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Grant Green: "Iron City"


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Just got this one recently, on some dodgy Label, I like it, but would like to know if anyone out there has definitive information on it, i.e. when and where was it recorded and, the real question, is it Patton or Young?

There is another thread on this topic, and the answer (indirectly from Big John Patton) is that it is Larry Young.

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Mike Fitzgerald also had some problems with the intro to 'Work Song'. He thought a bar or two were missing, but I don't think so.

It's definitely screwed up the way he does it, but I counted and the meter seems right. He just plays the head 'funny' the first time around. Sort of like he does with 'Oleo'.

I could be wrong, but I think it's complete.

Dig the way Patton/Young gets into the 'Love Supreme' vamp on 'Old Man Moses'.

Bertrand.

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I don't know if I had said this before on this topic. But I also asked Ben Dixon, the only remaining survivor of the session who played organ just to get his recollection. "Larry Young!....Patton couldn't play like that!" At the time, I kind of took his statement as a slight slam on Big John, but....in retrospect I don't think he meant it like that.

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Yeah, I knew that - they were loose with the title as well as the personnel listing.

It was in a conversation with Dixon that I first got the inkling that Larry was the organist. He said something like: 'Someone needs to talk to [big] John - I think it sounds like Larry Young'. Note that he did not say: 'I remember this date very well - it was Larry Young, not John Patton'.

Bill Heid remembered that it was recorded in Pittsburgh (hence the title). He was categoric that it was Patton, not Young. And Heid knows his organists! Go figure...

Bertrand.

Edited by bertrand
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Yeah, I knew that - they were loose with the title as well as the personnel listing.

It was in a conversation with Dixon that I first got the inkling that Larry was the organist. He said something like: 'Someone needs to talk to [big] John - I think it sounds like Larry Young'. Note that he did not say: 'I remember this date very well - it was Larry Young, not John Patton'.

Bill Heid remembered that it was recorded in Pittsburgh (hence the title). He was categoric that it was Patton, not Young. And Heid knows his organists! Go figure...

Bertrand.

Yeah, I guess this controversy will continue on for all time. That said, as much as I respect Bill Heid as a Young dicsiple....I can't imagine he would listen to that recording and say it was Patton. Especially given that the albums Big John made before and after that session bear no resembleance at all to the playing on Iron City. John told me it wasn't him, and I think for anyone who knows Big John's playing on a musical level, they would quickly identify that. The best evidence we have is our ears I think at this point. That's why Bill Heid's take is surprising to me as he's obviously an expert on Young.

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OK, I know we rehash this thing about once every two years or so on these boards. And in between times, I always forget the details.

How did Patton's name get on this date in the first place?? Assuming it is Young, what happened?

What's the back-story (again, probably, sorry) - ??

PS: My recent (2003) Savoy issue doesn't have a recording date (or none that jumped out at me just now when I looked). Do we even know these details? - or is this one of those dates we're luckly to pin down to just the year it was recorded?

Edited by Rooster_Ties
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i wonder if BJP cashed the checks??

BJP didn't pen any of the tunes, so would there have been checks over the years?

That's interesting. The title track doesn't have any writer listed. You'd expect at least that one of the three musicians' name would appear, particularly since it was titled because of having been recorded in Pittsburgh.

MG

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