king ubu

Fresh Sound & Lone Hill Reissues Discussion

396 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, BillF said:

My impression is that Lonehill is just one of a whole stable of labels that Catalan entrepreneur Jordi Pujol operates. I see no sign that he's gone out of business.

 

Same impression here. I cannot quite figure out where the actual dividing line is between the Fresh Sound and Lone Hill reissue catalogs. I occasionally bought Lone Hill CDs where they filled a gap in the reissue world (e.g. Dick Twardzik or the second and third Dot LPs by Rusty Bryant). But I find that reissue policy of filling up a CD with PART of another LP a bit annoying. If I had wanted the contents of the "Silver Vibes" LP (on Columbia) by Lionel Hampton, for example, I would have had to buy two of their Hampton CDs that essentially are reissues of his two Audio Fidelity LPs (which I both have). Just like with some Fresh Sound reissues. Admittedly I couldn't think of another approach if playing time is not sufficient for 2 LPs on one CD, though, but it makes targeted buying difficult sometimes.
And looking at their pricing policy, is it really so that Fresh Sound is the "budget" line and Lone Hill the upmarket line now? (9.95 vs 14.95 EUR)

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Now I do not really have a problem with it. But how is this topic on Fresh Sound and Lone Hill Jazz allowed, and my Coltrane topic not? All the reissues of those Coltrane bootlegs were on the sub labels of Fresh Sound... Lone Hill Jazz, RLR, Definitive and Gambit. 

Dont get me wrong I would really like this topic to be open but I just don’t see any difference.

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I didn't mean Pujol, just the label Lonehill not being used any more.

4 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

And looking at their pricing policy, is it really so that Fresh Sound is the "budget" line and Lone Hill the upmarket line now? (9.95 vs 14.95 EUR)

That would indicate Fresh Sound / Blue Moon just distribute Lonehill or sell their CDs throught their webshop but do not run it.

There is a number of labels of that kind they do not sell, like Solar, Essential Jazz Classics, and others, we should not throw them into one pot just because they are European labels reissuing public domain material.

Edited by mikeweil

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The most recent Lonehill CDs that I can find date from 2012. 

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3 hours ago, mikeweil said:

I didn't mean Pujol, just the label Lonehill not being used any more.

That would indicate Fresh Sound / Blue Moon just distribute Lonehill or sell their CDs throught their webshop but do not run it.

There is a number of labels of that kind they do not sell, like Solar, Essential Jazz Classics, and others, we should not throw them into one pot just because they are European labels reissuing public domain material.

Actually I am not at all sure this "Pricing Policy" is as it seems to be. I have always considered Lone Hil to be a subsidiary of Fresh Sound so I am a bit puzzled that the Lone Hill reissues are more expensive than the Fresh Sound ones.

BTW, their "Cool 'n' Blue" label reissue catalog also looks like it has been around for a long time. I bought 2 of them about 20 years ago. This label does not look like new reissues in THIS field (78rpm era) are being added anymore either.

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From this interview:

JW: Is Fresh Sound affiliated with Lone Hill?
JP: Not at all. Fresh Sound is my label, and it’s based in Barcelona, Spain. It’s not affiliated with any other jazz label. Many people believe that all labels coming from Andorra or Spain are related to Fresh Sound. This is simply not true.

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Looks like there is an earlier thread on that one:

 

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Uh oh ... how time flies ... didn't recall it was on THAT one the P.D. question was discussed to and fro too.

I wonder if there have been any more recent interviews, after that 50-year, non-retroactive European copyright law came into effect in 2012.

Did any of the publications ever try to interview any of those who run other P.D. labels, I wonder?

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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From a post by Sonnymax in the previous thread:

"Pujol also asserts that "Many people believe that all labels coming from Andorra or Spain are related to FS. This is simply not true." So tell me then, what website advertises the Andorran labels' titles, as well as those from Fresh Sound? Answer: Blue Sounds, owned by Cristina Pujol Masdeu. And who distributes the physical product? Why, it's Absolute Distribution, whose parent company is Blue Moon Producciones Discograficas SL, a division of...drum roll, please...Fresh Sound Records."

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on the one hand, I find that very convincing and funny... on the other, Lonehill doesn't feel like the same label to me... can't possibly put this into the right words, but what I mean is that it doesn't feel plausible that the same person would invent Freshsound and then would introduce Lonehill as the clumsier sideline... you can say all you want about the ethical side of Freshsound, about vinyl rips etc, but I always get the impression that the person in charge knows at least as much about jazz as I do - I don't get that impression from Lonehill [and if you know much more than me, this test will not work for you]

 

regarding the topic of "selling it in Spain/EU is ok, but exporting to the US is not": Has the recurring question of "Doesn't the same apply to any reissues aimed at Japan?" ever been clarified...?

Edited by Niko

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2 hours ago, Niko said:

regarding the topic of "selling it in Spain/EU is ok, but exporting to the US is not": Has the recurring question of "Doesn't the same apply to any reissues aimed at Japan?" ever been clarified...?

