Bob Dylan Modern Times

[jazzbo]

Hey Brian, grow up and get a life!

I don't care what eyes are upon me.

I know a little about Don Walser so what. He doesn't impact my world. I've got lots of music to listen to and lots of new things coming at me. I don't need the Chronicle for anything. I get local news from lots of sources. I actually happen to BE local. I regulate my time because I don't have enough of it for all the things I want to do. I'm over Pee Wee Crayton. I don't give a flute about Willie or Doug Sahm. I don't care if I've ever gone to Henry's. So what? More and more you're showing me that I have little in common with you or your priorities and the reverse is true. I'll just skip your posts. . . they used to be interesting, but now they're just you puffing up your chest and saying "look at me I'm so hip." Good for you!

See ya.

[jazzbo]

See there you go with your tired old shtick that anyone who isn't an arrested adolescent interested in exactly the same things you are is just (insert insult #345).

It's really wearying Brian.

Honestly, I've grown up, I have my introverted life finally arranged well, I don't need smokey dives and drunken frat boys and stoned out burn outs so I avoid most of the Austin night scene. It's for younger folk, or people who are living in a different reality. If you like swimming that sort of a pond, go for the breast stroke.

See ya BB.

[jazzbo]

Um Brian, I just don't want to share some private details with you, that's all. You sure don't make it attractive to do so. I think you're mistaken that I even want to hold a dialog with you. I don't reconcile my posting on Mighty 'Mo at all. I don't tie things up into little bows. Reconciliation is for accountants.

I don't personally care about what you think about my not reading the newspaper, the newspapers here bite and I would rather get my news online. I can safely ignore spending a lot of time on the life of Don Wasler, thank you very much. I know quite a bit about Texas blues boogie music, even from personal experience. But why should you concern yourself about that? You've already proven yourself the hip Peter Pan and impressed. . . someone I'm sure.

Dreadful sorry.

To get back on topic, I found this post from http://pool.dylantree.com/phorum5/read.php?1,654272 howlingly funny:

More stolen lyrics on Modern times!!!!!!

Posted by: Liam (---.ipt.aol.com)

Date: September 17, 2006 01:05AM

So I was listening to Modern Times, and just by coincidence I was also reading this book called "Bible," and sure enough, I noticed a bunch of phrases, lines, and concepts that Dylan stole.

For instance, the line "We all wear the same thorny crown" from "When the Deal Goes Down." In "Bible," there's a character named Jesus who also wears a crown of thorns.

Also, in "Bible," Jesus gives a whole sermon on how you should love thy neighbor. Sure enough, in "Ain't talkin," look at what Dylan so-called wrote on his own:

"I am a-tryin' to love my neighbor and do good unto others " Hmm, still think it's all a crazy COINCIDENCE? Then read on:

On Modern Times' defining track, "Beast with Two Backs," Dylan says, "It's gettin' hot, it's gettin' clear, There's a Beast approachin', and Armageddon outta here."

And meanwhile, "Bible" ends with (SPOILER) an event called "Armageddon" which involves the arrival of a "beast."

Anyway, stay tuned, because I have a plan to take care of that thieving Dylan, oooh! he makes me so mad!

Hot Ptah, more I think of it the more I agree with you. . . it's just wrong.

[jazzbo]

Ah Brian, I think you really overestimate the Chronicle. I think it's not that great. Have you ever gone to their offices? I went once years ago and it really turned me OFF. I kept reading that rag less and less. And less. If you dig it, fine. I've got no use for it myself.

What is there to talk about. . . Texas blues boogie music. You know what that is right? As he's hiring Charlie Sexton and Denny Freeman to sixstring Bob knows what it's about. It's not rocket science, doesn't need in depth analysis.

Look. I don't like a lot of the artists you trash, and I don't like a lot of the artists you laud. I have about 37 years of collecting recordings under my belt, and I don't need your guidance about Don or any country artist, or Texas artist, I already know what I like, and it does NOT include a lot of Texas country artists, sorry. I know why I don't like them. I don't pursue learning about things I'm not really interested in. Life is way too short for me. I'm not certain how many years I have on you, but I think it's a few. I don't have enough time to pursue those things that I AM interested in. But that is where I'm putting the effort. Texas country guys, even Wills and other swingers, just aren't on my list. I know a little about them, enough for me not to go further because. . . I don't want to.

You're not my third grade teacher so stop acting as if you were and handing out assignments. I don't want them. Maybe some others here want your homework. Any takers?

Lost and gone forever.

[Alexander]

I didn't know that Beck was a Scientologist. Are you sure about that?

I'm not Clem, but I am sure about Beck being a Scientologist.

Even if he is, so the hell what? Does Clem refuse to listen to Chick Corea, too?

