Trane 4tet (plus Dolphy & Wes) tapes discovered...

[EKE BBB]

Just read on Tomajazz that a recording of the Monterey Festival, Sep. 22, 1961 concert has appeared. If features the Coltrane Quartet (Trane, Tyner, Workman & Jones) PLUS Eric Dolphy and WES MONTGOMERY.

Almost an hour and only three tracks: “My favourite things”, “Naima” and a medley of “So What” & “Impressions”.

These tapes, without any label or sticker, were a birthday present for Coltrane who later forgot about them.

It´s the only known recording of Coltrane with Wes Montgomery.

For the full article, here´s the link:

http://www.tomajazz.com/clubdejazz/noticias/grabaciones.htm

Edited December 28, 2005 by EKE BBB

[EKE BBB]

Anyway, and though it´s in Spanish, I think I´ll quote it here:

DESCUBIERTA UNA GRABACIÓN INÉDITA DE JOHN COLTRANE CON ERIC DOLPHY Y WES MONTGOMERY

Tras los hallazgos de las grabaciones inéditas de John Coltrane en el Carnegie Hall (con Thelonious Monk) y en el Half Note (con su propio cuarteto), parecía imposible que pudieran surgir nuevas sorpresas. Contra todo pronóstico, entre las cintas recientemente desempolvadas por los herederos del saxofonista han aparecido dos bobinas que ni se sabía que existían, las correspondientes al concierto ofrecido por Coltrane en el Festival de Monterey de 1961, el 22 de septiembre.

Al parecer, las cintas, sin etiquetar, fueron un regalo de cumpleaños para Coltrane, que éste guardó y olvidó (en breve viajaría a la costa Este y luego a Europa). Hasta aquí, la noticia es sorprendente. Lo que la hace extraordinaria es que éste es el único testimonio grabado del efímero sexteto de Trane con Eric Dolphy y Wes Montgomery, acompañados por McCoy Tyner, Reggie Workman y Elvin Jones. A lo largo de casi una hora el grupo toca tres temas: “My favourite things”, “Naima” y un medley de “So What” e “Impressions”. Coltrane toca el soprano y el tenor, y Dolphy, por su parte, toca la flauta, el clarinete bajo y el saxo alto respectivamente en cada uno de los temas.

La mezcla de dos vanguardistas como Trane y Dolphy con la solidez rítmica y sonora de Wes Montgomery funciona sorprendentemente bien. El grupo venía de tocar varias noches en el Jazz Workshop de San Francisco, y se disolvería en breve, a pesar de los deseos del propio Coltrane, que declaró dos meses después en Inglaterra que “le hubiera encantado seguir contando con Montgomery”.

Ésta es, por tanto, una grabación única, de cuya existencia no sabía ni el avezado productor Orrin Keepnews (con quien Montgomery tuvo una relación cercana). Los momentos más destacables quizás sean el solo del guitarrista en “So What/Impressions” y los ensembles de Coltrane y Dolphy en “Naima”, con Dolphy al clarinete bajo y Trane al soprano en la introducción y al tenor al final del tema. Aunque algo errático, cabe también destacar los experimentos con cuartos de tono de Dolphy en “My favourite things”.

En 1961, cuando se grabó este concierto, Coltrane tenía contrato exclusivo con Impulse y Montgomery con Riverside. Por suerte Universal y Fantasy/Concord mantienen una excelente relación y, a falta de resolver unos flecos legales, se prevé la publicación de esta música en primavera por Universal.

[White Lightning]

Unbelievable!

[Bright Moments]

wow!!

[Swinging Swede]

A machine translation, for what it's worth:

