montg Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 I came across this quote in the May issue of Jazz Times and thought it was kind of bizarre. From Ron Goldstein, CEO of Verve: "I realized three or four years ago that if we stuck with jazz, we would be out of business. I just knew it. It's not that we want to be out of the jazz business. It's just that there is nothing that is coming along that is exciting. There was a blip with Joshua Redman, Nicholas Payton, Christian Mcbride 10 years ago, but it seemed to dry up very quickly" An odd statment, I think. First, nothing against these guys, but is the mid 90s output of Redman et al. the standard by which jazz today should be measured? And it's failing to meet that standard?? What strikes me as odd (even perverse) is that the CEO of Verve, with all of its resources and potential influence, seems so disinterested and out of touch with jazz. "nothing is coming along that is exciting" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 What if he's right? Just ask yourself what percentage of the music you buy is reissued and what percentage is new. Up over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 What if he's right? Just ask yourself what percentage of the music you buy is reissued and what percentage is new. Up over and out. He is not right. There's lots of exciting jazz out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Whether or not he's right or wrong, I don't think that he's a guy who knows enough about what he thinks he's talking about to be talking about it. I've heard a few stories.... Besides, how can I take anybody seriously who has/had access to Monday Michiru's (yeah, her again...) Japanese Polydor output and doesn't jump all the hell over a chance to release it stateside? That man has to be a full-fledged idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 I came across this quote in the May issue of Jazz Times and thought it was kind of bizarre. From Ron Goldstein, CEO of Verve: "I realized three or four years ago that if we stuck with jazz, we would be out of business. I just knew it. It's not that we want to be out of the jazz business. It's just that there is nothing that is coming along that is exciting. There was a blip with Joshua Redman, Nicholas Payton, Christian Mcbride 10 years ago, but it seemed to dry up very quickly" An odd statment, I think. First, nothing against these guys, but is the mid 90s output of Redman et al. the standard by which jazz today should be measured? And it's failing to meet that standard?? What strikes me as odd (even perverse) is that the CEO of Verve, with all of its resources and potential influence, seems so disinterested and out of touch with jazz. "nothing is coming along that is exciting" Has it occured to you that he's making the comparison to Redman, Payton, McBride because those are the Verve artists that had a moment in the sun? None of this is surprising in today's market. Would you feel better if he said that "nothing is coming along that is particularly marketable?" Dave James hits the nail on the head - even though I don't take the blame (which usually works out this way: you're such a jazz fan, you should be buying new stuff instead of old stuff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 (edited) the scary thing is not that there's so much good stuff that he doesn't know about, but that he doesn't KNOW he doesn't know about the good stuff - incredibly stupid for someone in his position - Edited April 21, 2006 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Tell you what, I do think he's right about the type of jazz that he thinks he should be selling - it's not very exciting. But then again, it wasn't very exciting when he was excited about it. It's taken him this long to figure that out? What excites him - music or sales? Does he even know the difference? The guy's an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 What Mr. Goldstein is really saying may boil down to how you define "exciting". If he means aesthetically, that's one thing, but if he means economically, that's something else entirely. Personally, I think there is good jazz being made today, I just rarely buy it. As is the case with most of us, the amount of disposable income we have is finite. That means you have to make choices. I choose to buy old jazz, not new. Up over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 People like Goldstein think only in terms of marketability, and it never occurs to them that they have the power to shape the market. Goldstein's remarks reflect a bottom line mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 People like Goldstein think only in terms of marketability, and it never occurs to them that they have the power to shape the market. Goldstein's remarks reflect a bottom line mentality. The strange thing is, his colleagues at Universal, running other divisions, do think they have the power to shape the market, and they do so. So why can't Goldstein? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Tell you what, I do think he's right about the type of jazz that he thinks he should be selling - it's not very exciting. But then again, it wasn't very exciting when he was excited about it. It's taken him this long to figure that out? What excites him - music or sales? Does he even know the difference? Hey, don't get excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 seem to recall rumour (on another jazz forum) had it ron nudged scofield into that ray tribute album. certainly sold and toured well ... perhaps paying some bills allowing john to work on other (less profitable) projects. balto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 I suppose as a percentage, the amount of "new" jazz I buy is fairly low, but I think I must buy at least one new CD a month (maybe 2 if I include eMusic downloads). Now I don't know if it "counts" if the artists themselves have been around the block more than a few times, and most of the new recordings have been by Andrew Hill, Moncur, Roswell Rudd, Sonny Rollins, Von Freeman, Wayne Shorter, McCoy Tyner and so on. The newest artists I have invested in are Vijay Iyer, Polar