The graying of the record store

[Dmitry]

... the jazz sections at all these stores sucks, except downtown...

Funny, I always thought otherwise...

[fasstrack]

i have a different opnion than most on this issue.

while i think downloading my be robbing the industry of new customers, i think there are multiple issues in the decline of sales.

first off, i do'nt think that there is an industry on the planet that treats its best customer worse than the record industry (not to mention how they treat many of the "producers" of their product).

i mean - how many times do i have to buy the elvis costello catalog (short answer - 0).

secondly, i think there is much more competition for the entertainment dollar today than when we were young.

when i was in high school there were 2 choices - go to a movie or buy an lp.

today the "record" stores that i see doing well do as much business in dvd's as they do in cd's.

games are a big purchase for young people - and they ain't cheap.

i think the computer games might be the number 1 reason that cd sales are down.

the record industry should focus on their "graying" clientele.

that might work best for all of us in the long run.

I think this choice overkill thing is all very true and actually has been one of the maddening aspects of capitalism in the US of A for many years now. I remember reading an article as far back as the 60s in Life or another mag of the day about how people's eyes were glazed over by toothpaste choices. Not to mention they were unrelentingly preyed upon by ad campaigns of the individual makers. The middle to lower classes always went with the lower cost option while the rich maybe were happy to have choices. This is still true as when I teach my affluent students and ask them what tune they want to learn in a flash they're hitting iTunes at 99c a pop. I'm sure they download plenty for free too, though. The lower income kids don't have those options to buy and you know they're working other angles.

I feel as badly for brick-and-mortar store owners as I do for myself and my colleagues re the future of live music. But if we sit on our asses we will perish. We have to educate and adapt. Maybe those of us selling CDs on CD baby can sell individual tracks like the pop guys do. I'm sure the smarter ones are doing it already. But we should support the store owner too, especially the little guy. I don't buy many CDs anymore, mostly because of burning from the library and especially, sad to say, there's hardly any new product in jazz that's that appealing to me. Older players mostly. But I will try to do something about that, take a chance once in a while.

Finally, it's CDs, not CD's---isn't it? Maybe i'm wrong. I think not, though. I admit to being obsessive but inappropriate apostrophes kind of annoy the crap out of me. Like 'Falafel's $4.00'

Grrr

Edited August 1, 2006 by fasstrack

[Chuck Nessa]

I admit to being obsessive but inappropriate apostrophes kind of annoy the crap out of me. Like 'Falafel's $4.00'

Grrr

If you do make the purchase, it might indeed be the "Falafel's $4.00".

[Aggie87]

I don't buy many CDs anymore, mostly because of burning from the library and especially, sad to say, there's hardly any new product in jazz that's that appealing to me.

Borrowing and burning illegal copies of in-print music surely isn't helping anyone - the artists, the labels, or the mom and pop stores...

[fasstrack]

I don't buy many CDs anymore, mostly because of burning from the library and especially, sad to say, there's hardly any new product in jazz that's that appealing to me.

Borrowing and burning illegal copies of in-print music surely isn't helping anyone - the artists, the labels, or the mom and pop stores...

I know. It's wrong as hell. I do buy once in a while, usually to support my friends. I bought Warren Vache's project with strings (Don't Look Back, Arbor) because it's great music, Warren is Warren, and two of my friends, Bill Finegan and James Chirillo wrote most of it.

But I bought it on the web. Why? Amazon had it for 6 friggin' dollars and change. I'm poorer than my students, you see. But I also bought two books from a local bookseller because the woman is a mensch and has live readings by local authors and makes nothing on it. I guess I do what i can when I can. If I had the means I'd spend much of my money supporting the arts and those disseminating them.

Edited August 1, 2006 by fasstrack

[etherbored]

i wandered into norman's once and saw a stack of singers unlimited box sets for $25.00 a pop (that retailed for around $80.00 to $90.00). they had that 'just-fell-off-the-truck' (as assisted by one of the afl-cio's finest) vibe all over them.

