Sonny Rollins

[Hardbopjazz]

My favorite

[felser]

I'd say 5 (or more) from the '50s, 3 (or more) from the '60s and anyone's guess after that.

I agree with Chuck.

For my taste, the fifties had a load of outstanding recordings by Rollins as both leader and sideman.I liked a few things from the sixties, but after that there were some recordings i enjoyed, but nothing at the level of his 50;s sessions.

Just my opinion. 

Also mine.  I'm a 50's Rollins guy through and through.

[JSngry]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe]

Maybe I'm being cheesy, but this will always be among my favorite Rollins solos...

 

[Mark Stryker]

The problem with picking one LP from the 80s is that while "Falling in Love with Jazz" is top to bottom the best, the singular peak of the cut "G Man" is truly Holy Shit Sonny on par with all the other Holy Shit Sonny from the past. So, what I really want to do is pick "Falling in Love with Jazz" and add "G-Man" as a 15 minute bonus track. Can I do that?. Fuck it, I'm gonna do it..

Edited July 11, 2015 by Mark Stryker

[felser]

The problem with picking one LP from the 80s is that while "Falling in Love with Jazz" is top to bottom the best, the singular peak of the cut "G Man" is truly Holy Shit Sonny on par with all the other Holy Shit Sonny from the past. So, what I really want to do is pick "Falling in Love with Jazz" and add "G-Man" as a 15 minute bonus track. Can I do that?. Fuck it, I'm gonna do it..

Do it.  That cut is magic, for sure, and to me came out of nowhere (as I had never seen him live - have been able to do so twice since it was released.  I later heard the stories of how on certain nights he still really brought it, even though the albums he was releasing were bland, and thankfully they captured one of them).

[JSngry]

Even better yet, make the G-Man cut the lead tune to Falling In Love With Jazz instead of "For All We Know", which is a completely disposable, and then put the CD on repeat, When it loops back from "Amanda" to "G-Man", you might be surprised at how little a drop off you feel, if any. And then you get the magnificent "Little Girl Blue" as a cool off.

People either not hearing this shit or taking it for granted or I don't know. But it's not on YouTube ("Tennessee Waltz: is, though, and that's another one that is splendid), so all I can say is who you gonna believe, me or YouTube? And by this time, we've all seen enough live Sonny Rollins (real or footage) to put the whole-body-swing to the audio, and oh lord help me jesus, please don't anybody say that such a thing is not relevant.

Not that I care, I don't, but I'm y'all's friend about shit like this, and I'll tell you, ok Dancing In The Dark, get that one - and any number f others - if you feel like it, there's some fun stuff on there, but once more, this time with feeling, Falling In Love With Jazz is worthy of repeated listening.

Whole-body-swing, body all in the music, who will deny?

[jlhoots]

My favorite

I like the original blue cover.

[JSngry]

This is the one they were selling when I was buying. I still prefer it, although it's definitely anachronistic.

[JSngry]

[JSngry]

[Joe]

Is there a good account anywhere of Sonny's conversion to Rosicrucianism / his years as a Rosicrucian? In my own preliminary search for more information, I cam across this:

http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2011/10/sonny-rollins-letter-to-coleman-hawkins.html

"There have been many young men of high potential and demonstrated ability who have unfortunately not been 'MEN' in their personal and offstage practices and who soon found themselves devoid of the ability to create music."

Edited July 12, 2015 by Joe

[Rabshakeh]

A random question:

For those who really rate Rollins' RCA records, do you think that, for the period, he still represented one of the absolute giants of jazz? I like them an awful lot, particularly the Hawkins/Bley one, but I am wondering whether I see them as the product of a leader, as I do with the earlier records, or more just as personal favourites. 

Silly subjective question, I know, but please give me your sensible subjective answers.

[Mark Stryker]

3 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

A random question:

For those who really rate Rollins' RCA records, do you think that, for the period, he still represented one of the absolute giants of jazz? I like them an awful lot, particularly the Hawkins/Bley one, but I am wondering whether I see them as the product of a leader, as I do with the earlier records, or more just as personal favourites. 

