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David Axelrod


ghost of miles

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Was listening to Cannonball's DOMINATION today and noticed that David Axelrod was the producer. I know that his name pops up on quite a few other 1960s titles, by Cannonball, Lou Rawls, and others; prompted to start this topic because an EMI compilation of his, THE EDGE, has shown up on a couple of "Best-of-2005-reissues" lists that I've seen. That, evidently, is an anthology of sessions that he produced; what about his own late-1960s music for Capitol? Worth checking out?

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Guest akanalog

his own albums from the late 60s, like the blake inspired stuff, definitely have a pretty original sound to them. once you hear some of them you will recognize having heard some of the stuff before in movies or commercials. he got a good drum sound and got a heavy deep orchestrated sound. masses of strings and stuff, but over a good beat. not disco-ey strings. just like powerful accenting strings. dramatic and mysterious sounding. and some vocals-not sung vocals but like chorus stuff to go with the strings. then he got more commercial. i remember a bad version of "you're too vain" with cheesy vocals from the 70s. didn't he produce a hip rock record too? the dirty prunes or something? electric prunes?

however i always found him an overrated producer. people take an axelrod production to be a sign of good music but i don't see it. i could be down on him right now as i was just listening to "northern windows" by hampton hawes which is an axelrod production and is not a very good album, IMO.

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Guest akanalog

chuck is right-axelod definitely produced a lot of good earlier jazz albums too and i guess i just always thought his role was more marginal in those affairs but i have no idea. like a cannonball adderley album would have been good regardless of axelrod being the producer or not. like what was the "axelrod touch" on those albums?

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First place I encountered his name was as producer for some very nice Hifi records - Harold Land's The Fox and Elmo Hope's Trio.

those are two of my favorite LPs in the world...but i'm not sure they're what DA is most "known for". rather, i'd say it's his funk dates on Capitol featuring Adderley (and Co.).

there's a good interview/article on him in the last Wax Poetics. i'd recommend getting it. it's a good publication and those things go OOP pretty quickly. (issue #1 regularly goes for $100 on ebay...and it's only a couple years old!!)

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Guest akanalog

yeah so what is he known for?

i am asking in the sense i know axelrod produced a lot of great "straight" jazz albums, but how much of the credit goes to him and how much was it just the great players involved? i guess i could say the same thing about his funky stuff also (the funk inc., the hawes i mentioned, etc...). because his "good" solo stuff-the earlier less commercial stuff, had a real original sound which i don't hear on any of the stuff he produced with the exception of maybe that rock band whose name i can't remember yet (was the album called "an electic mass" or something like that?).

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Axelrod produced two LPs of Funk Inc for Prestige - "Superfunk", which wasn't as good as any of their first 3 LPs which had been produced by Bob Porter and Ozzie Cadena, and "Priced to sell" which was vastly inferior even to "Superfunk". The former LP did have a few good solos on it. He also produced Gene Ammons' "Brasswind" which, in my view, was the worst album Jug ever made!

Frankly, "Domination" isn't as good as most Cannonball's albums. But Cannon rose above what Axelrod was doing, I think.

Basically, I think Axelrod stinks. My guess is that "The fox" is good because he did what a producer of jazz records is supposed to do; make sure the beer and sandwiches come on time; oh, and the musicians, as well.

MG

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Axelrod produced two LPs of Funk Inc for Prestige - "Superfunk", which wasn't as good as any of their first 3 LPs which had been produced by Bob Porter and Ozzie Cadena, and "Priced to sell" which was vastly inferior even to "Superfunk". The former LP did have a few good solos on it.

I like the Curtis Mayfield cover and the song "Goodbye, So Long" on Superfunk, as well as the title track from Priced To Sell. I'll have to check out the previous 3 Funk, Inc. albums if they're better! Thanks MG.

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Axelrod produced two LPs of Funk Inc for Prestige - "Superfunk", which wasn't as good as any of their first 3 LPs which had been produced by Bob Porter and Ozzie Cadena, and "Priced to sell" which was vastly inferior even to "Superfunk". The former LP did have a few good solos on it.

I like the Curtis Mayfield cover and the song "Goodbye, So Long" on Superfunk, as well as the title track from Priced To Sell. I'll have to check out the previous 3 Funk, Inc. albums if they're better! Thanks MG.

There isn't a Curtis Mayfield cover on "Superfunk". The CM cover is "Give me your love" from the "Hangin' out" LP, which was their 3rd. That's on the same CD as "Superfunk". I love the Steve Weakley solo on that track. I also love "Smokin' at Tiffany's" from that LP; it's the same tune (though credited to Funk Inc) as the title track from Jack McDuff's "Do it now". Think I'll play that next.