Bear/Acoustic Ladyland/FIRE and of course Organissimo. So I don't really see myself as part of the problem of not supporting new artists, though I am sure I could spend more on new artists (if the wife allowed it). I agree it is a shame that a guy in his position is so negative about the prospects of jazz sales. At some point, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 The strange thing is, his colleagues at Universal, running other divisions, do think they have the power to shape the market, and they do so. So why can't Goldstein? Because he's an idiot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted April 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 the scary thing is not that there's so much good stuff that he doesn't know about, but that he doesn't KNOW he doesn't know about the good stuff - incredibly stupid for someone in his position - Right. The guy's entitled to his opinion about jazz. But what really annoys me is that somebody who apparently doesn't care enough to seek out the good stuff is the CEO of Verve. It's like having Dick Cheny in charge of Amnesty International. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 It's like having Dick Cheny in charge of Amnesty International. Not really funny, I guess, but... MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 I came across this quote in the May issue of Jazz Times and thought it was kind of bizarre. From Ron Goldstein, CEO of Verve: "I realized three or four years ago that if we stuck with jazz, we would be out of business. I just knew it. It's not that we want to be out of the jazz business. It's just that there is nothing that is coming along that is exciting. There was a blip with Joshua Redman, Nicholas Payton, Christian Mcbride 10 years ago, but it seemed to dry up very quickly" An odd statment, I think. First, nothing against these guys, but is the mid 90s output of Redman et al. the standard by which jazz today should be measured? And it's failing to meet that standard?? What strikes me as odd (even perverse) is that the CEO of Verve, with all of its resources and potential influence, seems so disinterested and out of touch with jazz. "nothing is coming along that is exciting" Has it occured to you that he's making the comparison to Redman, Payton, McBride because those are the Verve artists that had a moment in the sun? I don't think that Redman was ever a Verve artist, was he? I thought he was always on RCA until he got bumped and moved to Nonesuch (actually owned by RCA). Same deal with Mehldau. Not sure about Payton, though. Was he on Verve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 I don't think that Redman was ever a Verve artist, was he? I thought he was always on RCA until he got bumped and moved to Nonesuch (actually owned by RCA). Same deal with Mehldau. Not sure about Payton, though. Was he on Verve? Redman was on Warner Brothers, not RCA (I know, it's hard to tell these big conglomerates apart). Nonesuch (originally a division of Elektra when Elektra was an independent label) is now part of the Warner / Elektra / Atlantic family. Not that it matters much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 What Verve needs is the sort of exciting and marketable artist that helped revive Columbia's jazz program in the 80s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 All Verve "needs" is an intelligent reissue producer. They should send the singers to others and leave interesting new stuff to others. Oh yeah, they are already doing the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 the scary thing is not that there's so much good stuff that he doesn't know about, but that he doesn't KNOW he doesn't know about the good stuff - incredibly stupid for someone in his position - Right. The guy's entitled to his opinion about jazz. But what really annoys me is that somebody who apparently doesn't care enough to seek out the good stuff is the CEO of Verve. It's like having Dick Cheny in charge of Amnesty International. isnt verve a dinosaur? isnt the music business changing? wont performers be marketing and controlling their own product on the web? i would expect that certain artists might be releasing new concerts or performances even monthly. i would like to think that, if people heard some of the incredible musicians playing today, they would respond favorably. getting jazz into movies and sporting events would seem to be sensible marketing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted April 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 the scary thing is not that there's so much good stuff that he doesn't know about, but that he doesn't KNOW he doesn't know about the good stuff - incredibly stupid for someone in his position - Right. The guy's entitled to his opinion about jazz. But what really annoys me is that somebody who apparently doesn't care enough to seek out the good stuff is the CEO of Verve. It's like having Dick Cheny in charge of Amnesty International. isnt verve a dinosaur? isnt the music business changing? wont performers be marketing and controlling their own product on the web? i would expect that certain artists might be releasing new concerts or performances even monthly. i would like to think that, if people heard some of the incredible musicians playing today, they would respond favorably. getting jazz into movies and sporting events would seem to be sensible marketing. Verve's a dinosaur, but one with lots of money and potential influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Conventional wisdom has it that the dinosaurs which survived did so by evolving into either birds or lizards. Soar or crawl, Mr. Goldman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Conventional wisdom has it that the dinosaurs which survived did so by evolving into either birds or lizards. Soar or crawl, Mr. Goldman. The other logical alternative is not to survive. Maybe he won't. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Who could sell so many records that a major label like Verve should sign them, do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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