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Ayler recommendations


jww

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"Hi, organissimo, long time listener, first time caller..." I am curious as to what you all would recommend as the next purchases for one expanding their Albert Ayler collection. I have the 2cd Greenwich Village and Love Cry. Enjoy both. I have about $100 or so to spend and was wondering what to get next. Holy Ghost box? ESP studio box? Slugs Saloon? others? Let the games and flames begin. :w jw

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Go with the ESPs--especially Spiritual Unity--to get some sense of what Ayler could do in a longer-form small group recording. These recordings (w/Gary Peacock and Sunny Murray, and Don Cherry made it a quartet) are, for me, just as important as the "string" band albums toward "getting" some sense of Ayler's overall approach to improvisation and spiritual "ethos".

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I agree with that solid advice. . . .

And yet, I sort of disagree, because if you have those dollars the Holy Ghost box. . . well it's such a great investment, the book (and I mean BOOK) that comes with it, the interviews, the copious material. . . . I know ME and in your shoes I'd grab the box set and then concentrate on getting his other material. . . chronologically. Because I think if you get the box, and already loving those two releases you have, you'll be getting it all over time.

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The HG boxed set is a great document, not least because the book is one of maybe three solid compositional documents we have on Ayler at present (the others being the Jeff Schwartz biography online and the Wilmer chapter in As Serious As Your Life--which is actually included in the book). Also, the boxed set gives a great overview of Ayler's career, and follows through essentially all of the important strains in his recording life.

I'd say, ultimately, that it's worth however much money you can get it for (around $90-95 seems to be the basic price). I'm not sure how great it is as a starting point, though, because, as a claimed "rarities" set, it doesn't cover the major recorded junctures (i.e., it gets the periods in there, but it doesn't include many of the pivotal documents that have shaped our understanding of Ayler over the years--the ESPs, the Impulses, etc.). So it's really the choice of the listener--you can come in headlong (and collect the supposedly most "important" documents later on), or you can take the well-tread, if less ambitious steps with the "classic" material.

Either way, if you end up loving this stuff enough, you will need to hear all of it.

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Well, a personal favorite Cherry quartet session of mine (having not gotten to know Hilversum) is Vibrations (also known as Ghosts, with Peacock, Murray in tow). There's an interview somewhere where Ayler says that it was the only time that his group got recorded right (which seems arguable), but, whatever the case, it's one of the bess cross-sections of Ayler's small-group music and compositions that we've got. Cherry just kills it on this one.

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Regarding the box...

I'd say, ultimately, that it's worth however much money you can get it for (around $90-95 seems to be the basic price). I'm not sure how great it is as a starting point, though, because, as a claimed "rarities" set, it doesn't cover the major recorded junctures (i.e., it gets the periods in there, but it doesn't include many of the pivotal documents that have shaped our understanding of Ayler over the years--the ESPs, the Impulses, etc.).

...I pretty much agree with this. I have the box and think it's a very important set of music and a wonderful artifact for all the reasons given...but it's not the core of Ayler's accomplishments.

I'll be a bit more emphatic than some of the other posters...

Get the key 1964 material first. It is Ayler's best playing, with just a few exeptions, and the quartet sets with Cherry are Ayler's best ensemble work.

The quartet material is the "Spiritual Unity" trio plus Cherry. There's a bit more to it than the items already referenced.

Trios

"Spiritual Unity", on ESP. "Ghosts, Second Variation" is, IMO, Ayler's best recorded solo and perhaps the definitive demonstration of the possibilities for this kind...and level...of free jazz.

The Cellar Cafe material; recorded a month earlier (June). One set was released as "Prophesy" on ESP. The "Prophesy" set and a second set was released on a bootleg on the InRespect label entitled, "Albert Smiltes with Sunny". The second set was reissued legitimately in the Revenant box. AFAIK, all issues of the first set...the one on "Prophesy"...play fast, including the one on InRespect, which was supposed to have been speed corrected. There is a version of "Spirits" on this first set...mistitled...that's a killer in its own right.

Quatets with Don Cherry

"Vibrations" (Arista/Freedom), originally issued as "Ghosts" on debut. The firs of the quartets. Many people feel this is Albert's best album.

"Hilversum Sessions", originally issued on Osmosis (lp); reissued on cd (label?). Recorded two months later. Little to choose between the two. Another superlative set.

"The Copenhagen Tapes", Ayler Records. A live session fom the Cafe Monmartre and a studio date from Danish Radio. The Monmartre session was reissued in the Revenant box but the Ayler Records cd is the only commercial issue of the rarer Danish Radio session. Find it. The Monmarte date is right there with "Vibrations" and "Hilversum"; the Danish Radio date is maybe a shade behind them.

