Verve Records- Orange label

[mandrill]

Found today two-fer of "Ella Fitzgerald Sings Rodgers and Hart" in a dollar bin.

It has a regular gatefold cover (like the one on CD)

but labels are orange (like one in this picture).

Judging from an appearance of jacket & cover (though it's pretty much Vg+ to M-) it doesn't look like a 70's or 80's re-issue.

Could it possibly be an original mono pressing?

I appreciate any information on this.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Mandrill

[(BB)]

Verve was Norman Granz' flagship label, which he began by consolidating his previous labels, Clef, Down Home and Norgran, and reissuing the bulk of the earlier titles. On the 2000 series, Verve used an orange or a blue label prior to switching to black with "Verve Records, Inc" on the bottom. For the 8000 series, the label was black with silver print and "Verve Records, Inc" on the bottom from 1956 through 1960, when the label was sold to MGM.

Most of the early printings through approximately 8390 featured the outline of a trumpet player (courtesy of David Stone Martin and a carry-over from Clef and Norgran labels) in the upper left. Later mono albums had a large "T" design (that looks somewhat like a thumb tack) splitting the label in three.

Note: the trumpet player on a later number does not automatically mean that it is a first pressing. Granz apparently used whatever label was available to him at the time of pressing. Nonetheless, the "trumpet player labels" are highly sought after and usually commands a premium when there is a choice between the "T" label and the "trumpet player".

The 1000 series was for traditional jazz while the 2000 series was used primarily for "pop" oriented selections, although some jazz, especially vocals, found their way here. Early pressings of the 2000s have an orange label, replaced by a light blue label and then, finally, the familiar silver on black "T" label. The 4000 series was created for Ella Fitzgerald's protean output.

What each of the above label variations had in common (with the 8000s) was an "MGV" prefix and "Verve Records, Inc" along the bottom perimeter of the label. When select titles were remixed in stereo and issued on the 6000 series in late '59, an "MGVS" prefix was used.

When the label was purchased by MGM in 1960, most of the catalog was reissued with the monos designated with a "V" and the stereos with a "V6", the original 8000 series number being kept of both. The new parent company retained the original label (black with silver print) but "MGM Records - A Divison of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Inc" was included on the bottom. A reissue series using a "VSP/VSPS" prefix was issued in the mid-'60s with most, if not all, of the stereo being rechanneled. From 1966 through 1971, MGM's Sunset address is also on the bottom. From 1972-75, a white label with blue MGM and Verve logos was used. White labe promos were issued.

From here.

[mandrill]

Verve was Norman Granz' flagship label, which he began by consolidating his previous labels, Clef, Down Home and Norgran, and reissuing the bulk of the earlier titles. On the 2000 series, Verve used an orange or a blue label prior to switching to black with "Verve Records, Inc" on the bottom. For the 8000 series, the label was black with silver print and "Verve Records, Inc" on the bottom from 1956 through 1960, when the label was sold to MGM.

Most of the early printings through approximately 8390 featured the outline of a trumpet player (courtesy of David Stone Martin and a carry-over from Clef and Norgran labels) in the upper left. Later mono albums had a large "T" design (that looks somewhat like a thumb tack) splitting the label in three.

Note: the trumpet player on a later number does not automatically mean that it is a first pressing. Granz apparently used whatever label was available to him at the time of pressing. Nonetheless, the "trumpet player labels" are highly sought after and usually commands a premium when there is a choice between the "T" label and the "trumpet player".

The 1000 series was for traditional jazz while the 2000 series was used primarily for "pop" oriented selections, although some jazz, especially vocals, found their way here. Early pressings of the 2000s have an orange label, replaced by a light blue label and then, finally, the familiar silver on black "T" label. The 4000 series was created for Ella Fitzgerald's protean output.

What each of the above label variations had in common (with the 8000s) was an "MGV" prefix and "Verve Records, Inc" along the bottom perimeter of the label. When select titles were remixed in stereo and issued on the 6000 series in late '59, an "MGVS" prefix was used.

