clifford_thornton Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Chico. Hamilton. Complete. Impulse. Recordings. I don't know that work too well but feel like if it had the Mosaic treatment, I'd learn it. Or whatever part of it I could learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisp Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Don't bet a penny that a Three Sounds Box Set will come from Mosaic. I'm aware that Michael Cuscuna is prejudiced against them, but... 1) There isn't much Blue Note material that hasn't been done already 2) It would make money, which is something Mosaic seems to need right now 3) Who else is gonna do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Don't bet a penny that a Three Sounds Box Set will come from Mosaic. I'm aware that Michael Cuscuna is prejudiced against them, but... 1) There isn't much Blue Note material that hasn't been done already 2) It would make money, which is something Mosaic seems to need right now 3) Who else is gonna do it? 1) There is plenty of good Blue Note material that hasn't been done, but just not from the 40s-60s. 2) I would personally love a Three Sounds set, but I doubt very much that it would make money. The Three Sounds sold well back in the day, but that sort of fan base, for the most part, no longer exists. 3) Who else is gonna do it? As I understand, the European labels have started releasing box sets of the individual CDs. I already bought mine long ago as expensive japanese imports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Don't bet a penny that a Three Sounds Box Set will come from Mosaic. I'm aware that Michael Cuscuna is prejudiced against them, but... 1) There isn't much Blue Note material that hasn't been done already 2) It would make money, which is something Mosaic seems to need right now 3) Who else is gonna do it? 1) There is plenty of good Blue Note material that hasn't been done, but just not from the 40s-60s. 2) I would personally love a Three Sounds set, but I doubt very much that it would make money. The Three Sounds sold well back in the day, but that sort of fan base, for the most part, no longer exists. 3) Who else is gonna do it? As I understand, the European labels have started releasing box sets of the individual CDs. I already bought mine long ago as expensive japanese imports. The problem with a Three Sounds set is how would you do it? The albums were all pieced together from sessions, and a lot of the material is very light, so each album is very much an entertainment package. So to put things back in session order would probably weaken it, and there's a lot of stuff which might make for an over-sized and possibly not very compelling set. I've got a lot of Three Sounds albums on CD, I'd have no appetite for a box, and to be honest you have to absorb quite a lot of trivia on any given album - that's just what it is. There will be no Select as those are a thing of the past, otherwise you could do an entirely re-edited Best Of type set, but that would not please collectors and might not work anyway. In any case there is a 4CD euro-version which is probably all most people want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Illionois Jacquet Verve/Argo Sonny Stitt on Verve Shorty Rogers on RCA Three Sounds on Blue Note I'd also like a complete Fats Waller. It's all under the Sony BMG banner now and the last masterings are very old. Sadly with all the EU PD editions around I can't see it ever being done properly. The Jacquet has mostly been taken care of by Lonehill, four single discs, for their standards very nicely done. Too much Rogers out on Fresh Sound, I guess ... I'd very much welcome a second volume from JSP, though! Speaking of JSP, I know Mosaic's presentation is a thousand times nicer, but JSP did a great job on Fats Waller, no need (and totally unfeasible) for Mosaic to touch that. Wayne Shorter Blue Note Sessions 1963-69 Bobby Hutcherson Blue Note Sessions 1963-69 No real need for either, is there? All individual albums are or were available forever or nearly. Those would be ones I'd be hard-pressed to decide ... but I'd definitely not need them. The late BNs by Shorter though would have made a nice Select, and they're rather scarce, too (I still don't have "Odyssey of Iska" as any type of hard copy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisp Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I don't buy EU PD discs and it's an eternal frustration that the mediocre, second-generation needledrops of Fresh Sound, JSP and the rest make proper releases unfeasable. I would *love* it if EU copyright laws were repealed. Regarding the saminess of The Three Sounds, perhaps this would be a good candidate for Mosaic's first lossless-download-only release, should they ever go down that route. I'm currently ripping all my Mosaics to FLAC and I'm finding that the more repetitive sets (and Mosaic has done a few) are much more palatable as part of a playlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Gary McFarland's Verve and Impulse output might benefit from a Mosaic-enabled reevaluation. The boundaries of such a set could get squishy, given the volume of arranging work he did for others, but even if the set were to concentrate only on the dates issued under McFarland's own name... there's some "scope" for you right there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I would *love* it if EU copyright laws were repealed. You want NO EU copyright law? MGLonehill did hardly any Verve Jacquet. But I don't think there'd be enough there for a Mosaic big box. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisp Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 No, I want more restrictions on what enters the public domain and when. Myriad crapola needledrops benefits nobody. There is enough UMG-owned Jacquet for four or five discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I don't buy EU PD discs and it's an eternal frustration that the mediocre, second-generation needledrops of Fresh Sound, JSP and the rest make proper releases unfeasable. I would *love* it if EU copyright laws were repealed. I hear you, but I would definitely not throw the JSP Waller in with Lonehill et.al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 No, I want more restrictions on what enters the public domain and when. Myriad crapola needledrops benefits nobody. There is enough UMG-owned Jacquet for four or five discs. Yes, but the Argo/Cadet material has already been issued by Lonehill. I'm very happy with that set. As also with the Johnny Hodges/Wild Bill Davis material from Verve & RCA Victor. But I'm still waiting for the complete Freddie McCoy on Prestige/Cobblestone and the complete live Les McCann on PJ and the complete studio Les McCann on PJ. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisp Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I was less than happy with the JSP releases I bought -- both in terms of sound quality and annotation -- and have since avoided that label, especially since that debacle with the Berigan Mosaic. It's frustrating that the law is blocking quality releases, but in the face of the law, I guess we must accept what we can get. We probably need a website listing good and bad PD releases from an audiophile perspective. I'll probably be driven to Lonehill and Real Gone eventually. The only consistently good PD releases I've heard come from Vocalion, which is run by a sound engineer who in any case mostly handles licensed in-copyright material, so he has standards to maintain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Blaming the law is one option, blaming the majors another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Gary McFarland's Verve and Impulse output might benefit from a Mosaic-enabled reevaluation. The boundaries of such a set could get squishy, given the volume of arranging work he did for others, but even if the set were to concentrate only on the dates issued under McFarland's own name... there's some "scope" for you right there... I think McFarland is very underrated, but he did a real lot of sessions as aleader, and even more as an arranger for others - that would be a huge set. Limiting it to his albums as a leader would be necessary, but I'm afraid much of it appears too lightweight for mosaic's standards, if only on the surface. McFarland was very sophisticated. ........ and the complete live Les McCann on PJ and the complete studio Les McCann on PJ. MG Fresh Sound finally started covering McCann's Pacific Jazz output. Similar to The Three Sounds on Blue Note, his music might not be up to Cuscuna's standards. The Fresh Sound discs add bonus material, I can't yet tell about their sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Blaming the law is one option, blaming the majors another. Hard to fault the majors when, to take one example, you can get 8 Three Sounds albums for $11. There's no way a legit company could compete with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 ........ and the complete live Les McCann on PJ and the complete studio Les McCann on PJ. MG Fresh Sound finally started covering McCann's Pacific Jazz output. Similar to The Three Sounds on Blue Note, his music might not be up to Cuscuna's standards. The Fresh Sound discs add bonus material, I can't yet tell about their sound. I'm going to get round to the Fresh Sound releases soon. The first batch didn't include bonus material; just some material from early sessions that was issued on LP later. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Blaming the law is one option, blaming the majors another. Hard to fault the majors when, to take one example, you can get 8 Three Sounds albums for $11. There's no way a legit company could compete with that. Well yes, maybe - but they had plenty of time ... it's not that I endorse the cheapo labels at all - far from, actually, but it's all following capitalist logic, I'm afraid. Blaming the law is one option, blaming the majors another. Hard to fault the majors when, to take one example, you can get 8 Three Sounds albums for $11. There's no way a legit company could compete with that. Well yes, maybe - but they had plenty of time ... it's not that I endorse the cheapo labels at all - far from, actually, but it's all following capitalist logic, I'm afraid. Blaming the law is one option, blaming the majors another. Hard to fault the majors when, to take one example, you can get 8 Three Sounds albums for $11. There's no way a legit company could compete with that. Well yes, maybe - but they had plenty of time ... it's not that I endorse the cheapo labels at all - far from, actually, but it's all following capitalist logic, I'm afraid. Blaming the law is one option, blaming the majors another. Hard to fault the majors when, to take one example, you can get 8 Three Sounds albums for $11. There's no way a legit company could compete with that. Well yes, maybe - but they had plenty of time ... it's not that I endorse the cheapo labels at all - far from, actually, but it's all following capitalist logic, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I heard you the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 It was only when I got to the end that I realised I had read the same thing four times. (I had my Heidegger reading group this afternoon so that would explain why I am inoculated to reading the same argument over and over...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alankin Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 And once more repeat again for the second time . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisp Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 it's all following capitalist logic, I'm afraid. That's why I wish EU copyright law wasn't the way it was. If the rights were still in the exclusive hands of the majors there would be more of an incentive for them to release or license them. As it is pre-1963 sessions can't be legitimately released without the danger of being immediately and legally booted by dozens of fly-by-night companies -- and they are ALL ropey outfits IMO, no exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Well sorry for that, blame my smartphone And some pints of Guinness, too ... And now, one more once, pop goes the weasel, read yo' Derrida, and I'm off, heading for me kingdom, which is - a bed. Edited April 25, 2013 by king ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Is there any Gil Evans material that has not otherwise been collected / would especially benefit from Mosaic treatment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Sure wish they'd do the Hodges 60s stuff from Verve. Most of that is still out of print, I think, and there's some very nice music there. gregmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 True that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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