If you've got the CD with "Superfunk" and "Hangin' out" - CDBGPD058, you only need CDBGP040, which has "Funk Inc" and "Chicken Lickin'" on it, for the complete set of their first bunch of records. I don't think "Urban Renewal", which they recorded in 1995 (produced by Bob Porter - PRCD11001) is still available. The only people from the earlier band still there in '95 were Bobby Whatley and Cecil Hunt. Still a fine album, though. Think I'll get that out and give it a spin (also).

MG

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Axelrod produced two LPs of Funk Inc for Prestige - "Superfunk", which wasn't as good as any of their first 3 LPs which had been produced by Bob Porter and Ozzie Cadena, and "Priced to sell" which was vastly inferior even to "Superfunk". The former LP did have a few good solos on it. He also produced Gene Ammons' "Brasswind" which, in my view, was the worst album Jug ever made!

Frankly, "Domination" isn't as good as most Cannonball's albums. But Cannon rose above what Axelrod was doing, I think.

Basically, I think Axelrod stinks. My guess is that "The fox" is good because he did what a producer of jazz records is supposed to do; make sure the beer and sandwiches come on time; oh, and the musicians, as well.

MG

listen, i'm not arguing that DA saved music or anything. all the same, i hardly think he "stinks". by this are you saying that he ruined more sessions than he aided? i'm curious why you feel this way...

also, i believe it's worth mentioning that most folks deep into the Axelrod funk camp are there for the beats and not the solos. in fact, i'd be willing to argue that MOST fans of the funky Axelrod dates are there for the beats and not the solos. (this makes you neither right nor wrong, of course. just an observation.) the same can probably be said for Ozzie as well, i think...

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Guest akanalog

you can't really say axelrod stinks because you can tell from his solo productions that he knew what he was doing and had some original ideas. i mean as a jazz producer i am sure his role was limited and hence his producer rep is overrated (also "northern windows" is so much lamer than the hampton hawes albums before and after it-the other funky dates he did have much more soul, IMO) but the man had skills.

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Guest akanalog

i guess now that you mention it, chuck, a lot of LPs i have from that time period on mainstream and MPS mostly, seem to have photos of the producers along with band photos and name the producers prominently in the credits. i definitely know what bob shad looks like now, for instance. and i'm not sure i need to.

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i guess now that you mention it, chuck, a lot of LPs i have from that time period on mainstream and MPS mostly, seem to have photos of the producers along with band photos and name the producers prominently in the credits. i definitely know what bob shad looks like now, for instance. and i'm not sure i need to.

Please don't misunderstand me. I think producers get too little credit for great records BUT I do believe some/many overstep the boundries of "good taste"/"musical quality". Bob Shad should have had his face all over a bunch of Mercury lps. :) On the other hand, I think he'd have been better served if he'd left his name off some later jobs.

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Bob Shad always looked like he was having a bad day --

sorta like a Joe Paterno running the studio and pissed about being over budget.

Bob Thiele's mug and cig were ubiquitous inside too many Impulse gatefold liners.

Creed Taylor is more amazing for NOT getting 'face time' on his multi-hundred LPs.

(There's just a couple pics of him on his early ABC/Paramount productions.)

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Creed Taylor is more amazing for NOT getting 'face time' on his multi-hundred LPs.

(There's just a couple pics of him on his early ABC/Paramount productions.)

Actually he got his mug on a couple, but he had a facsimile of his sig (Looked like Crud Taylor to me) on most of his jobs.

Bob Thiele did get his pic used a bunch of times but he "interfered" far less than his "position in the business" could dictate. Late in his career, with his own labels, he crossed the line.

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Axelrod produced two LPs of Funk Inc for Prestige - "Superfunk", which wasn't as good as any of their first 3 LPs which had been produced by Bob Porter and Ozzie Cadena, and "Priced to sell" which was vastly inferior even to "Superfunk". The former LP did have a few good solos on it. He also produced Gene Ammons' "Brasswind" which, in my view, was the worst album Jug ever made!

Frankly, "Domination" isn't as good as most Cannonball's albums. But Cannon rose above what Axelrod was doing, I think.

Basically, I think Axelrod stinks. My guess is that "The fox" is good because he did what a producer of jazz records is supposed to do; make sure the beer and sandwiches come on time; oh, and the musicians, as well.

MG

listen, i'm not arguing that DA saved music or anything. all the same, i hardly think he "stinks". by this are you saying that he ruined more sessions than he aided? i'm curious why you feel this way...

also, i believe it's worth mentioning that most folks deep into the Axelrod funk camp are there for the beats and not the solos. in fact, i'd be willing to argue that MOST fans of the funky Axelrod dates are there for the beats and not the solos. (this makes you neither right nor wrong, of course. just an observation.) the same can probably be said for Ozzie as well, i think...

