B. Clugston Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Great advice, Ed, but warning about the Copenhagen date--what isn't included on the HB boxed set isn't that much material (just three or so fairly cuts, if I remember correctly). Before HG, the Copenhagen album was one of my favorite dates--and it remains top notch--but the doubling was frustrating (I mean, the Ayler album is still in print). Copenhagen probably ranks in my top three. To avoid doubling with Holy Ghost, I picked up the three extra tracks off of emusic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Great advice, Ed, but warning about the Copenhagen date--what isn't included on the HB boxed set isn't that much material (just three or so fairly cuts, if I remember correctly). Before HG, the Copenhagen album was one of my favorite dates--and it remains top notch--but the doubling was frustrating (I mean, the Ayler album is still in print). Copenhagen probably ranks in my top three. To avoid doubling with Holy Ghost, I picked up the three extra tracks off of emusic. So to clarify, if I get the Holy Ghost box, will I acquire the most significant Copenhagen material? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 You'll acquire most of it. Whether it's more significant is questionable (it's all from the same span of a few months, anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Great advice, Ed, but warning about the Copenhagen date--what isn't included on the HB boxed set isn't that much material (just three or so fairly cuts, if I remember correctly). Before HG, the Copenhagen album was one of my favorite dates--and it remains top notch--but the doubling was frustrating (I mean, the Ayler album is still in print). Copenhagen probably ranks in my top three. To avoid doubling with Holy Ghost, I picked up the three extra tracks off of emusic. So to clarify, if I get the Holy Ghost box, will I acquire the most significant Copenhagen material? Guy Yes. You will get the Ayler quartet playing six tracks at the Club Montmatre. Fantastic stuff. The Ayler Records release has three extras from a radio studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhodes Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 I think Ed does a good job (Surprise!)... ? Simon and I have some history but I don't know where this fits... You're surprised that I did a good job or I should be suprised that you think it's a good job? I mean...I could have let it go...but then...you could have left it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhodes Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Yeah, there is a book available in German, Spirits Rejoice by Peter Niklas Wilson. This is a good biography, simply much better than anything we have in English. Richard Koloda (sp?) has a draft of an Ayler bio. I saw it a couple of years back. It was quite extensive but a ways from final form. I imagine it is difficult to get something like that published. Perhaps someone else has a more recent update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhodes Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Witches and Devils and My Name is Albert Ayler are also worth seeking out. Particularly "Withes and Devils", originally "Spirits" on Debut. My list was far from complete. Ayler is one of those people about whom you could say, "Buy everything". I was trying to pair it down a bit...though that's not how it worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhodes Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 I don't think Ayler is particularly about important records, the consesus of those who heard him live seems to be that none of them fully capture the power of his playing. I saw Albert once, at the February '67 Village Theater concert that was part of the Impulse "Greewich Village" release. I don't think recordings are any less faithful to him than they are for Sonny Rollins...or, for that matter, Trane. Ayler was very strong...very strong. But he wasn't the only one. I usually find myself on the other end of this argument when the Sun Ra people start talking as if Gilmore just walked over everybody. But here I'll say that Gilmore was just as strong. I saw Albert, Trane, Pharoah (w/ Trane), Gilmore (w/ Ra), Rollins, all around the same time (mid to late 60's) and, if anything, Pharoah was the loudest. I'm thinking that's not necessarily the same as being the strongest. Albert's strength and the kind of sound he had...when he played melodies and used that wide vibrato with that kind of groaning quality...the strength of his sound projected in a unique way. But then...Gilmore at Slug's, the sound sometimes seemed so big it had no place to go. And Pharoah...I had this image at the Village Theater of the first three rows of seats being blown to the back of the hall. Recordings have their limitations. As Cecil said, the recording engineers bring down the power of the strongest players. You make the same adjustment with Albert as with anyone else with a big sound. It gets through...enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhodes Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 to me, this is way heavier, in its way, than Ayler = messenger-- bc that was a personal, transcendental quest & i ain't for transcending shit as long as the rest of folks are still down. check it out anyway-- A straw man... The messenger piece...the way you put it...is yours. Ayler was a player and the message is in the playing. If you think he wasn't in the middle of it...you didn't see him walking down Eastern Parkway with vaseline on his face. Nas or whoever can posture about shooting dj's till the cows come home...or till the next time there's a raid at Kahlua's... But neither him or any of his boys have any words with the power of Albert's notes... And nobody is going to raise up with Nas's posturing. It takes more than music... Albert played is ass off... That's all the message that anyone has. Nas... Huh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Weil Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 I think Ed does a good job (Surprise!)... ? Simon and I have some history but I don't know where this fits... You're surprised that I did a good job or I should be suprised that you think it's a good job? I mean...I could have let it go...but then...you could have left it out... I meant I liked it and I like your stuff generally. It's just you're real good and I wanted to show my appreciation of you being here. History...let's go private, Ed. Simon Weil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 (edited) to me, this is way heavier, in its way, than Ayler = messenger-- bc that was a personal, transcendental quest & i ain't for transcending shit as long as the rest of folks are still down. check it out anyway-- A straw man... The messenger piece...the way you put it...is yours. Ayler was a player and the message is in the playing. If you think he wasn't in the middle of it...you didn't see him walking down Eastern Parkway with vaseline on his face. Nas or whoever can posture about shooting dj's till the cows come home...or till the next time there's a raid at Kahlua's... But neither him or any of his boys have any words with the power of Albert's notes... And nobody is going to raise up with Nas's posturing. It takes more than