??? Unreleased Mary Lou Williams 1957 session ???

[DrJ]

At the Steve Hoffman forums, there was a discussion about Capitol Studio in NYC, and in that thread someone posted a link to the following site which has some pics from the studio:

Capitol Studio

Upon taking a look several of us noticed Mary Lou Williams in the pics, as well as Ed Thigpen and Melba Liston. But the part that really really got my attention was the note at the bottom about this having been a session for Roulette and that it was NEVER ISSUED.

I've Googled a few on line discographies and nobody mentions this Mary Lou session.

OK experts (Mike Fitzgerald, where are you?) - can anyone confirm this session, complete musician listing, and whether or not it has ever been issued?

[Chuck Nessa]

Thanks for posting this. Kinda' interesting. I checked and there is no mention of this in Bruyninckx or my old Jepsen. Since it ain't in those discos, I'd guess it isn't in Lord either.

[DrJ]

THANKS for looking this up in your discography resources, Chuck - well, the plot thickens.

I'd initially thought that maybe Mr. Stewart's memory may have been faulty, but when I searched for ANY listed session with both Williams and Ed Thigpen, I found none...so I'm thinking he's probably remembering correctly and this was a forgotten about session.

Will watch this space for further developments!

[Chuck Nessa]

I just forwarded the thread to Michael Cuscuna. Maybe he knows something.

[bertrand]

The probability of unknown unissued sessions is higher with Roulette than with other labels, considering what a wacky businessman Morris Levy was (anyone see the film 'Why Do Fools Fall In Love?' about Frankie Lymon?).

A 1961 or 1962 Downbeat blurb mentions that Lee Morgan was to do a session for Roulette with a large orchestra conducted by Tadd Dameron. I know for a fact that Levy gave up on Lee, who he could not pin down for a recording session, but we do not know for sure that some aborted session did not take place.

And the details for the Lee Morgan half-session for Roulette (3 tracks, one each by Wayne, Lee and Bobby Timmons) are very sketchy, leading me to believe that Roulette was not nearly as meticulous about keeping session logs as Alfred Lion was.

Just my two cents.

Bertrand.

[DrJ]

Thanks for sending this query to Michael Cuscuna, Chuck.

Yes Bertrand, this is what I was thinking - it could well have happened with Roulette. We can only hope Williams did record this date AND that the tapes can be or have been located and are in decent shape.

[jazzbo]

Any "new" Mary Lou would be a joy!

[AllenLowe]

Moe was definitely buried with a few tape boxes -

[Ken Dryden]

It doesn't show up in my copy of the Lord Discography, though I'm using one of the older CD-Roms.

I did run across an oddball unissued session from 1950, featuring the Dave Lambert Singers (Lambert, Hendricks & Ross) with Williams.

I also have a track or two from a broadcast of the 1st annual Kansas City Williams Women in Jazz Festival, that featured Mary Lou. There are also 2-3 tracks by Marian McPartland, all aired over NPR.

[montg]

There's a 'selective discography' in Linda Dahl's biography of MLW. It does indeed mention 'unissued material recorded by Roulette Records in NYC in 1957'. The source is a 'tape of test pressing in MLW collection'.

Only three songs are listed: Waltz Boogie, Untitled, and Morning Glory. Since the discography is selective there obviously could be others. The only other details are that MLW is the leader, Melba Liston is the arranger, and there are unidentified players on fl;b-cl;d;b.

If Cuscuna could ever pull together the unissued MLW stuff into a Select he would deserve a grammy!

[ghost of miles]

I just forwarded the thread to Michael Cuscuna. Maybe he knows something.

Any word from MC, Chuck, that can be disseminated?

[AllenLowe]

this just in from Cuscuna:

"Mary Lou who? would you tell those guys at Organissimo to leave me the hell alone? If they want to reissue all this crap, let them start their own damn record company."

sorry guys, but Mike's a little irritable these days -

[mikeweil]

this just in from Cuscuna:

"Mary Lou who? would you tell those guys at Organissimo to leave me the hell alone? If they want to reissue all this crap, let them start their own damn record company."

sorry guys, but Mike's a little irritable these days -

If this is his true reaction and no fake, I begin to understand why the old BNBB was shut down .....

[ghost of miles]

I think Allen's being a wiseacre. I am curious, though, as to whether or not MC ever checks this board out. (I'm sure he wouldn't want to register here--we'd pester him to death, and he's a busy enough guy as it is.) I know that Fred Pustay is aware of the board.

[AllenLowe]

yeah, well, I was just doing my impression of the busy record exec - just imagining, in a somewhat non-serious way, what it must be like for some of these guys who are probably overwhelmed by suggestions, not that there's anything WRONG with suggestions -

Edited December 28, 2005 by AllenLowe

[DrJ]

So I take it nobody ever heard back from Michael Cuscuna about this inquiry?

[ghost of miles]

The liner notes to the new Mary Lou Williams Collective's recording of ZODIAC SUITE include this passage:

In June of 1946, Mary arranged three sections of the work (Scorpio, Sagittarius, and Aquarius) for a seventy-piece symphony orchestra and played these with the New York Pops Orchestra at Carnegie Hall. This was also recorded, but has not been issued to date.

There's another session I'd love to hear.