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BFT 32 Discussion disc 1


Stefan Wood

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Track 1 HAS to be Horace Silver! I'm sure I don't have this album, but will probably amend that once I find out the answer!

More guesses later. Had to get that one outta the way!

1-1 - certainly is Horace Silver on Blue Note. Great writing, great playing, great execution all around. Not a wasted note. The Blue Note Sound in a nutshell.

1-2 - Writing not too interesting (the modulations are kind of annoying), the drummer was a little cute at first, then burned. The trupeter was Clifford-Brown influenced and quite good (Bill Hardman?). Alto player sounds like a young Jackie McLean, and solos well. Piano solo was out there, kind of weird.

1-3- Hammond B-3 rules! Well-writtne song. I don't normally like bass players on organ cuts, but I do here. Drummer cooks. Guitar and B-3 in the groove. Great stuff.

1-4 - Hate the trombone multiphonics gimmick. Whole performance is so dated, as so much 70's stuff is. Sounds like the theme from the big chase scene in 'Shaft Offs Superfly' or whatever. The drummer is a monster, but to what purpose? Pretty good electric piano solo.

51- - I don't enjoy this sort of heavy latin percussion, as I find it makes the rhythm very static, and this cut suffers from that.The tenor player is excellent, sounds like Joe Henderson. The trumpet player is a latin guy, I'm guessing Luis Gasca. Plays his butt off. I liek both the trumpet and the tenor solos. The writing is very good, I just don't like the arrangement with the percussion, and the bass player doesn't sound like a jazz guy.

1-6 - Later organ side (you can tell by the guitar sound). Love the tenor player's sound. I'd guess Eric Alexander before he really found his voice. I love hearing him play anything, even warmup scales ( and that's from real experience with him). Trumpet player also does good job. The whole group SOUNDS great, good composition, which makes the performance thoroughly enjoyalbe even though it isn't particularly memorable. Drummer pushes the group along nicely.

1-7 Tenor player and drummer are both MONSTERS, each obviously giants - you don't miss the other instruments at all.

1-8 They certainly have the hard bop concept down, yet I find the playing on this to be incredibl sloppy. The sax player is painfully bad, the trumpet only a little better. The drummer is at least spirited if not particularly tight. Suspect the recording was on a small label and underrehearsed.

1-9 This is why I listen to jazz. Beautiful and moving. Every instrument perfect in its role. Great writing, great playing. Fabulous drummer. I know this piece but can't place it.

1-10 The writing and arranging are fabulous, but the solos weren't very good, which makes me think the piece must not be a good one to improvise on. The soprano solo was really tedious. A lot of guys who are good tenor/alto players have no conception on soprano, and it was unfortunate that everyone picked up that instrument in the 70's. Very few played it well to my ears. Joe Farrell was one who did.

1-11 Trombone and Hammond B-3 aren't my idea of a great combination, but this is really good. Can't wait to find out what it is,and get it. I really like how the B-3 player comps behind the soloists. He's great. Very nice guitar solo. Trombone player is one of the best I've heard. Very few on that instrument I like (JJ, Curitis Fuller, Moncur, Conrad Herwig), but I'll add this guy to the list. Love the tenor and organ solos. Great, great track.

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1. HORACE SILVER: Jazz Has a Sense of Humor (Verve)

"Not Enough Mama Part 1"

Ryan Kisor

Jimmy Greene

John Webber

Willie Jones III

These are all my pals and they get right in Silverville as well as anyone around today. This is as good a band as Horace could have. Too bad they hardly got to work.

3. EDDY LOUISS:

"Bohemia After Dark"

Jimmy Gourley

Guy Pederson

Kenny Clarke

5. Joe Henderson with ??

7. "Three Little Words"

Certainly not Newk, but a little of his influence is there. The tone reminded me a little of 1960s Joe Farrell but Joe Farrell plays a lot better than this guy, who probably wishes he could do another take.