DISCOVERED An UNPUBLISHED RECORDING DE JOHN COLTRANE WITH ERIC DOLPHY And WES MONTGOMERY After the findings of the unpublished recordings of John Coltrane in the Carnegie Hall (with Thelonious Monk) and in the Half Note (with its own quartet), it seemed impossible that new surprises could arise. Against all prognosis, between tapes recently dusted by the heirs of the saxofonista they have appeared two coils that nor were known that they existed, corresponding ones to the concert offered by Coltrane in the Festival of Monterey of 1961, the 22 of September. Al to seem, the tapes, without labeling, were a gift of birthday for Coltrane, that this one kept and forgot (in brief it would travel soon to the coast This and to Europe). Up to here, the news is surprising. What it makes extraordinary is that this one is the only recorded testimony of the ephemeral sexteto of Trane with Eric Dolphy and Wes Montgomery, accompanied by McCoy Tyner, Reggie Workman and Elvin Jones. Throughout almost one hour the group touches three subjects: "My favourite things", "Naima" and a medley of "Under What" and "Impressions". Coltrane touches to the soprano and the tenor, and Dolphy, on the other hand, touches flauta, clarinete low and saxo high respectively in each one of the subjects. The mixture of two vanguardistas as Trane and Dolphy with the rythmical and sonorous solidity of Wes Montgomery work surprising well. The group came to touch several nights in the Workshop Jazz of San Francisco, and it would dissolve shortly, in spite of desires of the own Coltrane, that later declared two months in England that "it had enchanted to continue telling to him on Montgomery". This one is, therefore, a unique recording, of whose existence the experienced producer Orrin Keepnews did not know nor (with that Montgomery had a near relation). Perhaps the most remarkable moments are the single one of the guitarist in "Under What/Impressions" and the ensembles of Coltrane and Dolphy in "Naima", with Dolphy to clarinete low and Trane to the soprano in the introduction and the tenor at the end of the subject. Although something erratic, is also possible to emphasize the experiments with quarters of tone of Dolphy in "My favourite things". In 1961, when east concert was recorded, Coltrane had exclusive contract with Impulse and Montgomery with Riverside. Luckily Universal and Fantasy/Concord maintain an excellent relation and, for want of solving legal flecos, the publication of this music in spring by Universal is anticipated.

[Swinging Swede]

Btw, this session is not previously unknown; it is mentioned in the Coltrane discography at jazzdisco.org as rejected, for example. It is great to see it coming out though. There are also several late studio session that have recently been discovered, including one later than the Olatunji concert. These are good years for Coltrane fans.

[brownie]

At long last, we'll all be able to enjoy this!

Thanks EKE for letting us know!

[EKE BBB]

Thanks for the translation, Swinging Swede... I was too lazy to translate the whole article!

[mikeweil]

Wow! I'm sure this will blow our minds - reviews tell that Wes was observed as the best soloist in that short lived band, although he himself thought it was just the other way round ... 2005 was a great year for unexpected finds!

But I will believe this only after I heard it with my own ears!

[ejp626]

Btw, this session is not previously unknown; it is mentioned in the Coltrane discography at jazzdisco.org as rejected, for example. It is great to see it coming out though. There are also several late studio session that have recently been discovered, including one later than the Olatunji concert. These are good years for Coltrane fans.

Studio material after the Olatunji concert? (It must be heavy, heavy stuff.) Was this discussed on the board? Is it really coming out? Inquiring minds need to know.

[EKE BBB]

Btw, this session is not previously unknown; it is mentioned in the Coltrane discography at jazzdisco.org as rejected, for example. It is great to see it coming out though. There are also several late studio session that have recently been discovered, including one later than the Olatunji concert. These are good years for Coltrane fans.

Studio material after the Olatunji concert? (It must be heavy, heavy stuff.) Was this discussed on the board? Is it really coming out? Inquiring minds need to know.

This is listed on Dave Wild´s Coltrane Discography (Olatunji concert was 4/23/67):

670517 JOHN COLTRANE SEXTET:

Personnel: Pharoah Sanders, alto saxophone; John Coltrane, tenor saxophone; Alice Coltrane, piano; Jimmy Garrison, bass; Rashied Ali, drums; Algie DeWitt, Bata drum

Location: 'Van Gelder Studios', Englewood Cliffs NJ

Date: 5/17/67

Engineer: Rudy Van Gelder

a. "None Other" (J. Coltrane)

Impulse unknown

b. "Collidoscope" (J. Coltrane)

Impulse unknown

Edited December 28, 2005 by EKE BBB

[dave9199]

To really complete the whole Coltrane picture, all those studio sessions from 1966 & 1967 need to be released.

[EKE BBB]

Back to the topic...

...anyone knows if any "illegal" tape of this concert has been circulating?

[Hardbopjazz]

This is such great news. Finally, the "Holy Grail" has been discovered.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Hardbopjazz

[mikeweil]

Back to the topic...

...anyone knows if any "illegal" tape of this concert has been circulating?

I seriously doubt this - David Wild would have mentioned that. He and Michael Cuscuna wrote about the Trane-Wes collaboration in their magazine disc'ribe many years ago and were searching for tapes back then. This would have been known, as sensational as it is.

