look at this - how to buy a essential jazz collection

[peebles]

http://feedback.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.d...d=recordsforall

24 negative feedbacks as of this morning.

[clifford_thornton]

I mean, obviously the guy is a fuckall, but it's not the scam of the century either.

Also, I don't quite understand why - and I've stated this before - auctions with no pictures, vague descriptions and a seller with no history of dealing in extraordinarily valuable Blue Note LPs, would garner that much bidding attention. These records are certainly findable from reputable sellers and dealers, such as Atomic, bullsite2000, Roberto Castelli, Armand Lewis and a number of other folks. I would NEVER pay a grand for a title that I can't verify is in solid condition, much less verifiably extant!

So, though you all are probably good folks, you were foolish to bid on these auctions. My sympathy is rather minimal.

Edited February 2, 2007 by clifford_thornton

[jazzguy43]

Hi there, it is I jazzguy43!!! Yes, I stopped BULLSHITFORALL cold in his tracks!! I want to thank you all for the kind words re my actions. As far as the negs this creep left me I DO NOT CARE!! if I saved anyone from getting ripped off I'll gladly take the hits! Ebay has some real problems, one of them is preventing retalitory feedback from jerkoff sellers. All of my negs are retalitory after being ripped off! I hope everyone who paid RECORDSFORNONE gets their money back..call paypal! if you paid that way..log on to your account and scroll to the bottom, click on contact us, and call them up!! TELL EM Jazzguy43 SENT YOU! BTW, I never paid him. I got lots of emails from RIPOFFFORALL, contact me at cox.net w/my moniker jazzguy43. Looking forward to hearing from you all!!!!!!

[peebles]

I've stated this before - auctions with no pictures, vague descriptions and a seller with no history of dealing in extraordinarily valuable Blue Note LPs, would garner that much bidding attention....

So, though you all are probably good folks, you were foolish to bid on these auctions. My sympathy is rather minimal.

Thanks for sharing.

As for why the bidding attention, that's easy: folks were looking for a deal. If ripoffsforall had turned out to be legit, the records I was watching would have been bargains: about half the price and in better condition than the last ones I saw sold. The middle of the holidays ... a seller that isn't on every collector's "favorites" list ... that's how "bargains" are found on eBay. The temptation can be difficult to resist.

Some resisted, some didn't.

Likewise, the temptation to criticize those who bid on the auctions is difficult to resist.

Some resisted. Some didn't.

[K1969]

the temptation to criticize those who bid on the auctions is difficult to resist. Some resisted. Some didn't.

The criticism is valid, and on pages 1-3 it was totally warranted.....but it gets a bit "told you so" by the time you arrive at page 6 and have already read my own self-criticisms.

Pay pal USA are now saying that they can't retrieve the money from Recordsfornoone's account , announcing that they have "taken action against him". I just hope that this isn't short hand for "Put on a shelf and gradually forget about it" ALL the criteria for pay pal protetion were satisfied by the auctions (not less than 98% positive feedback at the time of the auction, from an accepted pay pal member country which Italy is, brandishing the pay pal protection sign, verified pay pal seller, etc, etc). The presence of pay pal protection was one of the factors that contributed to my decision to bid and pay. There's going to be an almighty scandal if they don't hold their word. If pay pay put their protection stamp onto auctions, obvious scam or not, they must be then follow it through to the end. Otherwise Pay Pal buyer protection means nothing at all - and this is what people will read about in blogs like this and hopefuly in print too, if they do nothing about it. Another factor why I paid is because I had previously filed a claim via paypal and was refunded rapidly with no questions asked - that time there was alot less $ at stake - but this time around the fraud is much clearer. Money talks - and they said it - "insured up to 2000$"

Edited February 5, 2007 by K1969

[jazzhound]

the temptation to criticize those who bid on the auctions is difficult to resist. Some resisted. Some didn't.

The criticism is valid, and on pages 1-3 it was totally warranted.....but it gets a bit "told you so" by the time you arrive at page 6 and have already read my own self-criticisms.

Pay pal USA are now saying that they can't retrieve the money from Recordsfornoone's account , announcing that they have "taken action against him". I just hope that this isn't short hand for "Put on a shelf and gradually forget about it" ALL the criteria for pay pal protetion were satisfied by the auctions (not less than 98% positive feedback at the time of the auction, from an accepted pay pal member country which Italy is, brandishing the pay pal protection sign, verified pay pal seller, etc, etc). The presence of pay pal protection was one of the factors that contributed to my decision to bid and pay. There's going to be an almighty scandal if they don't hold their word. If pay pay put their protection stamp onto auctions, obvious scam or not, they must be then follow it through to the end. Otherwise Pay Pal buyer protection means nothing at all - and this is what people will read about in blogs like this and hopefuly in print too, if they do nothing about it. Another factor why I paid is because I had previously filed a claim via paypal and was refunded rapidly with no questions asked - that time there was alot less $ at stake - but this time around the fraud is much clearer. Money talks - and they said it - "insured up to 2000$"

just because they can't get the money from his account doesn't seem to mean they would not compensate victims as they promise. did they say that? If so

my recommendation is to contact all other victims of this fraud possibly thru jazzguy 43 who has info related to emails and then get a lawyer to act on everyones behalf on payPals case. and ebay ... they will change their tune real fast.

