BFT 37 disc 1 - discussion

[mikeweil]

1. Ah, vinyl (well shellac, I guess ). The segue of old vocal into modern arrangement and back again works suprisingly well. Something in the sound reminded me of Piere Dorge's New Jungle Orchestra, also was thinking perhaps Carla Bley...

Not Dörge, and I hear that Bley touch!

3. Prominent bass clarinet with vibes in small group. A very European sound but with hints of Dolphy influence. Michel Portal?

No - that bass clarinettist is a Swissman of Italian descent. (Where's ubu?)

8. Solo bluesy guitar intro. Mike Stern?

No - all except the drummer are Germans, and it's two guitar players!

11. Didgeridoo introl - Rolf Harris? Leads into a Miles-ish trumpet feature. Paulo Fresu?

All three players are French, and it's some exotic jew's harp.

12. Solo guitar (Bach) then into 'Nuages' in duet with an alto player. The sound of the altoist is very much in the style of Phil Woods.

Both are Italian, and the saxist's main axe is piano.

14. A very nice orchestral arrangement with a vibes lead that is very much in the style of Melba Liston. The vibist definitely isn't Bags or Bobby Hutcherson. I'd like to know who this one is.

15. That wouldn't be Fats Sadi with Kenny Clarke and Francy Boland would it? Love this track - the sound just reeks of Saba. Me wants !

You'll laugh some when you read the answers on both tracks !!!

Thanks a lot for your comments!

I will try to have the answers posted before July 1 ..........

Edited June 26, 2006 by mikeweil

[Nate Dorward]

3. Prominent bass clarinet with vibes in small group. A very European sound but with hints of Dolphy influence. Michel Portal?

No - that bass clarinettist is a Swissman of Italian descent. (Where's ubu?)

Maurice Magnoni.

[mikeweil]

3. Prominent bass clarinet with vibes in small group. A very European sound but with hints of Dolphy influence. Michel Portal?

No - that bass clarinettist is a Swissman of Italian descent. (Where's ubu?)

Maurice Magnoni.

Sorry, no ...

[Nate Dorward]

Rats, I thought there couldn't be more than one possibility .....

[king ubu]

Claudio Puntin!

[mikeweil]

Claudio Puntin!

Bingo!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Well, I’ve listened to the main BFT each weekend, as I do for new CDs, for the last 3 weeks and I don’t think I’m going to feel very different about the music if I listen to it for a few weeks more. So it’s time.

I must say, it’s been very pleasant listening to it, as I frequently have, in Ynysangharad Park. It’s a good place to just sit and listen on headphones. Even today, when two young girls in short skirts sat opposite me across a flower bed, I was still able to concentrate on the music; that says quite a lot for the music

1 Well, I liked the band. I loved the loping riff. It reminded me of some of the things Jacques Denjean used to do in the early ‘60s. But this isn’t Denjean; this is some fool who thinks it’s clever to incorporate an old 78 of “All the things you are”. Some people have more style than they know what to do with. Nuff sed.

2 Trombone, cello and bass. No idea who it is. Very nice. Although I like it, I wouldn’t want a whole album of it; it seems to lack telling power. Just an attractive idea.

3 Marimba, bass clarinet, percussion. A bit spiky. This is good fun, too, but I don’t get a feeling of the musicians having a great story to tell behind it all.

4 Love the groove from the drummer. Bass player really contributing, too. Vibes, trumpet and trombone aren’t bad, but the drummer is the star. I was reminded of Idris Muhammad’s style a bit, but it ain’t him (though I suppose it COULD be, if it’s one of those Swiss or Austrian bands he sometimes does things with). The orchestrations reminded me a bit of the Clarke/Boland band, though I haven’t heard much of them since 1966. If it IS them, I suppose the drummer could be Kenny Clare.