9. EASTERN REBELLION (Timeless)

"5/4 thing"

George Coleman

Cedar Walton

Sam Jones

Billy Higgins

Classic record. Some of the best George Coleman on record.

10. Not much use out of all those horns, but nice sound and voicings nonetheless. No idea who this is.

11. BIG JOHN PATTON: Soul Connection (Nilva)

"The Coaster"

Grachan Moncur

Grant Reed

Melvin Sparks

Alvin Queen

Sorry to say it, but this version made me run to the stacks to pull out "Evolution."

The other tracks I couldn't identify and maybe that's a good thing!

Edited by Michael Weiss
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1. HORACE SILVER: Jazz Has a Sense of Humor (Verve)

"Not Enough Mama Part 1"

Ryan Kisor

Jimmy Greene

John Webber

Willie Jones III

These are all my pals and they get right in Silverville as well as anyone around today. This is as good a band as Horace could have. Too bad they hardly got to work.

Yes, they sounded great with Silver! We saw Webber and Jones in Philly as the rhythm section for Eric Alexander/Harold Mabern, and they were excellent. I got to talk with Jones for awhile afterwards, very gracious guy.

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I think I know number 9 – the thing is the time signature is in the title. Written by the tenor player but he is not the leader..er…what else can I say? I remember them all on this one, made a whole series of albums and I used to have all the LP’s. The tenor player changed though, after this album, to a guy who sadly passed away not all that long ago. Trombone, and even a strange trumpet player on one album, were added.

3 – Bohemia After Dark by Oscar Pettiford is the tune. Just a wild guess at Grant Green.

1 sounds like Silver but I don’t know the front line. When I heard the intro I thought I knew the tune but it never arrived.

2 My usual technique of thinking of a name and then keeping on thinking of it until I’m sure it’s him didn’t work. I thought first of Sonny Criss but sure that is wrong. Jackie McLean?

4 Crusaders? Not my kind of thing at all.

7 Three Little Words is the tune I guess but don’t know any more – not keen on this kind of playing myself.

5 Guessing again at Joe Henderson.

I liked a lot of the tracks, excluding the organ ones (NMCOT), but could not guess anything. As always, I think I know some of the sounds but can’t put any names there. But thanks for an entertaining, well balanced and fun disc, Stefan. Now I shall look at other comments to see what I can see.

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I tried disk one in CD-P and the TOC was readable but only Track1 and part of track 2 is spoiled so I can give it a try already:

#Track2 - is ok for me....a rather expressive Tenor... he has definetely heard J.McLean

# Track3... i heard it recently on a Jazz in Paris one, possible Eddy Louiss with Bohemia after dark. fine disc and fine musician BTW.

#Track4... is this from the Jazz Crusaders Mosaic ;) ...sounds a bit like like it with the trombone

# track5.. no clue yet

# track6 .. from the instrumentation I would believe this to be Grant Green on guitar....

#track7&8...no clue yet

#Track9 I like this very much and I'm sure I know it from somewhere...will dig into this further but if I shouldn't have, it gets on my want list.

#Track 10 a rather Arranger type piece here. wild guess: An Oliver Nelson arrangement ????

# Track 11: no real clue, nicely swinging and a great trombone !

I will post more later specially when having the other disc in hands and can listen to track1 as well. All in all some I really like and none I would dislike.

Fine compilation Stefan !

Cheers, Tjobbe

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1. After just a few bars, it’s clearly a Horace Silver group. I don’t own this one, but I’d say it’s from one of his more recent CD’s. Solid stuff.

2. This is new to me. Nice head, love the drums. Pretty tasty trumpet solo. Ditto the alto. Very together overall, although I’m not sure I’d need to buy it. No guesses.

3. Never heard this before either, although I do recognize the tune. I like the organist (wish he’d stretched out more) and the drummer. Guitar solo didn’t do too much for me.