I also recommend using a credit card to pay Paypal for an extra layer of protection.

when some crook tried to rip me off on ebay , I filed a claim with the credit card company I used to pay BidPay in this case. they reversed the charges. then whey Bidpay came after me, whose logo appeared on all the sellers ebay listings, I told them I would see them in court. I never heard from them again.

Edited February 5, 2007 by jazzhound

[porcy62]

the temptation to criticize those who bid on the auctions is difficult to resist. Some resisted. Some didn't.

The criticism is valid, and on pages 1-3 it was totally warranted.....but it gets a bit "told you so" by the time you arrive at page 6 and have already read my own self-criticisms.

Pay pal USA are now saying that they can't retrieve the money from Recordsfornoone's account , announcing that they have "taken action against him". I just hope that this isn't short hand for "Put on a shelf and gradually forget about it" ALL the criteria for pay pal protetion were satisfied by the auctions (not less than 98% positive feedback at the time of the auction, from an accepted pay pal member country which Italy is, brandishing the pay pal protection sign, verified pay pal seller, etc, etc). The presence of pay pal protection was one of the factors that contributed to my decision to bid and pay. There's going to be an almighty scandal if they don't hold their word. If pay pay put their protection stamp onto auctions, obvious scam or not, they must be then follow it through to the end. Otherwise Pay Pal buyer protection means nothing at all - and this is what people will read about in blogs like this and hopefuly in print too, if they do nothing about it. Another factor why I paid is because I had previously filed a claim via paypal and was refunded rapidly with no questions asked - that time there was alot less $ at stake - but this time around the fraud is much clearer. Money talks - and they said it - "insured up to 2000$"

just because they can't get the money from his account doesn't seem to mean they would not compensate victims as they promise. did they say that? If so

my recommendation is to contact all other victims of this fraud possibly thru jazzguy 43 who has info related to emails and then get a lawyer to act on everyones behalf on payPals case. and ebay ... they will change their tune real fast.

I also recommend using a credit card to pay Paypal for an extra layer of protection.

when some crook tried to rip me off on ebay , I filed a claim with the credit card company I used to pay BidPay in this case. they reversed the charges. then whey Bidpay came after me, whose logo appeared on all the sellers ebay listings, I told them I would see them in court. I never heard from them again.

Good suggestion. A legal action against them is exactly that kind of exposure all these cyber-tycoons of the cyberspace/cybercapitalism/cybertrade wish to avoid. They always tend to give an image of ultra modern liberal selfmademen, more interested in improving our life then their bank account.

When the goin' gets tough, the tough get goin'

Edited February 5, 2007 by porcy62

[jazzhound]

Hi there, it is I jazzguy43!!! Yes, I stopped BULLSHITFORALL cold in his tracks!! I want to thank you all for the kind words re my actions. As far as the negs this creep left me I DO NOT CARE!! if I saved anyone from getting ripped off I'll gladly take the hits! Ebay has some real problems, one of them is preventing retalitory feedback from jerkoff sellers. All of my negs are retalitory after being ripped off! I hope everyone who paid RECORDSFORNONE gets their money back..call paypal! if you paid that way..log on to your account and scroll to the bottom, click on contact us, and call them up!! TELL EM Jazzguy43 SENT YOU! BTW, I never paid him. I got lots of emails from RIPOFFFORALL, contact me at cox.net w/my moniker jazzguy43. Looking forward to hearing from you all!!!!!!

good to see Columbo on the scene here. stop by more often.

[K1969]

I also recommend using a credit card to pay Paypal for an extra layer of protection.

when some crook tried to rip me off on ebay , I filed a claim with the credit card company I used to pay BidPay in this case. they reversed the charges. then whey Bidpay came after me, whose logo appeared on all the sellers ebay listings, I told them I would see them in court. I never heard from them again.

Good advice, thanks. I paid by credit card with Pay pal so I'll contact visa. I'm in contact with two other burned buyers one of whom also knows a third who is a lawyer who's gone to the NY attorney general's office to day to find out his rights. Pay pal today told me that they have an outside agency called the MRO or something who are responsable to "go out and get the money back". Sounds like they're getting down and dirty.

Edited February 5, 2007 by K1969

[Aggie87]

Who are all these new people? Come join the rest of the board!