-e-

[fasstrack]

i wandered into norman's once and saw a stack of singers unlimited box sets for $25.00 a pop (that retailed for around $80.00 to $90.00). they had that 'just-fell-off-the-truck' (as assisted by one of the afl-cio's finest) vibe all over them.

-e-

And to think if Jimmy Hoffa would've himself 'sung' the Meadowlands would be a hell of a different place today...

[fasstrack]

I think I screwed that joke up. Nixon pardoned Hoffa saying 'his own kind will get him anyway', right? Or maybe he did sing after all and that's why he's holding up the pavement in such upstanding fashion today.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

i wandered into norman's once and saw a stack of singers unlimited box sets for $25.00 a pop (that retailed for around $80.00 to $90.00). they had that 'just-fell-off-the-truck' (as assisted by one of the afl-cio's finest) vibe all over them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have not set foot in Norman's since the day I went in there a few weeks after Mosaic got robbed (an inside job) and Norman's shelves were full of saw-cut Mosaic CDs with no boxes. I talked to the manager on duty (Norman?) and asked him where he got them, telling him that Mosaic had just been robbed and that these CDs were "hot". He basically told me it was none of my business. It was not said nicely. I believe "fuck off" was in there somewhere. He absolutely knew they were hot.

Well, it might have been none of my business but now, he's getting "none of my business". I've been spreading the word about that place ever since.

I would be very pleased to find out that Norman's went belly up.

BTW, in case anyone is wondering, Mosaic never saw-cuts promos and they never remainder left over stock.

[andybleaden]

Except for the 25 Complete Commodore Vol 1-3 sets I still have for sale on EBAY......!!!!

Joking aside

I agree that that attitude.

Did the industry no favours and if they were selling hot material then they deserve to pay the price as we would.

A case in point for how things DO change is with the recent issues of the George Braith material via CD baby which I saw via here and snapped all 4 in a flash ......they would have taken years to appear over here and never in big shops

Things change I guess and if George can market like this think how other could have in the past....think of it as an avenue for unreleased Big John Patton....sold by him and now he is dead, his family

[fasstrack]

A case in point for how things DO change is with the recent issues of the George Braith material via CD baby which I saw via here and snapped all 4 in a flash ......they would have taken years to appear over here and never in big shops

Things change I guess and if George can market like this think how other could have in the past...

Good for him. Take it to the people! George is a trooper. I respect the shit out of him for sticking to his guns. He believes in his playing even when others don't. I've known him for years, not well but we hit more than once over 20+ years. George is a rebel and original player based in real musical things and has the spirit of jazz all through him.

[Hot Ptah]

There is another aspect to this subject. In many cities smaller than say, New York, there are just not that many places left any more which are independently owned and unique--the small, interesting shop. To me, there is something lost when a one of the dwindling number of small, interesting, locally owned shops is lost, and the national chain stores are closer to being all that is left. So when three of the five used music stores in a city close in a short time, there is a quality of life issue to those who just like to be in such places from time to time. Not all of such people are "High Fidelity" Jack Black-loser wannabes.

Edited August 1, 2006 by Hot Ptah

[Ken Dryden]

It's sad that nothing but poorly stocked, high-priced chain music stores are all that is available in a lot of markets. Trying to merchandise jazz via home office bozo buyers means that there'll be little of interest for most jazz fans, reinforcing the attitude that "jazz doesn't sell."

Eventually the download kings will not be happy when their ipods, hard drives and burned CDRs start malfunctioning, not to mention when they discover how lousy the audio is in comparison to a manufactured CD.

[fasstrack]

It's sad that nothing but poorly stocked, high-priced chain music stores are all that is available in a lot of markets. Trying to merchandise jazz via home office bozo buyers means that there'll be little of interest for most jazz fans, reinforcing the attitude that "jazz doesn't sell."

Eventually the download kings will not be happy when their ipods, hard drives and burned CDRs start malfunctioning, not to mention when they discover how lousy the audio is in comparison to a manufactured CD.