Silly subjective question, I know, but please give me your sensible subjective answers.

The older I get, the more I believe that Sonny's RCA recordings represent one of the greatest improvisers in jazz history -- and the greatest chord change player ever -- at the peak of his powers. If you told me I could only listen to Sonny's commercially recorded albums  made for ONE label for the rest of my life, plus one other record as a bonus, I'd pick the RCAs plus "A Night at the Village Vanguard" -- the authority and diversity are a high bar. The highest bar, actually.

"The Standard Sonny Rollins" is the essence of the art form. Sonny plays more in his first 16 bars on "Love Letters" than most cats play in an entire career.  Hell, just the pure sound he creates on the master take of "Afternoon in Paris"  on the "Now's the Time" LP is a miracle. Nobody has ever gotten a sound that deep and chiseled out of a saxophone.  Not Trane. Not Bird. Not Hawkins. Not Ayler. No one.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

For those who really rate Rollins' RCA records, do you think that, for the period, he still represented one of the absolute giants of jazz? ...but I am wondering whether I see them as the product of a leader...

Those are two different considerations.

But yes, those records individually have "flaws" but they are certainly products of "one of the absolute giants"...objectively, the sense of time and immediate place in those improvisations (which always begin right at the first note, probably even before the first note is actually sounded) stands out as perhaps the most refined/defined of any documented player, ever. The only others who are equal in this regard and to this degree (of this era) would be an unfettered Bird and an unimpeded Warne Marsh.

[Rabshakeh]

Thank you, both. For these great answers.

[JSngry]

The 1960s live recordings of this era (mostly boots in not-great sound) are generally at least as dazzling as these RCA records.

[Mark Stryker]

On 5/19/2022 at 1:35 PM, JSngry said:

Those are two different considerations.

But yes, those records individually have "flaws" but they are certainly products of "one of the absolute giants"...objectively, the sense of time and immediate place in those improvisations (which always begin right at the first note, probably even before the first note is actually sounded) stands out as perhaps the most refined/defined of any documented player, ever. The only others who are equal in this regard and to this degree (of this era) would be an unfettered Bird and an unimpeded Warne Marsh.

I almost included the point the point that the records have "flaws," but this is another point I've started to re-evaluate. What, exactly are those "flaws" record by record?  I mean, the short tune lengths and/or fadeouts on "The Standard Sonny Rollins" and "Now's the Time" are certainly frustrating at times and might be considered flaws in the creation of those LPs as "documents" -- I get it -- but I've long ago made my peace with that. "The Bridge" is a unified whole; no flaws there unless you want it to be something it's not. Same is true for "What's New" and "Live at the Village Gate." "Sonny Meets Hawk" has issues in that Sonny's contrariness and abstraction seem to me to be self-conscious to  fault and the  mind-blowing live version of  "Remember" from Newport shoulda been on the original recording. 

But still, it was not in Sonny's constitution to make a flawless record in 1963-64 in the Blue Note sense or even the Miles Columbia sense or Trane Impulse sense. I've been happier since I stopped trying to force this square peg into that round hole. Having said all that, I do want to hear what happened after the fade out of "Three Little Words" because Sonny sounds like he's gearing up to play for another 30 minutes, and I certainly wish "Afternoon in Paris" went on for longer than 2:43. Sonny's half chorus could've been the prelude to a symphony of improvisation. 

That idea that Sonny's improvisations start not only from the first note but perhaps even before that note is sounded is a sharp insight.  

Edited October 26, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[HutchFan]

Unlike Mark & Jim, I'm not qualified to say whether Rollins' RCA output is "great" or represents the work of a "giant."  So I'll skip that part of the question.  

However, I am qualified to say that I LOVE them as much as any records Sonny ever made -- including many more critically lauded albums that came before and after.   

 

Rab, I hope this is at least a half-answer to your question.   

 

[Mark Stryker]

50 minutes ago, JSngry said:

The 1960s live recordings of this era (mostly boots in not-great sound) are generally at least as dazzling as these RCA records.

Word.