When the label was purchased by MGM in 1960, most of the catalog was reissued with the monos designated with a "V" and the stereos with a "V6", the original 8000 series number being kept of both. The new parent company retained the original label (black with silver print) but "MGM Records - A Divison of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Inc" was included on the bottom. A reissue series using a "VSP/VSPS" prefix was issued in the mid-'60s with most, if not all, of the stereo being rechanneled. From 1966 through 1971, MGM's Sunset address is also on the bottom. From 1972-75, a white label with blue MGM and Verve logos was used. White labe promos were issued.

From here.

Thanks. Looks like it is actually an original pressing unless there was one with "trumpet player" label.

BTW, have anyone seen Ella Fitzgerald albums with "trumpet player" label? I've never seen one.

[Jim R]

If your LP (Ella's Rodgers & Hart Songbook) is from the 4000 series (what is it- 4022? 4023?), then why would it have an orange label? The article only refers to those appearing on early 2000 series LP's.

I'm pretty sure I remember having an orange label Verve which was an Australian issue. Fwiw.

Here's a site with lots of label images, fwiw. I have the Anita O'Day with the blue label, but I can't remember for sure if I had any other oranges besides the Aussie issue LP.

[Jim R]

BTW, have anyone seen Ella Fitzgerald albums with "trumpet player" label? I've never seen one.

Not sure, but she's one of the artists on the "Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl" LP set, and that was issued with a trumpeter label (see the first Verve LP image on the page I linked above).

[mandrill]

BTW, have anyone seen Ella Fitzgerald albums with "trumpet player" label? I've never seen one.

Not sure, but she's one of the artists on the "Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl" LP set, and that was issued with a trumpeter label (see the first Verve LP image on the page I linked above).

This article doesn't mention anything about 4000 series labels except that these series were created specifically for Ella Fitzgerald output.

[Jim R]

This article doesn't mention anything about 4000 series labels except that these series were created specifically for Ella Fitzgerald output.

The article mentions orange labels, and associates them only with the 2000 series. Your LP is not from the 2000 series. Should we infer from their information that orange labels were used in the 4000 series? How about the 8000 series?

What I find interesting is that the orange label in the image you posted above has a black "T". I don't remember seeing that before. The orange labels I have seen had a yellow T, like the one on the page I linked.

[mandrill]

This article doesn't mention anything about 4000 series labels except that these series were created specifically for Ella Fitzgerald output.

The article mentions orange labels, and associates them only with the 2000 series. Your LP is not from the 2000 series. Should we infer from their information that orange labels were used in the 4000 series? How about the 8000 series?

What I find interesting is that the orange label in the image you posted above has a black "T". I don't remember seeing that before. The orange labels I have seen had a yellow T, like the one on the page I linked.

Then one of these two must lie. The question is- which one?

Ella/Louis- Orange&Black

Ella/Louis- Orange&Yellow

Edited November 14, 2006 by Mandrill

[Jim R]

I don't think there's a lie here... just two different versions of a rare label, I would think. As I said, I've seen the orange and yellow label before.

Have you inspected yours carefully for any unusual info? Could it be some sort of promo, or foreign issue?

I wish somebody with some personal experience would check in here. This topic really doesn't belong in "discography"... maybe if it were in "the vinyl frontier" it would be getting more attention from some of our record hounds...

[Chuck Nessa]

FWIW, I never saw the orange/black label but I have an orange/yellow - MG V-2008, Gene Krupa "Drummer Man" with Anita and Roy.

[Jim R]

FWIW, I never saw the orange/black label...

Wow. The plot thickens...

[Chuck Nessa]

FWIW, I never saw the orange/black label...

Wow. The plot thickens...

Or the thought plickens.

[GA Russell]

FWIW, my 1993 CD of Astrud Gilberto - Beach Samba has an orange label with a green T and printing.

[Jim R]

[ASNL77]

I am looking for an original pressing of the Getz/Gilberto recording. Looking at the Goldmine book, the 1994 Mobile fidelity reissue costs now more than an original presssing. Is the sound on the Mobile Fidelity any better than on an original pressing?

Edited October 23, 2007 by ASNL77

[Chuck Nessa]

I'd go for the door.

[six string]

Thanks for sharing Supa Groover. I've never figured out the Verve label much. Hell I've learned some new things about the Bluenote label recently on this board. Sheesh.

I have an orange label Ella Sings Cole Porter but I don't know if it's an original or not.