[EKE BBB]

Here´s an old post from mikeweil transcribing part of that David Wild´s article on this recording:

So here's part of what David Wild wrote for the first issue of the magazine disc'ribe that he and Michael Cuscuna run for three years, published fall 1980 - seems it is not available online:

Wes & Trane - An unrecorded sextet

For all the many contexts in which John Coltrane's horn was captured on tape, there remain a number of fascinating undocumented combinations whose sound we only can imagine. One of the more interesting is the short-lived Coltrane sextet featuring Eric Dolphy and Wes Montgomery. ....

I suspect Montgomery's contact with Coltrane may have initially come through brother Buddy; The vibist joined Coltrane in a Miles Davis Sextet for several West Coast concerts (February 1960). But other contacts were also likely during the year. Montgomery evidently remained on the West coast after the disbanding [of the Mastersounds], recording with his two brothers in LA in July, and leading a studio quintet for Riverside on October 11. Coltrane meanwhile had ended his association with Miles (April) and within a month had debuted with his own group.

By January 3, 1961 (when they recorded for Riverside in NYC), the Montgomery brothers had formed a working band (under that name), beginning two years of struggle with the economics of the music business. Six months later Coltrane seems to have begun to consider expanding the size of his group. He was regularly adding a second bassist (usually Art Davis) for NYC engagements, and the two bassists were featured on recording sessions in May and June. But Coltrane also seems to have been receptive to other combinations, and late summer brought an invitation to Eric Dolphy to join the quartet.

Dolphy was in Europe in late August - early September of 1961; he returned in mid-September and immediately joined Coltrane's group in Southern California. Montgomery had recorded under hsi own name in New York on August 4, but he evidently was back on the West Coast in September, for he too joined Coltrane's band. The six-piece group played at San Francisco's Jazz Workshop the last two weeks of September (through October 1), and Coltrane brought it to the Monterey Jazz Festival (100 miles south of the city) on Friday, September 22. down beat's Don DeMichael devoted several paragraphs of his review of the festival to Coltrane's performance:

"..... Besides his regular rhythm section, made up of pianist McCoy Tyner, bassist Reggie Workman, and drummer Elvin Jones, Coltrane had guitarist Wes Montgomery and reedman Eric Dolphy with him ..... The group played only three tunes, though it was on stage for almist an hour.

"Montgomery stood out among the soloists, his chorusses marked by his wonderful rhythmic flair. His solos were notable for diversity of approach. On My Favourite Things he used call-and response devices within his solo, with periodic returns to the melody and linear improvisatory passages as counterbalances. On Naima, a ballad, Montgomery employed octaves, the total effect being an extension of the melody. Montgomery's most exciting work - he seemed as if he would swing off the stand - was on the third tune, So What?.

"Coltrane and Dolphy had intonation trouble throughout the set, but both overcame the problem to a certain extent and and played some exciting solos, though neither was as moving or as consistent as Montgomery.

"Even when Coltrane is not playing his best, he has the ability to create an aura of wild excitement at up tempos. On ballads his playing can be soothing, but underneath, there is excitement. Judging by his work this night, Coltrane may be entering another phase of his development; at times, he indulged in what sounded like animal sounds, especially on his second My Favourite Things solo.

"Dolphy played flute (My Favourite Things), bass clarinet (Naima, and alto (So What?. While his flute work was generally good, part of his solo sounded as if he were trying to imitate birds. His use of quarter tones on Things led nowhere. And this seemed his greatest hang-up; none of his solos had a clear direction.

"The ensemble possibilities inherent in the group wre made clear on Naima. Coltrane and Dolphy combined soprano and bass clarinet in the first melody statement, achieving a rich, chocolately sound. They used tenor and bass clarinet on the closing theme statement, the sound becoming darker and heavier. If Coltrane is able to keep this group together, it could turn into one of the most interesting in jazz ....." down beat, November 9, 1961, pages 12-13).

DeMichael was obviously not prepared for the new approach Coltrane and Dolphy were exploring, and his bemused comments can be considered the opening salva in the 'Anti-Jazz Controversy' which raged around the two reed players that fall. Nonetheless, phrases like 'animal sounds' and 'intonation problems' indicate that the freer approach known to us through the Village Vanguard recordingsand the tapes of the subsequent European tour were already much in evidence. The three titles performed (and their length) also foreshadow the familiar repertoire of those later recordings - So What? is of course Impressions (at the time untitled).

