Dexter Gordon

[mrjazzman]

right now listening to I'll Remember April from "Biting The Apple" on SteepleChase, very nice. check out these SteepleChase dates from 1964 when he was still in what i'll call his fertile period

Cheesecake, King Neptune, Love For Sale, and I Want More, and Billie's Bounce...........

And one more you´re missing: "It´s you or no one" (SteepleChase LP 12": SCC 6022 ) or (SteepleChase CD: SCCD 36022) or (Video Arts Music CD: VACE-9006).

yes, forgot about that one out, i own so many..................

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

FWIW, the Dexter in Radioland releases are very fine but poor $ per minute. First I suggest tracking down the 4 full(er) cds of Black Lion recordings from 1967 with Kenny Drew, NHOP and Albert Heath. They have better sound and can be found inexpensively on Amazon and Half.com. Dexter plays beautifully.

The original (cd) titles are:

Take The "A" Train

Both Sides of Midnight

Body and Soul

Live! at the Jazzhus Montmartre

I've got a couple of Black Lions, but I don't recognise those titles. The ones I've got are

Blues Walk - that's an LP, subtitled The Montmartre collection vol 2

For all we know - that's a CD; it has one track from Blues walk in it - There will never be another you.

Am I right in thinking I've got, between these two, the whole of the Jazzhus Montmartre CD?

Were the other Black Lions done at about the same time?

MG

[AllenLowe]

I don't know if you guys can't read, but if you look over my posts I have said REPEATEDLY that the issue is not drug addiction but its specific effect on Dexter - now I'm not surprised at Mrjazzman, who has decided to revisit this because he doesn't know any better, but this is getting a little bit silly - it's like the old Republican political technique - attack someone not for what he said but for what you want people to think he said and than let him defend himself against something he did not say - enough already -

Edited January 10, 2006 by AllenLowe

[johnagrandy]

I don't know if you guys can't read, but if you look over my posts I have said REPEATEDLY that the issue is not drug addiction but its specific effect on Dexter - now I'm not surprised at Mrjazzman, who has decided to revisit this because he doesn't know any better, but this is getting a little bit silly - it's like the old Republican political technique - attack someone not for what he said but for what you want people to think he said and than let him defend himself against something he did not say - enough already -

I remember getting into some sort of vague psuedo-argument with Jim about drugs and Woody Shaw. Looks like WS was way more messed-up than I knew (and I knew all about the heavy smack addiction starting from his early teenage trips to the city) ... but where can you find a single recording where it sounds that way?

[AllenLowe]

if you are referring to Dexter, you gotta go back and read my posts - I'm very clear on my overall position -

[Chuck Nessa]

I've got a couple of Black Lions, but I don't recognise those titles. The ones I've got are

Blues Walk - that's an LP, subtitled The Montmartre collection vol 2

For all we know - that's a CD; it has one track from Blues walk in it - There will never be another you.

Am I right in thinking I've got, between these two, the whole of the Jazzhus Montmartre CD?

Were the other Black Lions done at about the same time?

MG

Recorded July 20/21, 1967

BLCD-760118 Body and Soul

Like Someone In Love

Come Rain or Come Shine

There Will Never Be Another You

Body and Soul

Blues Walk

BLCD-760103 Both Sides of Midnight

Devilette

For All We Know

Doxy

Sonnymoon for Two

Misty

BLCD-760133 Take the A Train

But Not For Me

Take the A Train

For All We Know (2nd version)

Blues Walk (2nd version)

I Guess I'll Have To Hang My Tears Out To Dry

Love For Sale

Jazz Colours 874727 Live! at Jazzhus Montmartre

I Should Care

Darn That Dream

Now's The Time

Satin Doll

What's New

[AllenLowe]

I'm so annoyed at misrepresentation of my position on drugs and Dexter that I'm bumping this up - to repeat my previous post:

"I don't know if you guys can't read, but if you look over my posts I have said REPEATEDLY that the issue is not drug addiction but its specific effect on Dexter - now I'm not surprised at Mrjazzman, who has decided to revisit this because he doesn't know any better, but this is getting a little bit silly - it's like the old Republican political technique - attack someone not for what he said but for what you want people to think he said and than let him defend himself against something he did not say - enough already -"

Edited January 10, 2006 by AllenLowe

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I've got a couple of Black Lions, but I don't recognise those titles. The ones I've got are

Blues Walk - that's an LP, subtitled The Montmartre collection vol 2

For all we know - that's a CD; it has one track from Blues walk in it - There will never be another you.

Am I right in thinking I've got, between these two, the whole of the Jazzhus Montmartre CD?

Were the other Black Lions done at about the same time?