[Alexander]

Who is this guy is probably a legitimate question?

Who is Dylan? When I think of that question, I think of the Kris Kristofferson song...Dylan is "partly fact, partly fiction...a walking contradiction..."

[Alexander]

You're not my third grade teacher so stop acting as if you were and handing out assignments. I don't want them. Maybe some others here want your homework. Any takers?

Lost and gone forever.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I find Brian/Clem's "hipper than thou" attitude to be extremely off-putting. The funny thing is that I get a LOT of ideas for music to check out from people on this board. When Jim or Lon or any number of people say, "Hey, check this out. It's really good," I'm likely to check it out. But Clem's "go listen to this and then come back and we'll talk" bit really makes me NOT want to try out the music he recommends...

[Kalo]

I just finished reading Dylan's Chronicles Vol. 1, which is well worth the time spent on it, and one thing he cops to from the very beginning of his songwriting career is appropriating chord structures, melodies, and lyrical fragments from all over the place. From the very beginning.

Nothing new under the sun.

[Soul Stream]

I play with DF whenever he's off the road with Dylan, as in just last weekend. I get the feeling that BD just digs his working band and had a lot of ideas and songs he wanted to record with them while they were hot and together. I think BD realized he had put together a pretty nice little blues band and took advantage of it. I'm not much of a Dylan expert, but doesn't seem like there's nothing wrong with that. If people would quit bitching that he's not as good as he used to be, maybe they could enjoy some good music. Ripping off blues guys...shit that's ALL blues guys do...is rip each other's shit off. You think BD doesn't know he's twisting that stuff to his liking....being a thief in a long line of thieves.

[jazzbo]

Clem you'd be surprised at how many living guys I hear. And lots of unsung unrecorded friends too.

I know who Bell and Day were. No interest in that folky Texas stuff though. Yodelers need not apply. Sorry. Dreadful sorry.

Hard-hearted? Just decided to give you back a little of your tactic.

Hipster? Hardly. Don't care.

See ya.

Edited October 1, 2006 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

Yeah Mike, blues guys rip off blues guys. Or did back further in the day.

There's something different to what Dylan is doing NOW when he has the power to be responsible, toss a few coins to estates,etc. And it's not just blues guys he's ripped!

I see it as reckless behavior (which is I think in his case the point) and I don't think musicans and composers would want it to be emulated and repeated by others.

[jazzbo]

Hey Mr. New York City, I'm looking forward to the day when you "have nothing to say to me." I need you talking to me like a hole in the head. I don't invite it or want it. I need you schooling me even less.

I know enough about all these guys you're listing there to know what the music is like. Some I like, some I can't stand (Gatemouth for one, Sissy Sahm for the other). I know enough to have A clue. I know the eighties versions.

I'm a fan of Dylan's words to be honest with you. My interest in Dylan sort of went south with "Slow Train" and all that Christian stuff. And I really turned away all through the eighties and I guess the media attention to his comeback albums got me itnerested again, and then Masked and Anonymous and the "No Direction Home" thing got me exploring back a little, and I picked up this new one because I wanted to hear what the controversy was about the song credits and just see what it was like, and Denny was on there, so I knew somewhat what to expect quality wise. I'm no rabid fan of the boy or the genre he seems to be dippin' his toes into. Been there and don't need to be there any longer, I've moved on.

To listen to this album you don't need to have spent time listening to a bunch of yodelers and assorted other past swingers to know that this is Texas blues boogie based, and to either enjoy it or not enjoy it. Jeez, I spent a lot of time in the eighties in Antone.s and other clubs listening to those girls like Lou Ann, Angela, Sara Brown, and to many may acts both Texan and otherwise, steering clear of the country stuff because frankly a lot of it was jive and it didn't float my boat jive or not. I listnened to Will's little bro Charlie when that was all he was. I've got requisite background, I'm not claiming to be an expert or wanting to be or know more. That's your bag and you can have it. Please don't open it around me.

If that shit floats your boat sail on. Please sail on. See ya. Wouldn't want to, etc.

Edited October 1, 2006 by jazzbo

[Soul Stream]

I feel pretty out of my league here. I don't even own a Bob Dylan record. Not even the current one, although I've heard most of it on the radio and at Borders. So, I really can't comment about it other than I think it sounded good and I like the vibe, the production and Dylan's voice and what he was saying.

I don't think you'll be hearing wailing guitar solos from DF in this context. It's not what the music is calling for....and that's one thing DF always keeps in mind. The stuff I heard, DF sounded super tasty to my ears.

[jazzbo]

I really like Gatemouth Brian. Didn't you read my post right? I just don't like Sahm, and Sissy seems to me to be the way his music sounds that's all. I doesn't do anything for me personally. There are so many others that do nothing for you, surely you can connect that the obverse is true for others. I wonder if you really get things somehow.