[Sneakywax]

Hey gang. I am a long-time lurker on this site. It's great. I am also one of the misguided that participated in recordsforall's auction.

Long-time ebay buyer. I've bought hundreds of pieces of vinyl on Ebay over the past 7 or so years and admittedly paid for an education along the way. Prior to this fiasco my only truly bad experiences on Ebay, other than overpaying for LPs, were receiving a few overgraded records and getting sucked into the occasional bidding frenzy. I saw recordsforall's feedback rating and the paypal buyer protection plan offered on the auctions and the relatively low-range prices and jumped in on a few records. I've been in touch with some of the other "winners" in the auction.

Wanted to second some of the thoughts shared above. Paypal's inability to recover funds from recordsforall's account is separate and apart from their obligation to "insure" funds stolen in fraud. Their buyer protection program statement (on their site though not readily upfront) as of January 17, 2007 listed the qualifications for a transaction that would be covered. It is all geared into the status of the seller AT THE TIME THE AUCTION WAS LISTED and is based on the seller's feedback rating and certain other quantitative stuff. If buyer protection was available on recordsforall's items his auctions listings would say so -- and they did. Not a lot of wiggle room here for paypal.

I knew Diego Padovese was going to send me a package o' crap in order to show paypal a mailing receipt as proof that he sent me the LPs. I, for one, had the package sent to my law firm, had the delivery witnessed and then videotaped the package being opened to reveal, in my case, a motown 45 rpm. I've offered the videotape to paypal, but they have not been interested thus far. Oh well. I intend to stay on paypal by all means available to make sure they honor the insurance program they have set up and on which they market their services. I've never seen a more easily provable case of fraud -- so if they aren't going to pay on these auctions, not sure when they will.

In the meantime, I am watching the following auction with keen interests. Some eerie similarities between recordsforall's auction and this one -- recent Ebay membership, feedback built up on 45 rpm sales, sudden change from paypal payment accepted to international money orders only, no hisotry of blue notes to sudden availability of high-end, top quality stuff, etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEE-MORGAN-Lee-Way-LP-...1QQcmdZViewItem

In the meantime, thanks to the long standing members of this site. I've learned a ton from reading through the posts. Hope to be a participant going forward.

B

[porcy62]

It seems that on-line frauds have reached the records collectors's land. After phoney M.A. of phoney University, Fake Rolex, Junk stocks and bonds and tons of Viagra.

[peebles]

In the meantime, I am watching the following auction with keen interests. Some eerie similarities between recordsforall's auction and this one -- recent Ebay membership, feedback built up on 45 rpm sales, sudden change from paypal payment accepted to international money orders only, no hisotry of blue notes to sudden availability of high-end, top quality stuff, etc.

Unreal. Assuming it's a scam, this guy has learned well.

1) include some pictures

2) demand cash or money order payment

3) keep the "feedback floater" auctions running so the good feedback never stops!

From the "completed items" it looks like roughly $30K records sold in the last five days -- the highest prices (>$1000) achieved on vanity classical items. No feedback on any of those purchases yet. Over 1400 items up for sale (and all but a tiny handful of those are buy-it-now cheapos).

So if you're a "winner" on one of those auctions, what sort of "showing" do you ask of this seller before you blow the whistle, a la jazzguy?

[Guest donald petersen]

agge, at least these people are talking MUSIC and not politics, etc. let them be.

vinyl is its own world.

[michel1969]

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEE-MORGAN-Lee-Way-LP-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Incidentally, the winning bidder is a well known esnipe artist from the rising sun country. He usually spents tons of $$$$ on ebay each week. He was probably one of the heaviest bidder of recordsforall.... Did you hear from him in action against Moneyfornothing ? Probably not. Did he left negative ? Probably not. Our scam artist would not exist without those naive and compulsive Japanese millionaires and their Ebay Blue Note frenzy.

[K1969]

Diego's now notched notched up 29 negs and dipped below 96% pos feedback

feedbackforall

Edited February 7, 2007 by K1969

[Sneakywax]

Diego's now notched notched up 29 negs and dipped below 96% pos feedback

feedbackforall

And yet, there he remains, an Ebay member, despite the high negative total and the complaints of numerous buyers to Ebay.

[porcy62]

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEE-MORGAN-Lee-Way-LP-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Incidentally, the winning bidder is a well known esnipe artist from the rising sun country. He usually spents tons of $$$$ on ebay each week. He was probably one of the heaviest bidder of recordsforall.... Did you hear from him in action against Moneyfornothing ? Probably not. Did he left negative ? Probably not. Our scam artist would not exist without those naive and compulsive Japanese millionaires and their Ebay Blue Note frenzy.