MG

Recorded July 20/21, 1967

BLCD-760118 Body and Soul

Like Someone In Love

Come Rain or Come Shine

There Will Never Be Another You

Body and Soul

Blues Walk

BLCD-760103 Both Sides of Midnight

Devilette

For All We Know

Doxy

Sonnymoon for Two

Misty

BLCD-760133 Take the A Train

But Not For Me

Take the A Train

For All We Know (2nd version)

Blues Walk (2nd version)

I Guess I'll Have To Hang My Tears Out To Dry

Love For Sale

Jazz Colours 874727 Live! at Jazzhus Montmartre

I Should Care

Darn That Dream

Now's The Time

Satin Doll

What's New

Thanks Chuck, that's very helpful

MG

[marcello]

I'm so annoyed at misrepresentation of my position on drugs and Dexter that I'm bumping this up - to repeat my previous post:

"I don't know if you guys can't read, but if you look over my posts I have said REPEATEDLY that the issue is not drug addiction but its specific effect on Dexter....

Uh.... we got that loud & clear and every which way from Sunday, Allen.

Chuck's recomendations ( especially "Take the A Train" / Black Lion ) are retort enough.

The next time Chuck.....a little sooner please, huh?

[AllenLowe]

uh...no, you (or THEY) did not : hence: per mrjazzman's post, above -

"Why is Dex being singled out for his addiction(s)? Other then Cliff Brown, all the greats were junkies.

this is what i was trying to get across to allen............."

[Morganized]

I've got a couple of Black Lions, but I don't recognise those titles. The ones I've got are

Blues Walk - that's an LP, subtitled The Montmartre collection vol 2

For all we know - that's a CD; it has one track from Blues walk in it - There will never be another you.

Am I right in thinking I've got, between these two, the whole of the Jazzhus Montmartre CD?

Were the other Black Lions done at about the same time?

MG

Recorded July 20/21, 1967

BLCD-760118 Body and Soul

Like Someone In Love

Come Rain or Come Shine

There Will Never Be Another You

Body and Soul

Blues Walk

BLCD-760103 Both Sides of Midnight

Devilette

For All We Know

Doxy

Sonnymoon for Two

Misty

BLCD-760133 Take the A Train

But Not For Me

Take the A Train

For All We Know (2nd version)

Blues Walk (2nd version)

I Guess I'll Have To Hang My Tears Out To Dry

Love For Sale

Jazz Colours 874727 Live! at Jazzhus Montmartre

I Should Care

Darn That Dream

Now's The Time

Satin Doll

What's New

I agree with Chuck about all of these. They are excellent. These discs made me see Dexter in a whole new light. His playing here seemed almost effortless.IMHO

My favorite is "Both Sides of Midnight" but all are excellent. If you don't have them do not hesitate to pick them up.

[johnagrandy]

if you are referring to Dexter, you gotta go back and read my posts - I'm very clear on my overall position -

All I'm saying is "Who knows?" (Personally, seems to me maybe Dex was alcohol influenced more than any other substance.) Who am I to say? (I didn't know any of these guys.) But from what I've read, many of the substance-loving greats (specifically) often got their doogie fixes before the sessions. Seems like maybe heroin had no effect , or a positive effect , on some % of their playing , to a degree , for a time ...

[AllenLowe]

it is sometimes (or often) hard to tell - as I noted, it's a sense I got about Dexter's playing and I have no medical proof. Drugs can have interesting effects, however; the Beatles always noted that their music changed and advanced once they started using LSD. There are also some "live" Charlie Parker things in which he plays great, and sounds like a bit of a stoned wild man - he keeps heading up into the upper register and breaking notes in a very intentional way, plays with a lot of abandon -

[mrjazzman]

I'm so annoyed at misrepresentation of my position on drugs and Dexter that I'm bumping this up - to repeat my previous post:

"I don't know if you guys can't read, but if you look over my posts I have said REPEATEDLY that the issue is not drug addiction but its specific effect on Dexter - now I'm not surprised at Mrjazzman, who has decided to revisit this because he doesn't know any better, but this is getting a little bit silly - it's like the old Republican political technique - attack someone not for what he said but for what you want people to think he said and than let him defend himself against something he did not say - enough already -"

"the issue is not drug addiction but its specific effect on Dexter" if he were not addicted to the drug, the drug would not have had the "specific effect" you're referring to on him. as i've said previously, you are the epitome of CONTRADICTION. the more you try to clean your shit up, the more contradictory it sounds. Can't keep my name out of your posts can you? I must have a "specific effect" on you. if you don't like his music, don't listen to it, don't buy it, that we all can understand. what is not understandable is your desire to disrespect a dead MASTER. I will never let your disrespect go unchallanged...........

[Spontooneous]

Oh, I get it. Don't ask questions about The Great Respected Dead Masters. And don't ever try to open a new line of honest discussion about one.

How useful, to jazz scholars and fans alike.

