atlantic trios... Perhaps someone can put a bug in Michael Cuscuna's ear and they could be issued as a Mosaic mini-select? Any other ideas? Can anyone (Kevin??) mention these sides to Michael sometime, and just get his perspective on this. Maybe get him to brainstorm about how to somehow get them released?? Or Chuck, do you have any kind of rapport with Michael, enough that it would it be worth you contacting him somehow (e-mail, phone, whatever), to discuss/brainstorm it?? Maybe even play the tapes for Michael, even over the phone (hell, Miles played music over the phone to people all the time!! - or so I've read in every Miles biography ever written). Then (maybe?) Michael could maybe talk it up with the right people, or at least help make some of the bigger "behind the scenes" movers and shakers aware of the music, and the need for it to be released?? Or is there anybody besides Michael worth bringing into the discussion on this?? Normally Chuck would be the first person I would think of in these kind of situations, but Chuck's already on the case!! ===== By the way, on the Cherry sides – does he play trumpet / pocket trumpet / cornet on the whole thing, or are there any of his world music instruments?? (I don’t mean that disparagingly, although I am revealing my personal preferences (brass!) in Cherry’s choice of instruments.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Cool, I hadn't realized that all of the Boston had been out before, I only knew of part of it. It's so great that this stuff is out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Lacy and Cherry Atlantic trios... Perhaps someone can put a bug in Michael Cuscuna's ear and they could be issued as a Mosaic mini-select? Any other ideas? Can anyone (Kevin??) mention these sides to Michael sometime, and just get his perspective on this. Maybe get him to brainstorm about how to somehow get them released?? I'm just another person on this board, with no connections in the music biz, but I sent an email to Michael Cuscuna c/o Mosaic to let him know that people are interested in hearing this music. Perhaps if a number of other Board members did the same, it might do some good. I know that people like Chuck and Kevin may actually accomplish something, but it probably wouldn't hurt if Mr. Cuscuna knew that others were interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 (edited) MAJOR previously unreleased Charlie Parker material in my jazz-lifetime (1971 onward) include the Wichita broadcasts/Minton's "Cherokee" on Onyx, BIRTH OF THE BEBOP on Stash, the Bennedetti Mosaic, and that's about it. I'd add the various airshots, especially the Bird/Navarro & Bird/Diz/Bud Birdland dates, but those had all been circulating amongst serious collectors (one of which I've never had the resources to become, alas) before being released on various labels of various legitimacy. By "major", I'm talking about stuff that had only been rumored to exist or had never been known to exist. I think this recently discovered item definitely falls into the "major" category. Look at the chronology - this concert took place before ANY Parker Dial session and before any of his Savoy sessions except for the Tiny Grimes date, not exactly a bebop date. It's rougly contemporaneous with Dizzy & Bird's first Guild sides, the first "non-transitional", "pure" bebop records. But those are 78s, and this is a live concert recording, without the time constraints of studio 78-ery. This is about as REAL representation of "pure" bebop in it's earliest form that we're likely to get until/unless somebody brings out some recording(s) of the Dizzy/Byas group at the Onyx Club in 1944, and even those ain't likely to have Bird, so it'll have to be Marris-ized (have an asterisk placed beside it, for the non-sportsheads in the house). Think about it - we're going to be hearing unfettered examples of a still VERY underground music (Dizzy was the only player with even half a "name"). The "Bebop Revolution" was still in the future as far as all but the MOST clued-in "insiders" went. As the music surfaced further, it of course underwent some minor yet real evolution. But this recording is before any of that occured - this is almost like being present for the first public display (or reading, however they did it) of the Declaration Of Independence in 1776, before word of it got to the British. Think about THAT... Really, this is going to be a major release, a historically significant release, by any definition. Everybody performing at their very highest level, and the recordings sounding GOOD is almost too much to hope for, but dammit, it happens. Nothing short of miraculous if you ask me, nothing short of miraculous. Edited July 18, 2003 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 this is almost like being present for the first public display (or reading, however they did it) of the Declaration Of Independence in 1776, before word of it got to the British. Think about THAT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.