This stuff is close the Coleman and Coltrane quartets in terms of its accomplishments and importance.

Most of the material from '65 on features Albert's brother, Donald, on trumpet. Of this, I prefer the '65 material with Sunny Murray on drums. There are two ESP's: "Bells" and "Spirits Rejoice". This is perhaps the best introduction to Albert's marching thing and his usage of themes like the French national anthem. I prefer "Spirits Rejoice" but you will probably want both. Charles Tyler is an added plus on alto.

The '66 and early '67 material features Beaver Harris or Ronald Shannon on drums and Michel Sampson on violin for Tyler. The repertoire is similar to '66. On record, at least, I think it's not quite as effectively done but it has its moments...for me these are usually when Ayler is playing. There's a lot of this on several labels: Impulse, Hat Hut, Base, several boots, and some in the Revenant box.

Of the material after that, the 1968 "Love Cry" cd has one track - "Love Cry II" - that was not issued on the lp and which has some of the elements of the '64-'67 material. After that, Albert made some crossover music that is the subject of another thread on this board. Listen for yourself. I don't like it.

The Revenant box has some earlier material and fleshes out the '64-'67 period with material that has not been issued legitimately elsewhere. But, if you want to be systematic, I would start with '64, move through the "Love Cry" date, then look at pre-'64 and post-'68.

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Great advice, Ed, but warning about the Copenhagen date--what isn't included on the HB boxed set isn't that much material (just three or so fairly cuts, if I remember correctly). Before HG, the Copenhagen album was one of my favorite dates--and it remains top notch--but the doubling was frustrating (I mean, the Ayler album is still in print).

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The HG boxed set is a great document, not least because the book is one of maybe three solid compositional documents we have on Ayler at present (the others being the Jeff Schwartz biography online and the Wilmer chapter in As Serious As Your Life--which is actually included in the book). Also, the boxed set gives a great overview of Ayler's career, and follows through essentially all of the important strains in his recording life...

Yeah, there is a book available in German, Spirits Rejoice by Peter Niklas Wilson. This is a good biography, simply much better than anything we have in English. I have it, scanned it, put it through a translation device and read it (although I have a bit of German, this is the best way for me).

I'd say, ultimately, that it's worth however much money you can get it for (around $90-95 seems to be the basic price). I'm not sure how great it is as a starting point, though, because, as a claimed "rarities" set, it doesn't cover the major recorded junctures (i.e., it gets the periods in there, but it doesn't include many of the pivotal documents that have shaped our understanding of Ayler over the years--the ESPs, the Impulses, etc.). So it's really the choice of the listener--you can come in headlong (and collect the supposedly most "important" documents later on), or you can take the well-tread, if less ambitious steps with the "classic" material.

I think that notion of "major recorded junctures" is a valid one. On that point, just get "Spirits Rejoice". The other record that doesn't seem to be mentioned is "My Name is Albert Ayler", recorded with a straightahead rhythm section mostly. It has this one track "Summertime" which I think probably qualifies as a masterpiece. Kind of has the same message as Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit" to me.

Other records, well it's difficult to know...I think Ed does a good job (Surprise!) of outlining Ayler's recorded history. You get an awful lot of material and variety (incl important stuff unavailable elsewhere) in the box. Much of it is very good. I think you have to make up your mind whether you want to go the important documents route, or the, more extensive, box route. However:

Either way, if you end up loving this stuff enough, you will need to hear all of it.

Is right.

Simon Weil

[i don't know, I would probably get the box plus Spiritual Unity, if I could afford it.]

Edited by Simon Weil
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Great list, Ed! I second Ed's list, and the opinion that this material is much more essential than the Ayler Box. Get the discs on Ed's list first (although you might want to wait temporarily on the Copenhagen disc since it is on the Box). If you hunger for more at that point, go for the Box.

Witches and Devils and My Name is Albert Ayler are also worth seeking out.

Edited by John L
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Ed's account is pretty much on the mark. I think I'd only add that I actually slightly prefer The Hilversum Sessions to Vibrations, in part because the recording is a bit better on HS, in part because some of the solos & statements of heads are a little stronger. But basically if you have one you'll want the other--& despite the similarities of repertoire the differences between versions are sometimes quite pronounced!

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For how much longer will that box be available? If it's an open-ended thing, then yeah, hold off, if for no other reason than there seems to be a consensus as to what you need to hear before you hear something else :crazy::crazy::crazy: . But if it's a limited edition type thing, then I'd not wait too long. You gotta balance the curriculum with the pragmatism.

