JSngry Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Thanks for that clarification, Jim. Bob Dylan's music was so much a part of my growing up that I couldn't ever think of trying to give his art an objective evaluation. I just know that much of his music is very close to me and always will be. All I know is that I've applied "Ballad Of A Thin Man" to both Life and to Jerry Jones's Cowboys early decline with equally satisfying profundity. If that ain't a classic/standard, i don't know what is, but if it ain't also the art of saying something that you can make anything out of it that you need, I don't what is, and if that ain't expert, artful manipulation in the creation of a legend, I don't what is, and if THAT ain't some people just roil with it, I don't know what is. Or as the slaying goes, it is what it is, so YOU make the call, right? So for me, pop culture, can't live without it, can live without it, no matter where it goes, it finds you., so be prepared to enjoy responsibly, and always cut those coupons, even if you don't use them most of the time. Gotta keep the mindset (set) even after you lose the mind, no points deducted unless otherwise so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Thanks for that clarification, Jim. Bob Dylan's music was so much a part of my growing up that I couldn't ever think of trying to give his art an objective evaluation. I just know that much of his music is very close to me and always will be. All I know is that I've applied "Ballad Of A Thin Man" to both Life and to Jerry Jones's Cowboys early decline with equally satisfying profundity. Good song, good album-- vastly better than blithering doggerel dogshit like "Blood On The Tracks," which middlebrows extol because they figure-- not entirely incorrectly-- that if they apply themselves, they too can vomit forth that many lyrics-- no quality control. It also shows up what crap Dylan's current vocals are, his current standards drivel most definitely included. Side Q: did you read & if so, have an opinion on Joe Nick Patoski's Cowboys book from a couple years ago? Speaking of Sinatra-- *** LK, more on Lenny the man, did you read DeLillo "Underworld" & if not, if so, go back to section five, "Better Thingds For Better Living Through Chemistry" which has five uncanny Lenny Bruce routines set during the week of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Highly highly recommended whatever one's past feelings might be DeLillo. I believe Fosse originally wanted Cliff Gorman for the movie but who's Cliff Gorman? The commentary track on the Criterion "All That Jazz" with the film's editor Alan Heim is exceptional. (Most Criterion discs are padded with this filler, this one isn't, not that Heim's insight's are 'necessary,' but they are illuminating.) Edited February 11, 2015 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 "I believe Fosse originally wanted Cliff Gorman for the movie but who's Cliff Gorman?" A much better choice than Hoffman, whose unshakably putz-like, "Please, like me" persona distorted everything. I'll look for "Underworld," which I've not read, Delillo not being for me I decided way back when. In fact, "Underworld" may have been the book that formed that decision. In any case, I'll look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mori Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 What a relief we can carry on listening to Highway 61 Revisited now it has received the papal blessing from Mom's Mobley. But Blood on the Tracks has to go, unless you want to risk being designated a middlebrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 fwiw, I'm about as middlebrow as they come, and I get nothing out of Blood On The Tracks, a whole lot out of Highway 61, and really am not bothered by any of all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Blood on the Tracks I consider a real masterpiece. But I really don't care what anyone else thinks about it, there are lots of angry dudes on the internet with opinions different than mine and that's cool, let 'em rant, I just wish they could be happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnblitweiler Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'm surprised Tom T. Hall is still alive, wouldn't be surprised if Dylan had no idea that Hall's wife died recently, think Hall was a comparatively limited songwriter but passable for his period 40-odd years ago, Dylan was right to despise "I Love." My friends who put on the U. of Chicago folk festival ca. 1970 told me Hall performed there drunk and berated the audience (who included a number of Vietnam vets) for being unpatriotic and wearing blue jeans. Only time I heard Dylan live was his hit-and-run song at the televising of the John Hammond tribute in the '70s. The lyrics of a lot of his '60s songs were clever, intelligent, look good on the printed page - I hope his later songs maintained that standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Blood on the Tracks I consider a real masterpiece. So do I. For some reason, I had mixed feelings about it when it first came out. I can't understand why now. There are some truly inspired songs on that album. Jerry Garcia thought so too, and continually played Simple Twist of Fate and Tangled Up in Blue for years. Edited February 12, 2015 by John L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Just read that part of "Underworld," Moms. Very impressive, both for DeLillo and Lenny. I'll probably have to revise my feeling about the former. But as strong and painful (if those are the right words) as the Missile Crisis Bruce routines DeLillo records are, I don't see why they should make me change my mind about Kael's view of who Bruce was (which is pretty much my own) or about the movie "Lenny" either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-blake Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Blood on the Tracks I consider a real masterpiece. I wholeheartedly agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Never been a huge fan of Dylan for whatever reason, but I also really like Blood on the Tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The only thing better than Blood on the Tracks is Blood on the Tracks with the original New York versions of some of the songs replacing the Minnesota versions. (I especially prefer the original version of Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts.) BTW I think I read that the next volume of the Bootleg Series may be devoted to BOTT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The only thing better than Blood on the Tracks is Blood on the Tracks with the original New York versions of some of the songs replacing the Minnesota versions. (I especially prefer the original version of Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts.) BTW I think I read that the next volume of the Bootleg Series may be devoted to BOTT. It's been a long time since I comnpared them, but my memory is that I prefered the remakes on all but one where I strongly prefered the original. FWIW, YMMV, etc. Interesting that Bob bothered to do that, he's generally one take or less.