5 More from the funky drummer! With bass and elec piano, then organ. Lovely bass riff before the organ comes in. Then a good, urgent piano solo, with the drummer really rocking the joint behind him. And a nice bass solo. I just gotta get this – well, if this is representative of the whole album – dying to find out who and what it is. Second time I heard this, I thought of Ray Bryant, though I haven’t heard much of his stuff after he stopped making commercial albums. Then it was Ahmad Jamal who popped into my mind, whom I’ve only been listening a short while, so I really don’t know. In both cases it’s the extreme grooviness of the left hand that led me to think of those pianists.

6 Another funky drum intro. Something familiar about the keyboards until dissonance creeps in. Then we go back to drums, piano & marimbas, to shift into a straight 4/4. Nice slow bluesy riff at the end. This is Randy Weston type stuff, I think. If so, perhaps it’s balas, not marimbas. On final listen I decided it was balas AND marimbas. Definitely FEELS like Randy Weston; another pianist I don’t have a lot of.

7 Alto sax, with mucho percussion. Heavy bass riff. No piano or guitar. Somewhat spiky alto. I wondered if there were two drummers, then came to the conclusion that the different elements of the drum kit were on separate mikes. This gives a feeling of disorientation – especially on headphones, it may not be so bad listening in an open room. I didn’t like it much. At 4:36, I thought it was way too long.

8 Two guitarists, bass. Very African feel to this. When the drums enter, the African feeling goes, but comes back for the ensemble passages. Both guitarists playing some stinging blues, very mellow – but not serene enough for Mandinke guitarists. First two listens, I think I’ve heard the drummer before, then conclude that he just sounds a bit like Joe Dukes on “Soulful drums”. Now for me, this could have gone on for 15:50. Very, very nice indeed!

9 This reminded me of track 3. They’re both good fun, both not really grabbing you by the guts. Was it a bassoon, bass clarinet, or some kind of synth? Spiky soprano sax I didn’t like too much. Second time around, I was reminded of George Braith in his more out moments. Today I thought it might be Joel Zorn or John Dorn.

10 Bass clarinet, drums, piano, synth. Band comes in like movie music. Another spiky sax! Is this more Zorn? The pianist is spiky, too, but a bit funkier than the alto saxophonist. Band comes back in for a bit more movie music. Trumpeter OK; is it Benny Bailey? I think the tone is a bit thin for him. This is another track that seems to go on forever.

11 Digeridoo!? Trumpet & drums with what sounds like a synth bass. Good groove here. Very nice muted trumpet, reminds me of Blue Mitchell, but can’t be. When the beat narrows down to straight ahead, it all swings very nicely. I really like this one. I don’t see the point of the digeridoo intro, but I suppose it does grab the attention.

12 Bach intro on guitar, then into a little solo. In comes the alto sax. Familiar tune with a Django feel, so I guess it’s “Nuages”, about the only one of his tunes I’ve heard. The sax player reminds me an awful lot of Lou Donaldson, in the purity of his melody and in his sound. There’s a little growl in the middle of the solo which his very like Lou. The trouble is, I think I’ve got very nearly everything Lou ever recorded except a few cuts that appeared on BN 10” LPs that weren’t reissued on 12”, and the session with Clifford Brown. And he hasn’t recorded “Nuages”. So, it CAN’T be Lou. But it DOES sound like him. Anyway, if this is Lou, there’s an album I don’t know about that I’ve got to get. And if it ain’t Lou, there’s someone else’s work I have to look into.

13 Now, here’s another familiar tune, which I can’t place. It’s clearly a bop tune. If I know it, then it must be on an album I don’t play very much (and can’t be asked to review all those Joe Pass and Clare Fischer things).Cello, bass, piano & drums. Nice bowed cello solo. Good piano solo. Both are telling a story for real. I know the pianist, too, but even after three goes, can’t place him. Eventually, the name Gene Harris turned up in my mind – another one I don’t have too much of. If it’s him, I suppose it could be Ray Brown on cello. Nice stuff.