If I would be a japanese millionaire robbered by an ebay member, I would rent four yakuza's guys to get my money back directly from him, or sent my lawyers directly to ebay headquarters in US. Or maybe, a real millionaire would make an estimate of wich option would be the cheapest for him: lost the money, Yakuza or Lawyers. That's why I am not a millionaire.

Edited February 6, 2007 by porcy62

[jazzguy43]

hmmmm, Diego is climbing quick on the negs..take a look at recordsofsound!! This arshole ripped me for $210...PAYPAL REFUNDED ME!!!! Gang, stay on PAYPAL call them up , tremind them of the buyer protection...ask to speak to a supervisor! Stay on it!!!

[K1969]

And yet, there he remains, an Ebay member, despite the high negative total and the complaints of numerous buyers to Ebay.

Finally the inevitable - he's no longer a registered ebay member: refundsforall

I'd like to think that he was pushed rather than jumped since he's probably got several other ebay ID's - hopefully ebay will root them out too. 30 negs from a single auction. Maybe it's a record? Could and should've been higher though. I guess this means that noone else can add feedback. Pity. I'll miss seeing the nails being driven in day by day....

Pay pal today confirmed that they'll refund me in due course. Jazzguy is right to urge sticking with them. The more items you "won" the longer the bureaucracy takes until you're refunded. I "won" three items so I'll have to wait up to 60 days from the time my dispute entered the review phase. I'm very confident we'll see our $ back.

I've learnt two things from this fiasco:

1. Don't rely on the % positive feedback ratio - check to see if previous auctions are consistent with the current one, check the ebay registration date, insist on scans, don't bid on private auctions etc.

2. If it's a big $ purchase, only bid if it's got pay pal buyer protection

Oh and a third thing, don't trust anyone who calls you "mate" in their emails.

Edited February 7, 2007 by K1969

[porcy62]

Oh and a third thing, don't trust anyone who calls you "mate" in their emails.

All right Bro.

Edited February 7, 2007 by porcy62

[michel1969]

Amazing? Don't know ...

Record collectors do die one day too, record collections tend to come up for sale here and there and every now and then, and some sellers don't let them trickle onto the market but rather get rid of them in one go.

Seems to be the case both with the Jazz collection and the Garage/Psychedelic record collections that's come up here.

Not a bad move on the part of the seller, by the way, to let all the records finish almost at the same time. Last-minute snipers will have a hard time sniping all that many records one after another (like they might be able to do if the auctions end at 3, 4 or 5-minute intervals, for example). So they will have to bid a bit earlier, giving others a chance to raise the bids.

And let it be said once more:

What this seller offers DEFINITELY is NOT an "essential Jazz collection". This is just a representative collection of hard bop-based 50s/60s Jazz records. Nice enough anyway but remember Hard Bop is just ONE of MANY facets of Jazz and certainly would not cover the entire range of styles that Jazz has to offer (even if to a lot of self-proclaimed "Jazz" fans Hard Bop is the beginning and end of it all)

I for one would have been much more impressed if this particular lot had ALSO included a representative selection of "essential" records e.g. by Bob Cooper, Shorty Rogers, Art Pepper, Bud Shank, Lighthouse All Stars, etc. (not to mention the great MASTERS of Swing and Mainstream) - see? :D

Agree with that... same old hysteria, with same esnipers, same music, same records seen a hundred times, (all are very rare, the occansion of a lifetime etc etc etc...) same japaneses / taiwanese / coreans etc... no description of the records, no picture, unpolite answers to questions '"yes mate" "nope mate !". The worst in Ebay auction is here.

Sorry for quoting me, but one more thing you can do before bidding is asking for my advice..

[peebles]

And yet, there he remains, an Ebay member, despite the high negative total and the complaints of numerous buyers to Ebay.

Finally the inevitable - he's no longer a registered ebay member: refundsforall

Rock on. I still have my negative feedback scar which I'll wear as a badge of honor/shame.

Meanwhile, that Canadian sleezebag is starting to get slammed:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...P:feedback:2:us

[K1969]

Meanwhile, that Canadian sleezebag is starting to get slammed:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...P:feedback:2:us

Buyers are protesting that he refused pay pal after the auctions were closed. Comments like "advertised paypal but wont accept it,i'm not sending £130 without it. !!!!" and " the seller claimed to accept paypal 1st, but renege on it after i won! INCREDIBLE"

I wonder if Diego's given him some friendly advice - a kind of scammers cooperative?

Edited February 7, 2007 by K1969

[peebles]

Buyers are protesting that he refused pay pal after the auctions were closed.

Yup. And scammer 6627Michel is returning the favor by leaving negative feedback for them. And we know what will happen: 6627Michel signed up on Nov 22, 2006. Will 6627Michel be suspended before February 22? Highly unlikely. If he is suspended before Feb. 22, the negative feedback he left will be automatically removed. If not (almost certainly the case), it's permanent.

Isn't eBay wonderful?