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The only thing better than Blood on the Tracks is Blood on the Tracks with the original New York versions of some of the songs replacing the Minnesota versions. (I especially prefer the original version of Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts.) BTW I think I read that the next volume of the Bootleg Series may be devoted to BOTT. It's been a long time since I comnpared them, but my memory is that I prefered the remakes on all but one where I strongly prefered the original. FWIW, YMMV, etc. Interesting that Bob bothered to do that, he's generally one take or less.... Supposedly he was visiting his brother who heard the original takes and thought they revealed too much about his marriage. Though that wouldn't account for all the remakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-blake Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 BTW I think I read that the next volume of the Bootleg Series may be devoted to BOTT. I read something about that possibility, as well. I'll be all over that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Blood on the Tracks I consider a real masterpiece. But I really don't care what anyone else thinks about it, there are lots of angry dudes on the internet with opinions different than mine and that's cool, let 'em rant, I just wish they could be happier. I am not a *huge* Dylan fan, but that is one of my favorite albums of all time, any genre. "You're A Big Girl Now" is just devastating. Not that you want that all the time from your pop music, but it does not get any better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Obviously I'm not going to argue what 'means' something to anyone but the idea that "Blood On The Tracks" has ANY 'emotional truth' or ANY 'literary value' (yuk yuk yuk) I-- and others-- can only ascribe to mass delusion. "Buckets of Rain" is a nice tune, John Renbourn covers it live along with Randy Weston "Little Niles." That middlebrow lit critics have gulled anyone-- including themselves-- that this shit "matters" just shows how little they cared for literature-- high and low-- to begin with. (Writer and editor types especially like "BOTR" because its achievement is obviously attainable; just keep throwing shit down, find a strophic tune that fits, don't worry about "editing" or concision or le mot juste or "Mo' Greens Please"... "BOTR" may or may not be a persuasive performance but that's a differnt story-- consult goodhearted Paul Williams.) Dylan is still dogshit; "funny" his "camp" found Bill Flanagan to pimp Bob's fucking nonsense & he TOTALLY avoided the Tom T. Hall question. (Pimps don't deserve boldface.) What's the matter Bill and Bob, even the semblance of historical accuracy doesn't fit your $$$ or ego mad bitterness & deception? Dixie Hall RIP, lest we forget the man some of ya'll admire-- http://www.tennessean.com/story/entertainment/music/2015/01/17/dixie-hall-prolific-bluegrass-songwriter-dies/21914181/ And yet-- I'll grant ya'll "Watchtower" (won't give it to you, that's for Prince & Larry Graham doorknockers to do) & "Buckets of Rain"-- with Robin Williamson!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBU9pEQwtQE Edited February 16, 2015 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinuta Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 And there's me thinking Blood On The Tracks was great. Seems I've been wrong all along. You live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mori Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Robin Williamson loves Dylan. And Dylan appreciated ISB's October Song back in the mid-60s. Williamson's opinion of Tom T. Hall is not known. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DvSagxL57Q Edited February 16, 2015 by Mori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 And there's me thinking Blood On The Tracks was great. Seems I've been wrong all along. You live and learn. Mostly you learn there are angry men on the internet that will tear anything down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aparxa Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 From the Swiss comics artist Zep.Personal favorites include: The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan/Highway 61 Revisited/Blonde on Blonde/Blood on the Tracks/Some live concerts from 1978 and 1986/Time Out of Mind/Love and Theft/Bootleg Series 6&7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 "A lot of people don't know this, but the blues, which is an American music, is not what you think it is. It's a combination of Arabic violins and Strauss waltzes working it out. But it's true." What exactly is he trying to get at here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) "A lot of people don't know this, but the blues, which is an American music, is not what you think it is. It's a combination of Arabic violins and Strauss waltzes working it out. But it's true." What exactly is he trying to get at here? It means he doesn't know WTF he's talking about; typical-- the idiot wind is within-- but there's likely some schmoe who'll annotate it instead of reading or re-reading George Washington Cable (who?) & knuckleheads will say... oooh, that's "America," that's "poetry" (sic.) Mark, for a few sides to that very interesting question of inventing the blues, I suggest you listen to this presentation the great & heavy collector, record producer & independent scholar Don Kent. It begins with Don mentioning a recent conversation he'd recently had with (not "Roll on") John J. Sullivan, whose Geechie Wiley piece many people rightly admired. http://www.eastriverstringband.com/radioshow/?p=1214 you can listen online, download an mp3 or (i think) get it free via itunes. Edited February 16, 2015 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Thought it was safe to return to this thread. Guess not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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