14 Big band. Bits from vibes, trombone, piano, then vibes again at greater length (or so it seems). Vibes are OK but don’t stir me. Don’t like the orchestrations very much. Really can’t get interested enough to even think about who the musicians are.

15 A minute of vibes in 6/8. Are there two vibists, one in each ear, or are the low notes on just one instrument on a different mike? I think the latter, but there’s not enough of this to tell. Then there’s silence, then a violin, very faint. WTF?

Looking back at this, there are five cuts here I really liked. MUCH better than I expected. (Or much worse, since it all means additional expenditure as my lists extend.) Well done Mike!

Phew! Now I can read 4 pages of what everyone else thought!

MG

PS Ynys means "island" in Welsh. Angharad is a woman's name. So Ynysangharad Park means Angharad's Island Park

PPS Damn! Quotes and apostrophes don't come out properly from Word. Can't be asked to edit the whole thing; sorry.

Edited June 24, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[Д.Д.]

1. I love all these scratchy vinyl sounds. Punchy bass. I first thought this was theremin, not voice Sounds groovy. Well written. Guitar solo – nice and sweet, classic Green sound… but nothing really special. I like these little ostinato phrases of saxophones behind the solo. There is even tuba! Piano solo is way too generic - I tend to focus more on what this funny phrasing of saxophones and tuba behind it. Bass is huge! Really good writing – I like that they seem to bit out of sync, but still it all falls into place perfectly. Good collective horn improvisation piece (reminded me of writing on Kind Crimson’s “Lizard”) – would have liked them freaking out more). I like the sample idea, but it’s already a bit too long. Good stuff overall, I just missed strong improvisations here.

2. Two basses (or one is cello?) with trombone. Yeah, cello. Cute quirky theme – but repeated a bit too much. Are they going to improvise or what?. Hoopla, was this a trombone breathing sound at 3:40 – it’s such a clean performance overall, nice to have a bit of human imperfections creeping in. Not too happy with the track actually – the emphasis is on the writing (as opposed to improvisation), and it is not too interesting here. Glenn Ferris, I guess, on one of his Enja HW albums. He can do much better than this when he stretches (saw him live recently, and he is very impressive).

3. Cute percussion. Nice bass clarinet sound. Well written, excellently performed, but for me it very much follows the pattern of first two tracks – well-written quirky pretty themes, interesting arrangements with counterpoints, and very superficial improvisations. All very clean. But really well played. Could be Sclavis on bass clarinet.

4. Well played clever music. Not something I would be interested in listening to normally. Vibes solo is noodling. Bassist sounds like the one from track 1 – very (too?) assertive. Trumpet (cornet?) I like more – bassist is pulling too much on himself here. Trombone solo is good. All in-the-pocket.

5. No-no-no. Just nothing I could hold on to here. So bland. 2 minutes only and I am ready for it to end. Piano solo is not too bad, though.

6. Oh, thumb piano… nice. I think the drums here is a bad idea – the music would have been much more liquid and light without this constant bass drum pulse that nails it to the ground every second. Also sounds like something Enjas would release. Oh, there’s balafon here as well. The idea is nice, but it just does not work overall – drums I mentioned already, but also piano (the pianist is most likely German – all these annoying schooled romantic piano clichés…) just overdoes it. I still have to hear a good African folk / Jazz fusion, though, so these guys are not the only ones who failed. This is still better than what Roswell Rudd did on his “Malicool” stuff. Probably this is Trio Ivoire – I have their disc somewhere, too lazy to check now.

7. Also African-inspired. I like it. Beautiful alto sound – light and sweet, not too imposing, without overdone vibrato. Quite similar to Funny Rat’s perennial favorite Gianni Gebbia in sound. I like what drums/bass are doing – some very intricate drums playing; bass is very percussive and a good counterpart to drums. Alto is not doing anything outstanding (could have stretched a bit more, really), but it’s OK – still sounds nice. Excellent drums solo. This low-tuned drum sound in the right channel surely is good. Hamid Drake’s influence, but I don’t think this is him. Good stuff.