Thank you. I've been having this argument with 20-somethings on another site. They contend that the bit-rate is adjustable. I think they've, sheeplike, been sold a bill of goods and Mp3s and especially MDs sound like shit. But then I'm an old fart who still listens to LPs.

Hey! I just heard! Lucky Lindy made it!!

[Tom in RI]

Ken (and Fasstrack), I wish I could agree. With me, you are definitely preaching to the choir. However, I don't see any inclination from my kids or their friends that Hi Fi is a desirable thing to them. The young people I know aspire to getting a good computer. When I was a lad (late 60's, early 70's) I and most of my friends looked forward to getting a good stereo. Maybe mosty of us never made it but everybody had at least a few lps (and casettes and 8 tracks). And we got togther after school and listened to music. Now, all the kids want to play video games. I never hear my kids listening to the radio and they don't hit me up for money for cd's (for everything else though). Somehow it seems the music my son likes is generally in connection with his interest in Anime, people post videos online with music that they make as little Anime tributes. I let my son use my stereo when he has friends over but he rarely does, he just keeps his laptop nearby in case he wants to play something for them. Instead of asking for a cd player, he wants an external hard drive. Go figure.

[Hot Ptah]

Times have changed. I came across a stack of National Lampoon magazines from 1972-78 recently. I was struck by the fact that most of the print ads in them were for tobacco or stereo speakers. Most of the speaker ads touted the fact that the speaker in question was bigger and louder than any other speaker.

Young people today don't care about that. If it's bigger than an Ipod, forget it.

[fasstrack]

. I came across a stack of National Lampoon magazines from 1972-78 recently. I

"If you don't buy this magazine we'll kill this dog"

"Jimmy the Weasel's Guide to Murder, Mayhem and picking up Girls"

(Sample dialog:) "We got this guy drunk on his ass. We take him out, get him drinks, introduce him to a couple of celebrities, maybe even Frank. The guy has us in his living room. Wants us to meet his daughter. He's fucking crying. 'I love you guys'. We fucking throw the rope around his neck. One, two, three, it goes---a cakewalk".

What, you thought I was gonna be serious in this heat?

[John L]

A few comments here:

The article correctly identifies the demise of record stores, not a fall in the popularity of music or the decline of the music industry (although that is a serious question as well). Record stores used to be the best and most convenient source for obtaining music. Now there are so many other possibilities. Downloading is only one of them. Amazon.com and other on-line stores generally offer lower prices and better selections than do record stores. I wonder if those companies are showing a decline in purchased CDs?

Personally, I really lament the decline of record stores. I just love the activity of brousing through bins of records. But maybe that is somewhat irrational, simply rooted in all of the enjoyment I had in past years uncovering gems in record stores. Now a 5-minute on-line search will usually turn up more than a week-long record store hunt used to.

I visited one of the best CD stores in the US a few days ago for the first time in a year: Amoeba Records in Hollywood. It was rather depressing to see that the jazz selection shrunk by about 40% in one year. In particular, it appears that Ameoba is no longer ordering rare imports from Japan and other places. The end of record stores really does seem to be near.

For us "serious" music fans, it gets to be a vicious circle. When record stores begin cutting back by only ordering from major labels, that drives us, their potential best customers, away to Internet.

Edited August 3, 2006 by John L

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

did you say unrelased big john patton?

[fent99]

Most Brick and Mortar shops are pretty poor and really expensive but I'm a bit of a bottom feeder and love a secondhand bargain. Good riddance to most and their overinflated prices.

I've been thoroughly enjoying recycling on ebay, putting those things that looked interesting into the hands of others. I'm sure there are plenty of cds in circulation already, just not in the right hands. I could get rid of a few hundred to someone who'd want them and never miss one...

One change I've noticed in the 20 or so years I've been trawling record stores. There are more women in them than when I was young.

I'm not just talking about the pop sections either. I see young woment searching through used vinyl racks much more than I remember (and I think I'd remember?)

Never mind the greying (as I am myself) Are there more women into music?