[mrjazzman]

Oh, I get it. Don't ask questions about The Great Respected Dead Masters. And don't ever try to open a new line of honest discussion about one.

How useful, to jazz scholars and fans alike.

didn't say don't ask questions, said don't disrespect, don't belittle, don't demean...............

Edited January 14, 2006 by mrjazzman

[connoisseur series500]

I don't know if you guys can't read, but if you look over my posts I have said REPEATEDLY that the issue is not drug addiction but its specific effect on Dexter - now I'm not surprised at Mrjazzman, who has decided to revisit this because he doesn't know any better, but this is getting a little bit silly - it's like the old Republican political technique - attack someone not for what he said but for what you want people to think he said and than let him defend himself against something he did not say - enough already -

I don't have any trouble understanding Allen's distinction here. He could very well be right.

Could do without the cheap political generalization, however...

[JSngry]

What, that mrjazzman doesn't know any better?

[AllenLowe]

I'm not obsessed with mrjazzman...

mrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmr

mrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzman

jazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjamrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazmanmrjazzmanmrjazzmanmrjazzman

Edited January 15, 2006 by AllenLowe

[Free For All]

Lift me, won't you lift me above the old routine

Make it nice, play it clean, Jazzman

When the Jazzman's testifyin'

A faithless man believes

He can sing you into paradise

Or bring you to your knees

It's a gospel kind of feelin'

A touch of Georgia slide

A song of pure revival

And a style that's sanctified

Jazzman, take my blues away

Make my pain the same as yours

With every change you play

Jazzman, oh, Jazzman

When the Jazzman's signifyin'

And the band is windin' low

It's the late night side of morning

In the darkness of his soul

He can fill a room with sadness

As he fills his horn with tears

He can cry like a fallen angel

When risin' time is near

Jazzman, take my blues away

Make my pain the same as yours

With every change you play

Oh, lift me, won't you lift me with every turnaround

Play it sweetly, take me down, oh, Jazzman

[AllenLowe]

lordy lordy I'm saved - thank you mrjazzman -

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Lift me, won't you lift me above the old routine

Make it nice, play it clean, Jazzman

When the Jazzman's testifyin'

A faithless man believes

He can sing you into paradise

Or bring you to your knees

It's a gospel kind of feelin'

A touch of Georgia slide

A song of pure revival

And a style that's sanctified

Jazzman, take my blues away

Make my pain the same as yours

With every change you play

Jazzman, oh, Jazzman

When the Jazzman's signifyin'

And the band is windin' low

It's the late night side of morning

In the darkness of his soul

He can fill a room with sadness

As he fills his horn with tears

He can cry like a fallen angel

When risin' time is near

Jazzman, take my blues away

Make my pain the same as yours

With every change you play

Oh, lift me, won't you lift me with every turnaround

Play it sweetly, take me down, oh, Jazzman

YEAH! YEAH!

Then there's a great Moses Davis organ solo of which even Big John would be proud!

I didn't know anyone else was interested in The (Fabulous) Counts!

MG

[Guest akanalog]

just checked out gordon's "lullabye for a monster" on steeplechase. from '76 i believe.

its a trio session w. NHOP and alex riel.

touched by the times a bit in that some of the tempos are more funky than swinging (surpisingly groovy "on green dolphin street" though it might come off a little cute-sy) but very nice.

gordon sounds commanding and nothing lags.

and i am generally someone who doesn't like sax trio stuff-but this one works and as far as i know, it might stand out in gordon's long discography. not sure he ever really did the trio thing otherwise.

[clifford_thornton]

I haven't got into the BNs so much, but do enjoy the couple of his recordings I am more closely familiar with - one with Booker Ervin on Prestige, the other with Jackie Mc on Steeplechase, The Meeting. A Day in Copenhagen looks good - with Slide and Dizzy, can you go wrong? - but I admit to being very bored by Go and A Swingin' Affair, which has prevented much further investigation. The tone and phrasing on the two sideman gigs I mention are more striking to me, grittier and maybe more hard-earned than on the BNs. Would it be fair to say that the '70s Dexter might be more estimable? How would people here say they differ? I'm not feeling like scrolling through the whole thread to get some opinions...

There's one I'm curious about, mainly from the Bennink-fanatic perspective, but the double LP on Catfish from Amsterdam's Paradiso looks pretty cool. Any thoughts? I think it was reissued on Affinity but can't recall.

Finally, I think you can totally hear drugs in somebody's playing. Not everybody, but there are some who really sound affected. Alan Shorter is a big one for me - he always sounds zonked, especially later in his brief career. Doesn't stop my enjoyment of the albums, but his playing is pretty nodded-out on a lot of post-Orgasm sessions.

[Chuck Nessa]

Clifford needs much more time exploring Dexter.