8. Some blues – good transition. Funny what drummer is doing – I like it, even if it does not fit too well into the whole blues framework. I like the guitarist in the right channel more – he’s less predictable. Sweet.

9. Nice bass clarinet into. This other low instrument - I cannot even tell what it is. Sounds a very dated – late 80s/early 90s – you can’t imagine music like this recorded these days. This leading saxophone (soprano or alto? I can’t tell) surely sounds ugly. Again, cleverly conceived and executed, but just no strong improvisations…

10. Sounds like something from the CMP label. This synth. sound - argghh. Well, here is alto sound that I would have problems listening to for too long (even if the ideas are good – and I like the ideas here). Drummer sounds like Chad Wakerman. Too stiff for my tastes. Overall, this is all so stiff and forced… I don’t like it. Oh, it’s not the end, there is a trumpet solo here. Solo is OK, sounds like Kenny Wheeler at his more exuberant (meaning, this is not him), overdoing all these high notes. Man, this is long (and tiring) track. This repetitive bass riff is very annoying. Yeah, all we needed here is more of these cheapo synth sounds. I think this is not good at all.

11. Nice, very Milesian trumpet. I bit of diversity in the rhythm section’s playing wouldn’t have hurt.

12. The bass guitar player really overdoes it. I like the alto a lot – the most interesting improvisation on the disc so far (even if the technique is not perfect – it sounds like there are some intonation problems in the beginning and end of the solo). Bass guitarists produces about three times more notes than would have been adequate. I’m curious about the altoist.

13. No. I mean it’s nice to have cello as a solo instrument, but without any original ideas it does not get beyond a gimmick factor. We heard a lot of piano solos like this. Little polite drums breaks… Just no challenge whatsoever. I don’t see the point.

14. I like the vibes solo. The sound is without new-agey psychedelic cheesyness, but very focused. The band arrangement is rather clumsy, and the theme is a bit too corny, IMO. French horn – beautiful, beautiful sound.

15. Very sweet. Strangely recorded – is it two sets of vibes, each separately miked? I’d like it longer. Hey, what’s with these sounds at the end?

Thanks Mike.

[mikeweil]

2. Two basses (or one is cello?) with trombone. Yeah, cello. Cute quirky theme – but repeated a bit too much. Are they going to improvise or what?. Hoopla, was this a trombone breathing sound at 3:40 – it’s such a clean performance overall, nice to have a bit of human imperfections creeping in. Not too happy with the track actually – the emphasis is on the writing (as opposed to improvisation), and it is not too interesting here. Glenn Ferris, I guess, on one of his Enja HW albums. He can do much better than this when he stretches (saw him live recently, and he is very impressive).

Good!

3. Cute percussion. Nice bass clarinet sound. Well written, excellently performed, but for me it very much follows the pattern of first two tracks – well-written quirky pretty themes, interesting arrangements with counterpoints, and very superficial improvisations. All very clean. But really well played. Could be Sclavis on bass clarinet.

The bass clarintettist has been identified in the meantime - you were not the only one to guess Sclavis.

4. Well played clever music. Not something I would be interested in listening to normally. Vibes solo is noodling. Bassist sounds like the one from track 1 – very (too?) assertive. Trumpet (cornet?) I like more – bassist is pulling too much on himself here. Trombone solo is good. All in-the-pocket.

Not the same bassist.

6. Oh, thumb piano… nice. I think the drums here is a bad idea – the music would have been much more liquid and light without this constant bass drum pulse that nails it to the ground every second. Also sounds like something Enjas would release. Oh, there’s balafon here as well. The idea is nice, but it just does not work overall – drums I mentioned already, but also piano (the pianist is most likely German – all these annoying schooled romantic piano clichés…) just overdoes it. I still have to hear a good African folk / Jazz fusion, though, so these guys are not the only ones who failed. This is still better than what Roswell Rudd did on his “Malicool” stuff. Probably this is Trio Ivoire – I have their disc somewhere, too lazy to check now.