4. Sounds like a 70’s tv theme. I’m not much for 70’s tv themes. Pretty well done, though. No ideas who this could be.

5. Excellent playing, although not really my thing. Great energy on this (maybe too much, for my taste). Very well executed and tight. A fusion of latin and 60’s-style hard bop. The piano on this doesn’t really do it for me somehow.

6. Sounds like a Criss Cross date. I don’t love the tune, but it is interesting, and very well executed. I may own this one...

7. Reminiscent of Sonny Rollins... but without some of the edge, imagination, and flair. Three Little Words is the tune. Not bad at all, but I’d rather listen to Sonny.

8. I’m not crazy about this composition either... kind of mundane to my ears. The musicianship is a notch below some of the other tracks here, imo.

9. I’m kind of torn on this one. The writing is prettier and more interesting than some of the other originals here, imo, but it still has a sort of haphazardness about it (which I find in a lot of jazz composition) that doesn’t work for me. It sounds unique and different, but not really “natural” to my ears. Very subjective thing, no doubt, but that’s my take (and that means today... I could change my mind tomorrow). The playing is very good all around, though.

10. Well, it seems that a lot of compositions have been chosen that just aren’t moving me. For me it’s very important to have a strong starting point, something to grab my attention and interest before the soloing gets started. This is another one that kind of fails to do that for me. I can still enjoy this (and some of the previous tracks) regardless, because of the caliber of players I’m hearing, but it’s more difficult to really connect in a serious way.

11. Fairly groovy tune here, good playing, but not a great deal of meat for me in terms of the structure. I’m not very impressed by the bone’s opening statement. The guitarist doesn’t show much taste (blows his wad way too quickly, imo), and I’m not too impressed with his sound. Firecracker guitar players are a dime a dozen. The bone sounds more inspired during his solo, and the rhythm section is grooving. Tenor is okay... it seems to be more about what licks he knows than what he wants to say. The organist must be the leader on this... he sounds way more mature than the others, and really takes his time and develops a nice musical statement. Very nice drumming on this, too.

Many thanks for getting these discs out so quickly, Stefan. :tup

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1. Horace Silver! Instantly recognizable. At first I was puzzled, because I thought I knew all those classic Blue Note albums, and did not recognize this track, or the soloists. This is recent, probably from the Verve album he made a couple of years ago. The sound gave it away – it’s clearly not Rudy’s usual stereo soundstage. Funny, this kind of demonstrates that that one can’t always go home. When his music evolved in the late 60’s, first with the “United States of Mind” series, which I hated, and then with the “Silver And” series, which were OK, I longed for the days of the quintet. Most of the LP’s he made for his own label were marred by lame vocals, and the “comeback” albums on Columbia and Impulse were disappointing. The Verve album (can’t recall the title, something like “Jazz Has a Sense of Humor”) was a clear attempt to go back to the classic quintet sound, yet, to these ears, it was lacking, as if was just dredging up old motifs from those bygone years. Spirited, but shallow.

2. Well, this seems to be a vintage track, but I can’t place it. A nice full-toned trumpet player, very strong alto, nice performance all around. :tup

3. “Bohemia After Dark”, Oscar Pettiford’s tune. Organist clearly in the Jimmy Smith camp – Baby Face Willette maybe? Guitarist gets into the octave thing, but I don’t think it’s Wes. A nice driving track.

4. This was pretty trite, I thought. Neither the trombonist or the tenor have got a whole lot happening. At first I was reminded of the early 70’s Crusaders, maybe this is the group that Wayne Henderson put together after leaving the Crusaders – the Freedom Sounds. Still, I think Wayne is a better trombonist than this guy, and as for the tenor player – no thanks. :beee:

5. I wanted to like this, but the soloists are lacking. Tenor player adopts a Joe Henderson kind of sound, but running up and down the horn doesn’t make for interesting music. The trumpeter fares slightly better, but again, not much in the idea department. For me, the best part of this track is after the horn solos, when the band finds a nice groove, and the timbale and conga players get a workout. I could guess Tito Puente or Mongo Santamaria, but it’s just be a guess.