music... Albert played is ass off... That's all the message that anyone has. Nas... Huh... Not that I disagree with you specifically (or clem, for that matter)--and with all due respect to the very respectable parties herein involved--but the strong dualism among music communities, genres, idioms, interests, etc. isn't doing anyone any favors. I wouldn't agree with clem on that point, either, but that put-downs beget put-downs (and I'm not entirely sure that clem's statement--correct me if I'm wrong--was so much a put-down as it was a probably-not-entirely-unfounded interpretation of the Ayler ethos) is a drag. Edited December 5, 2006 by ep1str0phy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 It's been mentioned above, but Vibrations is probably my favorite. Just adding another vote. Spiritual Unity and Spirits Rejoice are great records, too. I also like Witches and Devils more than most seem to. It gets above average play from me. NY Eye and Ear Control has always been a let down for me, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 NY Eye and Ear Control has always been a let down for me, but that's just me. Yes, but see the film! Can't say I get much out of the endless shots of walking-woman cutouts, but the footage of the band, esp. the closeup shots (Gary Peacock with a "get the f*** away from me" scowl, Sunny Murray completely spacey), is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 (edited) Maybe it was the MB diet... Edited December 5, 2006 by ep1str0phy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Dickey Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Just wondering, do those "bulltets" cause much damage? I shoot black powder, so I don't know about "bulltets". ??? ------HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 what happneed 2 that thread about the broadcast in europe this wk of the 'my name is albert ayler'? i cant find it now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jww Posted December 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 What do you all think of some of the last live dates by Ayler? The water reissue Nuits and the newESP Riviera date? I went ahead and picked up New Grass. Is Healing Force worth picking up or are some working versions in the HG box I picked up (haven't listened yet)? Would you all spring for Prophecy or are there enough versions on HG? Great, now I AM obsessed with this, and there goes the $100 self-imposed limit... jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 The Riviera dates are fine - can't say anything about the impulse studio stuff though. Now that you have be box, make it next priority to fill in the gaps - I add a second, strong recommendation for "My Name is Albert Ayler" (Black Lion) - the version of Summertime is indeed quite something - One of the most touching pieces of music to be heard! The spirituals album is good, too ("Goin Home", also on Black Lion). About the Quartets with Cherry: I prefer "Hilversum" to "Vibrations" (on CD on Freedom). You should be able to get the Hilversum date by email from that Coppens guy - search for the Albert Ayler website and check there (in the news section, I assume - lots of good info is hidden there, the site is badly structured). Then, ther's a good live album of the strings band on hatOLOGY (Lörrach/Paris 1966) - get that one before it goes OOP, too (I have no idea how soon that will be)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Would you all spring for Prophecy or are there enough versions on HG? It's worth it; if you get it from ESP (or on the old Abraxas CD), you also get "Bells," which is a motherfucker... Edited December 6, 2006 by clifford_thornton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Would you all spring for Prophecy or are there enough versions on HG? It's worth it; if you get it from ESP (or on the old Abraxas CD), you also get "Bells," which is a motherfucker... Isn't that part of the ESP box anyway? Just in case: the Ayler set includes another set from the same recording session - great stuff, of cousre! I think the Ayler tree that got sort of useless now that the HG box is out, included an alternate take from one cut on "Prophecy", which is not in the box. I have a vinyl dub CD (GetBack is the label, I think) of "Bells/Prophecy", need to upgrade that some day! The music is terrific, but I thought that (illegitimate) ESP box would include it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jww Posted December 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) The Abraxas ESP box has Spiritual Unity/Bells/New York E&E/Spirits Rejoice, no Prophecy. I know, I know, I need it all, but it starts to snowball and then .... jw (some of them, Hilversum/Vibrations are hard to find/expensive, etc..) Edited December 6, 2006 by jww Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jww Posted December 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Alright, great... the snowball's rolled. Just ordered Nuits, Prophecy, Riviera, Music healing force and Spirits (witches/devils) from cd universe. I will never read this board again. jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Strange there isn't a single CD issue of Prophecy. All I can think of is that 2CD set with all the Cellar material that somebody issued in the mid-90s (can't remember and don't feel like looking it up), and you have half of that on HG. I like Prophecy pretty well; have had it on ESP vinyl for years and it definitely feels different than Spiritual Unity - more open and bled-out, if you catch my drift. Edit: didn't see you got a CD of it. Is this the combined session with "Bells" or some bootleg insanity that I was unaware of? Edited December 6, 2006 by clifford_thornton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jww Posted December 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 No the Prophecy I ordered just has 5 tracks. The Bells came in the "box" on its own disc of 20min. There is a Bells/Prophecy twofer available, but since I had Bells, I just ordered the ESP Prophecy. I hope I will enjoy the two 1970s live discs I ordered (Nuits/Riviera). I think Spirits/Witches & devils should be good too. It is a re-issue with a funky cover from 2005, I think on Breathless(?), but still has just the4 tracks. (Also snuck in the Village of the Pharoahs by Mr.Sanders on the order....) Too many discs, too little time... jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 What do you all think of some of the last live dates by Ayler? The water reissue Nuits and the newESP Riviera date? I went ahead and picked up New Grass. Is Healing Force worth picking up or are some working versions in the HG box I picked up (haven't listened yet)? Would you all spring for Prophecy or are there enough versions on HG? Great, now I AM obsessed with this, and there goes the $100 self-imposed limit... jw The Riviera date has a killer "Ghosts" and a few other interesting moments, but it's overall average. It sounds like the rhythm section doesn't know many of the songs. The Water disc is much better with Call Cobbs added to the mix. They do a great "Holy Family." Healing Force is much better than New Grass. There are no working versions in the Holy Ghost box. Prophecy is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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