It is!

7. Also African-inspired. I like it. Beautiful alto sound – light and sweet, not too imposing, without overdone vibrato. Quite similar to Funny Rat’s perennial favorite Gianni Gebbia in sound. I like what drums/bass are doing – some very intricate drums playing; bass is very percussive and a good counterpart to drums. Alto is not doing anything outstanding (could have stretched a bit more, really), but it’s OK – still sounds nice. Excellent drums solo. This low-tuned drum sound in the right channel surely is good. Hamid Drake’s influence, but I don’t think this is him. Good stuff.

Maybe this drummer inspired Drake? He was there before him.

10. Sounds like something from the CMP label. This synth. sound - argghh. Well, here is alto sound that I would have problems listening to for too long (even if the ideas are good – and I like the ideas here). Drummer sounds like Chad Wakerman. Too stiff for my tastes. Overall, this is all so stiff and forced… I don’t like it. Oh, it’s not the end, there is a trumpet solo here. Solo is OK, sounds like Kenny Wheeler at his more exuberant (meaning, this is not him), overdoing all these high notes. Man, this is long (and tiring) track. This repetitive bass riff is very annoying. Yeah, all we needed here is more of these cheapo synth sounds. I think this is not good at all.

Funny that several of you thought that it was too clearly Wheeler to be him ......

12. The bass guitar player really overdoes it. ........ Bass guitarists produces about three times more notes than would have been adequate. ......

15. Very sweet. Strangely recorded – is it two sets of vibes, each separately miked? I’d like it longer. Hey, what’s with these sounds at the end?

Some late 1960's extremely polarized stereo, it seems ....

Thanks for your very interesting comments - excellent read for me!

Edited June 26, 2006 by mikeweil

[rockefeller center]

Hello Michael! Thanks for sending me the discs. I just returned from vacation and gave disc #1 a listen while trashing dehydrate plants.

#5: The tune is Jaco Pastorius's 'Liberty City' but I don't know whose interpretation it is. Sounds O.K. but too disciplined for me.

#10: Cover of a 'Sextant' tune (Hancock's 'Sextant')? Probably not but the bass clarinet line sounds Maupinish.

#12: A bass guitar player who appreciates some fret noise. Early 80ies Gerald Veasley and Tacuma could probably sound similar. But this guy throws in harmonics also and I've never heard Veasley or Tacuma play harmonics. Probably a younger player with many influences; no matter who he or she is, I don't like the bass playing on that tune (sounds familiar but my tune-name memory is lost forever -> except for Pastorius tunes/see above).

More later this week, back to the plants...

Dankeschön!

[rockefeller center]

Re #4 -> you think you can fool me?! Hehe, I knew you would include a track from this disc! Hello Dieter!

[mikeweil]

Re #4 -> you think you can fool me?! Hehe, I knew you would include a track from this disc!

Well .... I would have been disappointed, if I had fooled you ....

[mikeweil]

#12: A bass guitar player who appreciates some fret noise. Early 80ies Gerald Veasley and Tacuma could probably sound similar. But this guy throws in harmonics also and I've never heard Veasley or Tacuma play harmonics. Probably a younger player with many influences; no matter who he or she is, I don't like the bass playing on that tune ....

That bass player also appears on track #5 and also on my previous BFT # 18.

Edited June 26, 2006 by mikeweil

[couw]

Mike, I have played your disks a few times and hear some things I like and some things I don't like as much. As I warned you beforehand, I will not find the time to type up some remarks, for which I apologise. Overall, I like the music you selected, I didn't recognise anything or anyone with 100% certainty so I will look out for the answers, listen again, and learn some. Thanks much.

Edited June 27, 2006 by couw

[mikeweil]

No problem .......