6. Very reminiscent of Grant Green, can’t identify the session. I feel I should know the tenor player, but he’s not grabbing me. Very nice organ solo, swinging and thoughtful. Fine trumpet as well. Liked this overall.

7. My first thought was Joe Farrell with Elvin Jones, but after hearing this a couple of times, I’m not so sure, and on the second listen I noticed that it was just the two of them, no bassist. Eventually it is revealed that the tune is “Three Little Words”, a tune I associate with Sonny Rollins. Perhaps an homage to Sonny here? But from who?

8. A nice loping groove here, and an interesting compostion. The rhythmic change gives them a little trouble, suggesting that this is probably not a working band. Nonetheless, I liked the trumpet, am less enamored of the tenor player, a little too much out of Trane for me. The onslaught of Trane clones in the 70’s has permanently set me against this school, as much as I love Trane.

9. George Coleman, probably from the “Amsterdam After Dark” album on Timeless. A really fine session, but I can’t remember who’s on it with him! This one is is 5/4, and it swings. Love George, thumbs up! :tup

10. This starts out nice, with nice writing and good ensemble playing, but after a couple of listens, the harmonically aimless soprano solo began to bother me. It’s interesting that we have a good sized ensemble here, but only the soprano and piano players solo. Might this be Bill Kirchner’s octet?

11. I believe the tune is Grachan Moncur’s “Air Raid”. My guess is that this is from a Criss Cross session, perhaps Mel Rhyne at the organ? The trombonist is barely making it. Nice guitar, maybe Peter Bernstein? The tenor generates a little excitement, and the organist plays a very fine solo. I used to enthusiatic about Criss Croos, but found that the formula was getting tired after a while – a few originals, and the requisite tune or two from a classic Blue Note album. This follows that formula. Could the trombonist be Moncur himself? If so, it’s kinda sad.

Even with the few negatives, I liked most of what I heard here! Thanks, Stefan, especially for providing me with a replacement disc when the first one arrived damaged. Where are the rest of you guys??? :o

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Getting to this BFT kind of late and still have yet to hear Disc 2 but here goes some impressions and positive identifications of two tracks. Usual disclaimers re not having seen previous responses altho I was tempted.

1) Gots to be Horace, he's so identifiable both playing and compositionally. However the sidemen have me very stumped as they're not from one of his earlier Blue Note dates, and most probably younger cats within the past ten years or so. Trumpeter is great and reminds me of Ryan Kisor. Can't place anyone else. Very nice, typically cooking, Silver track.

2) Liked the alto, but afraid I have no guesses here.

3) Well, I know the tune - "Bohemia After Dark" - but I'm pathetic when it comes to id'g organists. Enjoyable.

4) Ooh, NMCOT. If a trombone isn't melodic, it becomes rough listening for me.

5) Must be Joe Henderson on tenor but can't recognize anyone else, except there's a phrase in the melody of this piece that's very evocative of "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child".

6) Can't contribute here.

7) Definitely Joe Farrell on a standard that Rollins still plays. I then went to my stacks and, sure enough, found the CD (eye catching cover, BTW) with which I'm not really familiar with, having picked it up a year or so ago with a bunch of other European label CDs for only $5. Anyway, here's the link:

Farrell-Hayes

8) see #6

9) Well, I suspect this one has been id'd by others in this thread as it comes from an essential Cedar CD. The tenor, BTW, is instantly identifiable. A real giant.

Cedar-GC

10) Pleasant enough soprano playing, but that's about it.

11) I love this tune - "The Coaster" - but the version from Moncur's EVOLUTION session (with Tony, Jackie, Hutch, Lee, !!!!) is the definitive one by far. This may be the composer on trombone but this version pales severely.

All in all, interesting listening. Some very good tracks.