DeMichael's favorable reaction to Montgomery paradoxically suggests that the guitarist's solos were more conservative (if equally inventive). His characterization of Montgomery's swing is of course right on the mark. Most other questions however remain unanswerable speculation. Was Coltrane fascinated with Indian music behind his attraction to 'string' sound (Montgomery's sitar to his shenai, so to speak)? Would Coltrane's expectation have 'rubbed off' on Montgomery (as it had to an extent on Cannonball Adderley three years earlier)?

Such questions remain speculation because Montgomery did not join the band permanently. From the 'Jazz Workshop' Coltrane moved to the 'Renaissance' in Los Angeles (October 3-8). Montgomery may have been with the band for part of this time, But John Tynan's violent 'Anti-Jazz' column (written after a visit to the club) lists only Coltrane, Dolphy, Tyner, Workman and Jones. Why Montgomery turned Coltrane down remains equally unanswerable. One historian's allegation that Montgomery's short stay was the result of equally short solo space is not supported, at least not by DeMichael's review. Probably Montgomery's commitment to the Montgomery Brothers Band (in which he was easily the best player) overrode the opportunity that working with Coltrane would have offered. (That the Brothers were still a working band is evidenced by a recording with George Shearing on October 9 and 10, in LA).

Montgomery shared the bandstand at least one more time with Coltrane, in May of 1962. Dolphy had left Coltrane towards the end of March; a mention of his departure in down beat was coupled with the cryptic comment "Trend-ites are wondering if Coltrane will add a guitar" (June 7, 1962, p. 10). The following issue noted that "Wes Montgomery played with John Coltrane's quartet during its stay at the Jazz Workshop here (San Francisco), but declined an offer of permanent membership" (June 21, 1962, p. 45). Again one must assume that the Montgomery Brothers Band still had first call on Wes' talents, although the runion also suggests that both men enjoyed performing together. On May 21 (a Sunday), the last day of the gig, the quartet was further augmented by Dolphy and violinist Michael White.

.....

[some remarks on Wes' further career including his collaborations with the Wynton Kelly Trio complete the article]

I'd say there may be a recording of the Monterey Jazz Festival performance, if any exist at all, which I doubt, in spite of what has been reported. I simply can't imagine someone turned down an offer to buy any tape of this in whatever inferior sound quality ...

[EKE BBB]

Back to the topic...

...anyone knows if any "illegal" tape of this concert has been circulating?

I seriously doubt this - David Wild would have mentioned that. He and Michael Cuscuna wrote about the Trane-Wes collaboration in their magazine disc'ribe many years ago and were searching for tapes back then. This would have been known, as sensational as it is.

Here´s what ghost of miles wrote, many moons ago...

Slightly on-topic, have the tapes with Wes Montgomery and the Quartet surfaced anywhere? I am very curious to hear what that was like. Wes seems an unlikely candidate to me, but I may be wrong.

Up.

Is anyone familiar with this incarnation of the Coltrane Quartet plus? I often wonder what made Wes' sound a likely candidate. If anyone has heard this group, or has an online source describing the music, I'd be very appreciative if they'd post here.

I know it's a topic that's come up numerous times, definitely on the old BNBB and probably here as well. Supposedly there's a low-quality audience tape of a 40 or 45-minute set w/Coltrane and Montgomery from late '61 (Monterey, perhaps?). Supposedly it's not as impressive as we might think. I'd certainly like to hear it if it ever surfaces (somebody on the BNBB reported they'd been offered a copy of this tape for the low, low price of $2,500), but I'm not expecting anything amazing. It's kind of difficult for me to imagine Wes and that late '61 quintet really meshing together--in a way, though, that does pique my curiosity, just to hear how it didn't work as much as how it might have worked.

[AllenLowe]

I love that auto-translation - but what did they mean by " Coltrane tenor played lost sock at home by bridge with Alice and Ravi at the picnic while Wes plectrum plectrum plectrum octaves" ?

[ghost of miles]

Wow... yep, I remember posting that many moons ago indeed. I think I'm more open-minded now to how well Wes' participation might come off... well, how long till those 1943 Earl Hines airshots show up?

[bertrand]

I hope they solve the legal flecos.

This being said, how good can this performance be if Coltrane and Dolphy are only touching their instruments. I want them to actually blow.

Bertrand.

[AllenLowe]

unless they're playing guitar along with Wes -

[ghost of miles]

unless they're playing guitar along with Wes -

In which case Shorty Petterstein's interviewer wants to know how they "can blow on a stringed instrument."

[Swinging Swede]

Btw, this session is not previously unknown; it is mentioned in the Coltrane discography at jazzdisco.org as rejected, for example. It is great to see it coming out though. There are also several late studio session that have recently been discovered, including one later than the Olatunji concert. These are good years for Coltrane fans.