I think DA stinks because he isn't anywhere in even the nearby league compared to producers who really DID (and in some cases still do) know how to make great jazz records:

Bob Porter

Houston Person

Esmond Edwards

Ozzie Cadena

Orrin Keepnews

Alfred Lion (through the agency of Ike Quebec, then Duke Pearson)

Francis Wolff

Nesuhi Ertegun

Joel Dorn

Richard Bock

Lester Koenig

BobThiele

That's like the first league, in my view. DA isn't even in the second, which would have people in it like:

Bob Koester

Don Schlitten

Kenny Clarke

Cal Lampley

League 3:

Sonny Lester

Creed Taylor

Ed Michel

Maybe Axelrod fits in here - simply for the few great recordings he did produce with Cannonball, Land etc. Lester and Taylor had their moments, too. And their overproduced stuff was a lot better than Axelrod's overproduced stuff.

MG

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Not only do I love Axelrod's productions for Cannonball Adderley, but his albums as leader for Capitol are amongst my very favourites. They are highly original, distinctive and unique. No wonder they have been plundered for samples - the combination of Earl Palmer's funk breaks and Carole Kaye's snaking basslines are a real winner. A nice touch of psychedelia with fuzz-guitar and vibrato-less strings.

Song Of Innocence, Song Of Experience, Earth Rot and The Auction are all proof IMO that Axelrod does not stink... at all.

I also highly rate 2 of his mid-70's albums: Seriously Deep (Polydor) and Heavy Axe (Fantasy).

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Not only do I love Axelrod's productions for Cannonball Adderley, but his albums as leader for Capitol are amongst my very favourites. They are highly original, distinctive and unique. No wonder they have been plundered for samples - the combination of Earl Palmer's funk breaks and Carole Kaye's snaking basslines are a real winner. A nice touch of psychedelia with fuzz-guitar and vibrato-less strings.

Song Of Innocence, Song Of Experience, Earth Rot and The Auction are all proof IMO that Axelrod does not stink... at all.

I also highly rate 2 of his mid-70's albums: Seriously Deep (Polydor) and Heavy Axe (Fantasy).

OK

MG

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Creed Taylor is more amazing for NOT getting 'face time' on his multi-hundred LPs.

(There's just a couple pics of him on his early ABC/Paramount productions.)

Bob Thiele... Late in his career, with his own labels, he crossed the line.

Yeah, that Theresa Brewer/Ellington thing damn near had me forgetting the entire Impulse! catalog. :g:g:g

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just had a listen to Cannonball's Accent On Africa, a 1968 Capitol side that Axlerod produced and arranged. Definitely more of an "Axelrod Project" than a Cannonball one, which goes to Chuck's poiints. Other than a few moments here and there that show, as per another thread, the ongoing Cannonball digesting of Coltrane, he sounds like a guest on his own album.

Still, it's a musically technically interesting album. Axelrod paints in broad strokes that are bright but never florescent (his writing in the big band passages - assuming that it is his writng and is not ghosted - suggests Kenton without at all recommending him. a pretty nifty trick in and of itself) and there's a layering of textures and dynamics in the mix that is definitely the work of somebody with both a vision and the chops to pull it off. Maybe not my cup of tea from a personal standpoint, but I gotta respect it nevertheless. It's "Technicolor" yet controlled, not at all an easy a combination to pull off. The "studio as an instrument" approach to making albums applied to jazz. Not sure what, if anything, jazz gets out of the deal musically, but like I said, the technical interest (in terms of the production/recording/assembly process) alone is something I can't deny. It's definitely "a commercial" approach but not at all "lowest common denominator" musically. Too many ingredients!

Not at all familiar with his work as a leader, but if it's mostly productions like this one, I can definitely see the attraction, as well as why this online reviewer of Stan Kenton's Hair album referred to that album's arranger Ralph Carmichael as "the Christian Axelrod".

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  • 1 month later...

Per Brandon's earlier post, Part 2 of the Axelrod interview is now available in Wax Poetics #15--the same issue that has Brownie's really cool photos from the New Thing scene. A fair amount of discussion of some of the Cannonball/DA projects, leading to exchanges like this:

Interviewer: They were also both on SOUL OF THE BIBLE. (Hands DA record)

DA: This is terrible. Just terrible. SOUL OF THE ZODIAC was good. This is terrible.

Interviewer: It's one of Cannonball's rarest records.

DA: It's horrible; it should be rare. It should be dead.

DA goes on to say that while the music for the record was great, the spoken-word parts were what made it so bad, IHO.

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