Good question. I've been wondering about this at the very latest since I bought a copy of the Hank D'Amico "Holiday with Hank" Japanese CD reissue (CDSOL-6077) from a Japanese eBay seller a couple of years ago and upon receiving the item found that the small print on the back page read "Not for sale outside of Japan". No doubt this statement is there for a reason. But somehow discussion of this aspect never evolved very far here ... I wonder why ... ;)

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2 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

...since I bought a copy of the Hank D'Amico "Holiday with Hank" Japanese CD reissue (CDSOL-6077) from a Japanese eBay seller a couple of years ago and upon receiving the item found that the small print on the back page read "Not for sale outside of Japan". No doubt this statement is there for a reason. But somehow discussion of this aspect never evolved very far here ... I wonder why ... ;)

Maybe not just because Japan is a lot more expensive nut to crack, but also because, hey, look at them, they're totally up front about "we (that means both of you, not just them) shouldn't be doing this, but oh well, we're both doing it anyway! HUZZAH!!!!". No tricks, no gimmicks, no demeaning presumptions of a facade, just honesty.

Kudos to people with the character to neither seek nor provide weak-ass justificational rationalizations! :tup

It's like when you used to go into the record stores and buy prom copies of shit that was clearly marked PROMOTIONAL USE ONLY - NOT FOR SALE and yet, there it was for sale, and not just for sale, but now, SOLD!

Gee!

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when I walk into a record store now (not your favorite little thrift store but the legit ones), first thing I see are those "18 albums on 3 discs Hank Mobley" things, and my first reaction is that 1) you guys should know better and 2) why am I even here and 3) nobody needs legit record stored anymore... independently of that, where I grew up there's no copyright on 1950s recordings anymore, and that doesn't sound unreasonable to me... I'm mostly buying used LPs these days [nobody but the seller earns] and I've found my way of rationalizing "if I'd known about the reissue that costs 3 times as much, I might have reconsidered"... then again, most of the time there actually is no reissue.. just playing an exception, Jiggs Whigham - Hope [excellent]

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On 17/01/2007 at 3:09 PM, king ubu said:

But then, Freshsound has released a bunch of very nice sets, of late, with good documentation, and with what I think is new: exact info about original releases

Yes, that's true: they're changing their policy of being as obscure as possible about sources, to giving more detailed information and even repros of the original covers (see the Lucky Thompson set of parisian Small Group Sessions, which won a French reissue project prize) as of lately.

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1 hour ago, Bluesnik said:

Yes, that's true: they're changing their policy of being as obscure as possible about sources, to giving more detailed information and even repros of the original covers (see the Lucky Thompson set of parisian Small Group Sessions, which won a French reissue project prize) as of lately.

Leaving the fact aside that what King Ubu wrote was 11 (ELEVEN) years ago, it really isn't so that they "are changing" their policy only now. Fresh Sound have been fairly straightforward about discographical details for a very long time. At least on most of those I picked up. Checking a few CDs at random I bought, those from the period that King Ubu alludes to (e.g. Joe Holiday, FSR 439, or The Mitchells & The Joneses, FSR 444, both from 2007) have full session details and thumbnail facsimiles of the original covers. Eleven years ago. Not to mention the NOCTURNE box set from as long ago as 1998 (NR3CD-101) which is a standout. And honestly, considering what other (LOTS of other, including so-called "legit") labels do (or rather, don't do), I cannot really fault them even for their earlier reissues (e.g. Lorraine Geller, FSR 195, from the 90s) that give full session details but do not indicate the original LP titles and catalog numbers. Lots of other labels, including recirculated stuff by the majors, did worse. Not all reissuers are Mosaic, not by a very, very, very long shot. So IMO Fresh Sound at any rate did give "decent" info. ;)

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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The Nocturne box doesn't count as it was legit to begin with ... and of course you have a point, even official release sometimes are produced by cheats ;) 

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2 hours ago, king ubu said:

The Nocturne box doesn't count as it was legit to begin with ... and of course you have a point, even official release sometimes are produced by cheats ;) 

This debate is at the point of running in circles - again. You know the non-retroactive European PD laws as well as I do. And they make most of the Fresh Sound CD reissues (i.e. pre-1962 recording and release dates of the orignal material) totaly "legit" by European PD laws and for European buyers.

If anyone wants to complain about substandard identification of source material, please look at the oft-touted Proper boxes. Their credits as given on many V.A. box sets and CD sleeves are just laughable - and utterly misleading. Having to leaf through the booklet to find out at last which is which is not the way to do it if you're being serious about your stuff.

 

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Those Proper boxes are fucking clownshows. Who "touts" them? I mean, they're good cheap mixtapes, but as serious library additions, HA!

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9 hours ago, JSngry said:

Those Proper boxes are fucking clownshows. Who "touts" them? I mean, they're good cheap mixtapes, but as serious library additions, HA!

See for yourselves, and note the statement on the front page about handling international orders ..... https://www.propermusic.com/

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On 17/02/2018 at 0:12 AM, JSngry said:

Those Proper boxes are fucking clownshows. Who "touts" them? I mean, they're good cheap mixtapes, but as serious library additions, HA!

I really dislike Proper boxes. Discographical information is vague and misleading. Sessions incomplete and poor liner notes. Oh  and even if legal I consider them dodgy. 

I generally avoid these PD labels. 

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