Texas Instruments, blah blah blah. Heard them. Not so impressed. Been to all kinds of places like Hole in the Wall, Outhouse, etc. When was the last time you were there NYC boy? It doesn't really matter if I like Dylan and have or have not heard TI or whomever. There are gazillions of words out there. I can pick and choose my own, just like you do. Again you're judging me, like you judge so many others on this board, exalting yourself. Don't you see how ridiculous that is?

Your opinion of me or what I could or should say about music means nothing to me.

Walk on by, see ya.

Edited October 1, 2006 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

You know, I'm coming to the conclusion you are clueless as to how you come off.

Walk on by. See ya.

[John L]

don't think that was same people; not my fave way to access that stuff but certainly worthwhile. i HATE (for most part) '74 Dylan/Band tour, before that was pretty good, no Robbie Robertson love here, sorry.

Interesting. I love Dylan with the Band and love the Basement tapes. I was at the Last Waltz and loved that. I was also at the Before the Flood tour Oakland performance. For some reason, it didn't excite me at all, and the record doesn't either. There is just something too smooth and calculated about it. I can understand why the Band of Gypsies was the next step. Something had to be done to make it raw and real again.

Edited October 2, 2006 by John L

[jazzbo]

I'm just walking by Brian. You don't get it, and I'm not playing your game. See ya, wouldn't want to, etc.

[jazzbo]

don't think that was same people; not my fave way to access that stuff but certainly worthwhile. i HATE (for most part) '74 Dylan/Band tour, before that was pretty good, no Robbie Robertson love here, sorry.

Interesting. I love Dylan with the Band and love the Basement tapes. I was at the Last Waltz and loved that. I was also at the Before the Flood tour Oakland performance. For some reason, it didn't excite me at all, and the record doesn't either. There is just something too smooth and calculated about it. I can understand why the Band of Gypsies was the next step. Something had to be done to make it raw and real again.

Yes, Before the Flood doesn't do much for me either. But a few boots of the tour I've heard do. Makes me wish they would do an official box of some of these or a big "Bootleg Volume." The Band and Bob CAN be very good listening. . . .

[GregK]

Interesting. I love Dylan with the Band and love the Basement tapes. I was at the Last Waltz and loved that. I was also at the Before the Flood tour Oakland performance. For some reason, it didn't excite me at all, and the record doesn't either. There is just something too smooth and calculated about it. I can understand why the Band of Gypsies was the next step. Something had to be done to make it raw and real again.

you were at the Last Waltz? Could you see the snowball hanging out of Neil Young's nose? And was everyone in the Band audible in the theater?

[John L]

Interesting. I love Dylan with the Band and love the Basement tapes. I was at the Last Waltz and loved that. I was also at the Before the Flood tour Oakland performance. For some reason, it didn't excite me at all, and the record doesn't either. There is just something too smooth and calculated about it. I can understand why the Band of Gypsies was the next step. Something had to be done to make it raw and real again.

you were at the Last Waltz? Could you see the snowball hanging out of Neil Young's nose? And was everyone in the Band audible in the theater?

Yes and yes. I was right up near the stage. It was a blast. It was in Winterland, not a great place for acoustics but not a complete disaster either.

[rostasi]

Apparently Chronicles wasn't exempt either.

[Matthew]

Apparently Chronicles wasn't exempt either.

Chronicles is just typical Bobness: I read it as a comedy because if there's one thing that book is not is revealing anything about the life or thought of Dylan. I thought it was a joke, and misleading to boot.

[Matthew]

I read it as a comedy because if there's one thing that book is not is revealing anything about the life or thought of Dylan.

i hear you Matthew but... but... amid all the well-turned & sometimes goofy bullshit-- re-read the parts abt late '50s, early '60s NYC. it contextualizes in ways that were ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS fuckin' obvious except that latterday Dylan Cultists rarely bothered to learn. (Some Minnesota stuff also.) True 'heads wouldn't be without their Fred Neil records, and at least be intimate w/ Dave Van Ronk, Holy Modal Rounders & the '50s hillbilly music Zimmy heard in Minnesota... also-- ah, well... another time but tho' some people didn't need it-- it was OBVIOUS-- if you or others dunno, go back & listen as Dylan did then. see what happens

c

I can understand all that (well not all but some). It seems that the reason the early section actually had some passion to it is that Dylan still retains that image of himself as a "Folksinger-hobo-on-the-road." After all, isn't that what the NET is accomplishing? It's Dylan living out that image to its fullest; it's just been updated with buses instead of trains. He just keeps coming back to these early days, no matter what he says.