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Sorry to be slow with these responses! I've had a listen several times, although been short on time to scribble some ideas.

1. Very enjoyable, but a little generic-sounding to my ears. A Horace Silver composition, I'd agree (I unfortunately spotted the name before realising that I should post without reading previous answers) - although I'm not sure that I'd necessarily have picked him from his solo here (LH seems not to be doing the usual Silver thing)? The comping remains very 'Horace', though. And, not damning with faint praise in the slightest, the two horn soloists are exceedingly competent around the changes. Couldn't begin to identify them, though.

2. Fascinating! I'm not sure I could identify any players, but like a lot of what goes on here. The modulating tune could be a little annoying, but actually for me contributes nicely to the slightly off-the-wall goings on. Don't know about the trumpeter, although I like his stuff. Alto is very interesting: bits of Cannonball (the swing); bits of Jackie McLean (the headlong intensity; the tart, slightly sharp tone); bits of Trane; and bits of Sonny Red (the 'rawness'). Pianist is wonderful. His soloing is more interesting than his comping, for me. His identity isn't fully formed, I don't think, in his comping, where he flits between hard-boppish figurations, and more modern, quartal-sounding voicings. These two seem a little incongruent to me. But the soloing is great. The end of the solo where he makes the hints at freedom is really nice. I'd like to hear more, for sure.

3. Oscar Pettiford's 'Bohemia after Dark'. Not a bad performance, but not an instant favourite. I think it's a little fast to swing really hard like this tune feels it wants to do. A few of the organist's registrations seemed a little cumbersome to me. I'm not sure what I think about organ with a bass player. It CAN work, for sure, but I don't know here...

4. Got quite a nice groove - reminiscent of some of the very late Grant Green. Don't know about those trombone multiphonics, although the player is technically highly accomplished, for sure. But the piece doesn't really do it for me. Too much of a vehicle for the 'bone player. Is it Claude Bartee on tenor? Don't think so, but he's heard him. Not sure about the kicks in the solos, either - they're a bit fusion-y for me. The whole thing would have been much more idiomatic if they'd let it groove straight, IMHO.

5. Interesting to compare with track 1. A more interesting latin feel than track 1, although still fairly generic hard bop. Is it Joe Henderson? I don't really know...It's an interesting solo, actually! I don't know my trumpet players from this time-period well enough. It's Hubbard-influenced...could it be FH? Has a few of the licks. Not especially keen on the piano player, who's playing patterns to my ears.

6. Don't know. Is it possibly Grant Green? Sounds very much like him - tone, phrasing. BUT, there's something which tells me perhaps I'm looking a little early. Not to inspired with the tenor. It's OK, but fairly conventional (Henderson-influenced, I'd say).

7. Three Little Words is the tune. Some nice drumming - shame it sounds like it was recorded in the bath. A few too many obvious quotes in the horn playing, perhaps, but I like it all the same. I don't immediately recognise the player. Again, without damning with faint praise, I suspect I'd rather hear this type of thing live than on record. Anxiety of influence must be enormous, BTW, to play one of the tunes so associated with Sonny in a context such as this, in which he'd have torn the tune apart for sure.

8. Not for me. The piano player is risking RSI, and the groove isn't worth it (IMHO, as ever! :) ).

9. My guess, although I don't know much of the stuff, would be the George Coleman/Cedar Walton 'Eastern Rebellion' band. Composition is very Shorter-influenced to my ears - could have featured, say, on 'Night Dreamer'. Consistently with this, Walton (if it is him) has a very McCoy-tinged thing going on at the start. I take it the drummer is Billy Higgins? I enjoy this, but no more than that (although Coleman fairly eats the tune!)

10. Not a sound I like, from the band or the soloist. The voicings are a little too studied to my ears. Of course I'll have embarassed myself if it is Gil Evans, but it sounds very sub-Gil Evans to me. The sax solo...NO! I can't stand the tone, the ideas don't interest me. Oh well! Piano player doesn't do much more for me, either. Very generic - he's learned his chords and scales by the book. Great - now play some music rather than run them.