Studio material after the Olatunji concert? (It must be heavy, heavy stuff.) Was this discussed on the board? Is it really coming out? Inquiring minds need to know.

It probably will come out on Impulse. This is from Allan J. Sutherland's Coltrane Sessionography, which also lists track timings:

Date: 17 May 1967.

Place: Van Gelder Studio- Englewood Cliffs, NJ.

Ensemble: John Coltrane Sextet: John Coltrane tenor sax, Pharoah Sanders alto sax, Alice Coltrane piano, Jimmy Garrison bass, Rashied Ali drums, Algie DeWitt Bata drum.

Recording: Commercial for Impulse.

1. None Other (14:28) (Unissued.)

2. Collidoscope (35:52) (Unissued.)

Notes: Tapes for this session were recently discovered, and are rumoured to be released sometime in the future.

50 minutes - that's a whole album in itself!

Going backwards there are other late unissued studio sessions:

Date: March 29, 1967.

Place: Van Gelder Studio- Englewood Cliffs, NJ.

Ensemble: John Coltrane Quartet: John Coltrane tenor sax, Alice Coltrane piano, Jimmy Garrison bass, Rashied Ali drums,

Recording: Commercial for Impulse.

1. Number Eight (5:01) (Unissued.)

2. Number Seven (3:18) (Unissued.)

3. Number Six (2:12) (Unissued.)

4. Number Five (6:18) (Unissued.)

5. Number Four (4:02) (Unissued.)

6. Number Two (4:09) (Unissued.)

Notes: Tapes for this session were recently discovered, and are rumoured to be released sometime in the future.

and

Date: 27 February 1967.

Place: Van Gelder Studio- Englewood Cliffs, NJ.

Ensemble: John Coltrane Quintet: John Coltrane tenor sax, Alice Coltrane piano, Jimmy Garrison bass, Rashied Ali drums, Marion Brown bells.

Recording: Commercial for Impulse.

1. E Minor (6:61) (Unissued.)

2. Half Steps (7:10) (Unissued.)

Notes: Tapes for this session were recently discovered, and are rumoured to be released sometime in the future.

and

Date: 28 April, 1966.

Place: Van Gelder Studio- Englewood Cliffs, NJ.

Ensemble: John Coltrane Quintet: John Coltrane soprano sax, tenor sax, Pharoah Sanders flute, tenor sax, Alice Coltrane piano, Jimmy Garrison bass, Rashied Ali drums,

Recording: Commercial for Impulse.

1. Call (9:20) (Unissued.)

2. Leo (9:40) (Unissued.)

Notes: Tapes for this session were recently discovered, and are rumoured to be released sometime in the future.

and

Date: 21 April 1966.

Place: Van Gelder Studio- Englewood Cliffs, NJ.

Ensemble: John Coltrane Quintet: John Coltrane soprano sax, tenor sax, Pharoah Sanders flute, tenor sax, Alice Coltrane piano, Jimmy Garrison bass, Rashied Ali drums,

Recording: Commercial for Impulse.

1. Darkness (10:43) (Unissued.)

2. Lead Us On (8:20) (Unissued.)

3. Leo (18:00) (Unissued.)

4. Peace on Earth (5:20) (Unissued.)

Notes: Tapes for this session were recently discovered, and are rumoured to be released sometime in the future.

So there is now enough known unissued material for three studio albums from 1966-67!

There are also numerous unissued live sessions from throughout the 60s, so there is no shortage of new Coltrane to release, that's for certain. This one may be of particular interest:

Date: 19 February 1966.

Place: Philharmonic Hall, New York City, NY.

Ensemble: John Coltrane soprano sax, tenor sax, Donald Ayler trumpet, Carlos Ward tenor sax, Pharoah Sanders, Albert Ayler tenor sax, Alice Coltrane piano, Jimmy Garrison bass, Rasjied Ali, J. C. Moses drums,

Recording: Private tape, generally unavailable.

1. My Favorite Things (?:??) (Unissued.)

2. Om (?:??) (Unissued.)

Notes: The tape is in the possession of the Coltrane family.

And who knows what other things are out there and not known to the discographies yet?

[cayetano]

¿True or false? ¿Who knows? Only a warning for the foreigners: today is "Santos Inocentes" here in Spain (equivalent to April Fool's Day).

[ep1str0phy]

Christ, 2005 isn't done yet. On a side note--Marion Brown on bells? Come on, man.