Especially Paris, 1965 (Rovere/A.T.) and Copenhagen, 1965 (NHOP/Dawson).

Edited May 19, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

"Flaws":

The Bridge - not THAT good a record, really, other than "John S"., it never gets going, not like we all know was there to be had.

What's New -Side One, yes. Side Two...ehh...

Our Man In Jazz - "Dearly Beloved" focuses too much on the "arrangement" and now that we know what else was in the can...what a waste to have included it.

3 In Jazz - a winner, especially in that context.

Sonny Meets Hawk - "McKie's" - again, not necessary, nothing there but a track. But otherwise, mission accomplished per Paul Bley's sense that Sonny was in "kill your father" mode.

Now's The Time - ok, you got me on that one.

The Standard Sonny Rollins - and on this one too. short cuts but by design, it turns out. The aim was to get radio play and then sell records. apparently Sonny felt guilty about RCA paying him all that money and then never giving them a hit!

The Alternative Rollins - hey, flaws? What flaws? It's the record that shouldn't have happened, so take it and be happy.

Now, that's an objective look at it, because love requires an insertion of objectivity in order to be more than just infatuation. and I do love this stuff.

I pray that the full RCA session tapes still exist somewhere, in some form. Coda published a discography ofwhat "should" be there that, even if most of it was "ill-fated"...love accepts that.

 

 

[Mark Stryker]

10 minutes ago, JSngry said:

"Flaws":

The Bridge - not THAT good a record, really, other than "John S"., it never gets going, not like we all know was there to be had.

What's New -Side One, yes. Side Two...ehh...

Our Man In Jazz - "Dearly Beloved" focuses too much on the "arrangement" and now that we know what else was in the can...what a waste to have included it.

3 In Jazz - a winner, especially in that context.

Sonny Meets Hawk - "McKie's" - again, not necessary, nothing there but a track. But otherwise, mission accomplished per Paul Bley's sense that Sonny was in "kill your father" mode.

Now's The Time - ok, you got me on that one.

The Standard Sonny Rollins - and on this one too. short cuts but by design, it turns out. The aim was to get radio play and then sell records. apparently Sonny felt guilty about RCA paying him all that money and then never giving them a hit!

The Alternative Rollins - hey, flaws? What flaws? It's the record that shouldn't have happened, so take it and be happy.

Now, that's an objective look at it, because love requires an insertion of objectivity in order to be more than just infatuation. and I do love this stuff.

I pray that the full RCA session tapes still exist somewhere, in some form. Coda published a discography ofwhat "should" be there that, even if most of it was "ill-fated"...love accepts that.

 

 

Fair enough. Live at the Village Gate should have been a two-record set (at least). I know it's a bootleg, but I cherish the European box of all that material. But if we have to keep it to a single LP, then replace Dearly Beloved with the unreleased Lover from 7/28 if it'll fit, and if it won't, then cut Doxy and just make it a one-track side. 

There's a side two to What's New? Never get to it. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

9 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

There's a side two to What's New? Never get to it. 

Exactly.

Except...I had a piano-playing roommate whose girlfriend heard "Brownskin Girl" one time and then he had to learn it and play it at every gig of his or else he didn't get laid that night.

But otherwise, yeah. Exactly.

[HutchFan]

I think "Jungoso" ALONE justifies What's New. 

 

19 minutes ago, JSngry said:

The Bridge - not THAT good a record, really, other than "John S"., it never gets going, not like we all know was there to be had.

Oh man.  Different take here on The Bridge.  I very much think it's THAT good.

Just my 2 cents, of course.

 

[JSngry]

7 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

I think "Jungoso" ALONE justifies What's New. 

Yeah, and that's on Side One. Right after "If Ever I Would Leave you" which is also SO good.

8 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

Oh man.  Different take here on The Bridge.  I very much think it's THAT good.

People keep trying to advocate for it, and I get it, everybody wants it to be that good, some people need it to be that good. But it's like the RCA equivalent of a slightly-ok Milestone record, yeah, it's not at all bad, but is it everything you want of it? Not at all. It's a bit "reigned in", and even if that was the intent...sorry about that.