Edited because I forgot the last track!

11. This is growing on me. A nice organ sound, definitely. Very warm, coherent registration. Don't know the trombone player offhand. Is the guitarist Melvin Sparks? I'm not so good with guitarists, but have just been listening to Lonnie Smith's 'Think', and they're coming from the same place! Nice comping behind the guitar solo from all involved. Tenor I'm ambivalent about - he's running his scales a little bit, but is also really melodic in places. Don't know the tone, though. Organ solo - very familiar - is it John Patton? A few quartal touches in there as well which I'd associate with later Patton or most Larry Young, but it's not Larry Young, I don't think.

A nice test, thank you! I especially like track 2. I'm eager to hear the answers, of course, and to hazard some more (doubtless similarly wide-of-the-mark) guesses to disc two.

Edited by Red
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  • 3 weeks later...

Okay, this time it's the real disc one I'm listening. These are my initial thoughts on first listen without any peeking or use of AMG etc.

Track 1: If that isn't Horace Silver, I don't know. Must be one of his very last CDs, could be Brian Lynch on trumpet, sure is Louis Hayes on drums. I stopped buying them 'cause I didn't like his first Impulse/Verve CD, but this is much better. So ......

Track 2: Very interesting, but I have no idea, I'd say 1960's and I probably know some of these players but haven't heard this. Like it.

Track 3: "Bohemia After Dark" on organ? And with a double bass? Well ..... this strikes familiar notes. Very nice mellow guitarist. Oh, Kenny Clarke, for certain! So that must be one of these Eddy Louis sides, I have that somewhere. Yeah. These were some of the best organ albums on this continent. Have 'em all.

Track 4: Like on the second disc, a multiphonic trombonist. The 1970's are all over this track. We would have lovedto dance to this back then, they try real hard to get the groove goin', but from today's perspective it sounds like they try a little too hard.

Track 5: Recognized this within one bar! Happened to get this CD last week. As the guesses are all made, I might as well tell right away. This is from Luis Gasca's first album, on Atlantic. His bandleader of the time (1969), Mongo Santamaria, is here, as well as his longtime arranger and musical director, Marty Sheller, playing a cowbell, and bandmates Steve Berrios and Julito Collazo (the latter only on studio dates). Joe Henderson is here, and Mark Levine, Gasca recorded some more with both before he dropped off the scene. There is an interview on jazzreview.com telling what happened to Gasca after 1975. At that time, Gasca hit the middle between Latin and Jazz better than most others. I'm curious to read the others' recations to this one ....

Track 6: Hmmm .... this reminds me of the things that Larry Goldings and Peter Bernstein have done, but the horns ..... The tenor player really locks in! This is good! and greazy, of course. Yeah! That's not Bill Stewart on drums, I'd say. Good trumpeter! Who is this? Very much in the 1960's organ combo groove, but a much more recent recording, judging from the sound.

Track 7: Very nice bass drum sound! Reminds of a thing by Joe Lovano I once had. "Three Little Words" in there? Nice! These two got good spirits!

Track 8: No idea again! I can see the idea behind that piece, but find there is too much force used in getting it across. Tenor plays too hard for my taste, but that trumpet is nice.

Track 9: George Coleman! With Eastern Rebellion, "5/4 Thing". I saw that band live several times, but without Coleman. Coleman played this in a local club with a European rhythm section. That's some of the best playing I have heard him do.

Track 10: Thought I knew this, but no, but this soprano player and the whole concept sound terribly familiar. The voicings, in particular ....

Track 11: Sounds like a Blue Note organ record with Grachan Moncur, as flat as the trombone player's intonation is ..... Sounds like it was dubbed from an LP with the center hole slightly off center.

Thanks a lot, Stefan, for a very interesting ride!

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