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I don't think Ayler is particularly about important records, the consesus of those who heard him live seems to be that none of them fully capture the power of his playing. If I had $100 to spend I'd get the box ($100+ full retail, 30% at Borders w/coupon or ? = $70+) and either Bells or Spiritual Unity and Music is the Healing Force and then see... I much prefer the live trio stuff from '64 to Spiritual Unity, I think it's better recorded and performed. But the thing with Ayler is that at pretty much every juncture, whether it's standards with clueless rhythm sections, trios w/Murray, 4tets w/ Cherry, the strings bands with Donald, live in Franch at the end, or whatever, there's an alternate version that's six of one/half a dozen of the other. Or pretty close...

Oh, almost forgot, the Spirituals date (available under multiple titles, as is much of his stuff) is beautiful and important for understanding where Albert was coming from, although it would serve that function better if it was reissued with the originals cut at the same date (Witches & Devils, right? Or am I confused...is there anywhere online that straightens out all the confusion surrounding Ayler's album and song titles?)

Whatever you decide, enjoy!

Edited by danasgoodstuff
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ayler-- vanguard-- vinyl-- good acid-- hippie chix-- fiddles cellos drums-- heavy cats-- more hippie chix-- bell bottoms out to fucking H-E-R-E man!!-- groovy to & afro-- 1966 ok

the troof

** is **

marchin' in!

(make sure you check this out tex)

That last one puts The Cowsills' version into a whole 'nother light...

Would that there was accompanying video.

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Not to end this discussion, as it is enlightening, but I took the plunge today. Had a 30% borders coupon AND $24 in the "holiday bonus reward" money they offer, so I got both the ESP box and the Holy Ghost box for less than $110, tax and out the door... :excited: Now to find time to listen... Thanks again, jww

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Yeah, there is a book available in German, Spirits Rejoice by Peter Niklas Wilson. This is a good biography, simply much better than anything we have in English. I have it, scanned it, put it through a translation device and read it (although I have a bit of German, this is the best way for me).

I think that notion of "major recorded junctures" is a valid one. On that point, just get "Spirits Rejoice". The other record that doesn't seem to be mentioned is "My Name is Albert Ayler", recorded with a straightahead rhythm section mostly. It has this one track "Summertime" which I think probably qualifies as a masterpiece. Kind of has the same message as Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit" to me.

Other records, well it's difficult to know...I think Ed does a good job (Surprise!) of outlining Ayler's recorded history. You get an awful lot of material and variety (incl important stuff unavailable elsewhere) in the box. Much of it is very good. I think you have to make up your mind whether you want to go the important documents route, or the, more extensive, box route. However:

Is right.

Simon Weil

[i don't know, I would probably get the box plus Spiritual Unity, if I could afford it.]

I forgot about the Wilson! Hopefully, we'll see a decent translation in our lifetimes (alongside the scores of Euro improv books that are as of yet inaccessible to the better part of the American community...)

Good music on the ESP box, although it's (from what I can gather) another one of those 'sordid' licenses...

Danas... is good on that point. By most accounts, nothing we've got will capture what Ayler was like live--so there's some stuff that's more lauded than others (in terms of recorded output), but, sadly, we'll never get around to seeing the cat blow holes in walls with his horn.

And Clem--Nas and Ayler come from and go to very different places, but the Black Revolutionary Continuum is pretty big, no? (and the Olu Dara connection drives it home...) As far as Ayler is concerned--I think the transcendental "quest" thing has a lot more depth given the fact that it's coming out of such dystopic circumstances. The opposite might be Shepp, who is still (dependent on whose words you court) a misanthrope, although not quite down.

Edited by ep1str0phy
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Quatets with Don Cherry

"Vibrations" (Arista/Freedom), originally issued as "Ghosts" on debut. The firs of the quartets. Many people feel this is Albert's best album.

"Hilversum Sessions", originally issued on Osmosis (lp); reissued on cd (label?). Recorded two months later. Little to choose between the two. Another superlative set.

"The Copenhagen Tapes", Ayler Records. A live session fom the Cafe Monmartre and a studio date from Danish Radio. The Monmartre session was reissued in the Revenant box but the Ayler Records cd is the only commercial issue of the rarer Danish Radio session. Find it. The Monmarte date is right there with "Vibrations" and "Hilversum"; the Danish Radio date is maybe a shade behind them.

Are any of these available on CD? I assume the Copenhagen is?

Where does New York Eye and Ear Control fit into the chronology?

Guy

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