JSngry Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Continuum/continua... I believe that there's at least several continua - the stylistic, the socio-cultural, the "spiritual" (as in what kind of spirit you are, although if you want to go churchy with it, you can), probably more. For the longest time, "jazz" naturally, as a matter of evolution, hosted a convergence of those three continua, and hosted it naturally, graciously, and spledidly. But if a continuum does indeed by definition represent continuity, does that also not imply motion? For anything to remain alive, does it not have to be in motion at some level? I think we're at a point in our evolution where the variuos continua that once co-existed in one place are beginning to go there own seperate ways, slowly, gradually, but inextricably, Of course there will still be intersecting, temporary as well as permanent, but "jazz" as it came to be and how it came to thrive was the product of a massive set of circumstances that either don't exist any more, or have changed in some pretty fundamental ways. The various continua were all there at the same place and the same time for the same reason. It's not like that any more, and I don't think it's anything to get too weirded out about. As noted above, plenty of young people have the spirit, but the socio-cultural element has changed, and the stylistic continua might no longer be "relevant" to them getting done what it is they feel they need to be done. Yet the stylistic remains firmly in place. You can go to damn near any university and study it to death, and you got plenty of people who are most proficient practitioneers of it, some of whom actually bring a little something special to it. But the "jazz style" has become that - a style. Nothing wrong with that per se, but if you're young and looking for a true voice of your own, a "style" may not be what you're looking for, even if it is what you end up with. Shit's funny that way sometimes... To bring Wynton back into it (sorry), I thnk the biggest lie that he tried to perpetrate was that the stylistic and the spiritual continua had to continue to coexist in a state of mutual bondage. That's just so wrong in so many ways, and I'll leave it at that. But we find ourselves now in a place where old "friends" are beginning to go their own ways here and there, and rather than wishing them well, offering moral support, and just in general keeping the love, a lot of folks feel a sense of betrayal and abandonment, like a parent who gets pissed when their kid doesn't do what they think they should do with their life and cuts them out of their life (and looking at the average age of the average jazz fan, this is probably very much to the point!), or like a clinging spouse who won't tolerate the notion of you so much as even thinking about spending one second away from them. Where's the love there, and what good can possibly come of it? Like I said earlier, just let people be who they are. If the stylistic continuum doesn't go with them in full, or even in part, fine. If the spiritual continuum stays with them, hey, it's all good in the end afaic. And if the stylistic continuum loses the spiritual one, well, ok. It still means something to somebody, right? Let them have it. I don't think we have to get that drastic about it at this jucncture, but the last 25 or so years in too much of hjazz have not been lived in the spirit of love and community and encouragement of going wherever it is you need to go. They've been lived in the spirit of smothering, clinging obsessiveness. And how many young people get into that? Us Boomers and near-Boomers ain't kids any more. Some of us are damn near old, and most all of us are closer to our deaths than we are to our births. If we have any love of life left in us at all, we damn well better start recognizing that noblest legacy we can leave our children is not fucking them up and/or over by not letting them be who they are in the best, fullest way they can be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 (edited) Braxton's son is Tyondai Braxton, known to his friends as Ty. Google him under Tyondai Braxton and there are lots of hits. Here's one article about him: http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feat...Tyondai_Braxton And here's a picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kittenclaw/54.../in/set-394835/ Edited January 23, 2007 by Larry Kart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted January 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 (Olu Dara's son, Marion Brown's son (etc.) are all engaged--creatively--in other timely musical pursuits). that has a lot to do with the fact that hip hop-- especially the under ground stuff has a similiar political message that the avantgeniuses of the 70's had. AACM- Great Black Music..... No one in todays younger generations of the avant side is really stepping up to speak on issues of opressed peoples. Atleast not yet. I think this music has lost its social message because its so hard to get by now a days as an artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Look (directed to Frankie), your early posts looked like "spam" to me. If you have no connection to the artist, I send my sincere apology. I have no interest in "killing the spirit" of any sincere artist. I was just bothered by the tone. If I am wrong, SORRY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Sage words again, JS, and it's important to be reminded in these conversations. I think it's crucial to point out that, at this historical juncture, education should not act as a substitute for self-discovery, as my finest and wisest have taught me... On what frankie said--I don't think that's true. I've felt a strong sense of political consciousness about the younger "free" players, although it is often articulated in diverse ways. I'll throw a name out there just so we have one--Jeff Parker. There are many more. Again, I'm not sure that it's more than a moot point to prescribe to the new generation habits and mores, although teaching history is another thing altogether, and examining the causes (always a scholarly purusit) is another. If the whole of the new generation is as astute as a lot of the avant kids--and lord knows that Tyondai is wearing sweaters like his dad does--then so much the better for "the spirit", if not these sounds were so accustomed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 http://www.flickr.com/photos/kittenclaw/54.../in/set-394835/ On the Tyondai Braxton link above, there's an MP3 file that can be listened to. Didn't get through all of it, but on first encounter it sounds like some seriously hairy stuff. Good for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Sage words again, JS, and it's important to be reminded in these conversations. I think it's crucial to point out that, at this historical juncture, education should not act as a substitute for self-discovery, as my finest and wisest have taught me... Yeah, but some of us (myself included) could use a LOT more education... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 True education and self-discovery go hand-in-hand. It's indoctrination that fucks things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Twizzle Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 True education and self-discovery go hand-in-hand. It's indoctrination that fucks things up. Hey I saw that on a fortune cookie last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 It's how I pay the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted January 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Look (directed to Frankie), your early posts looked like "spam" to me. If you have no connection to the artist, I send my sincere apology. I have no interest in "killing the spirit" of any sincere artist. I was just bothered by the tone. If I am wrong, SORRY. I'm not connected to Matana Roberts in any way;except in just probably being too much of an overzealous goofy fan who has seen her perform many many times now. You might however want to direct your apology not so much towards me, but directly to Matana herself as I contacted her through her website and asked her if she would consider commenting on this forum. She apparently had already been made aware of the forum by a couple of other folks and has declined my encouragement to chime in as far as I can tell. She said that she found our debate a little too "crazy" as to garner a decent response. I'll try to prod her to see your apology here. In the meantime, without her permssion mind you, ( sorry matana) here is a cut and paste of the email she sent me when I asked her directly about her ideas on her visual representation in jazz music: "...as far as my clothing appearance is concerned : i like 2 express my music in visual form and this changes 4 each particular situation. It is part of the music 2 me.( The outfit in question by the way is not a ballerina outfit-- The skirt is made by one of my favorite local designers and the shirt i made myself, unfortunately the way this photo was taken it gives a different impression.) i am not in2 costuming-- costuming is 4 October 31st. i am in2 artistic evolution through style/ avant design/couture fashion/ pushing of stylistic boundaries/ turning gender based stylistic pop cultural stereotypes references completely on thier head ( i have a lot of fun with this--as evidenced in that silly photo on the forum site, that was taken without my knowlege by the way) and in some recent cases the idea of art as dress and dress as ritual of testification. i am also very interested in the way non american cultures use music combined with dress as a way 2 enhance spiritual celebration. And finally at this time in my artistic process I am in2 the idea of dress as a way 2 sometimes channel and honor those folks whose blood, sweat and tears I stand on so that i may be allowed to express myself in whatever way that i choose. i'm messing around with a history of visual black style and aesthetics that personally 4 me traveled from Africa to native America by way of France, Spain, Ireland and England--particulary in relation 2 the jazz art form, that i don't expect 4 many folks 2 understand, but that in many ways is part of my blood familial legacy-- my grandmother who grew up in the south in the 20's and 30's said it best " well we couldn't look like the honkies, but at least we could dress better than 'em". Real freedom was seen through education and appearance as a way 2 show strength, integrity, and power as well as just great style. This is a tradition that i feel has gotten lost in the disgusting over commercialization of African American style, but thats a whole other commentary entirely. Regardless I work hard 2 comment musically and visually on my familial legacy, and the positive attributes that this has provided me every time i step on a stage anywhere in the world. In my dress for performances I'm honestly just trying to celebrate my life's freedoms and lives past that made those freedoms possible through my art." There you have it folks. Onwards! Thanks for the apology, no hard feelings on my end. FHS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted January 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 [and an extrapolation of the seedier parts of what used to be the hip-hop subculutre, amplified themselves into something grotesque). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 http://www.flickr.com/photos/kittenclaw/54.../in/set-394835/ On the Tyondai Braxton link above, there's an MP3 file that can be listened to. Didn't get through all of it, but on first encounter it sounds like some seriously hairy stuff. Good for him. His website actually has a couple of samples--the first one a pretty apocalyptic wall-of-sound affair, the second a jangly, guitar-laden sound collage. It's interesting stuff for what it is, and very interesting coming from a second generation avant musician who has approached progressive material from a different angle altogether. Perhaps it's for folks like us to discuss, as only the wikipedia entry seems to mention who his dad is (although the resemblance is strong enough, shirts and all)... those are family dynamics, though, and no business of mine (though I'd love to hear dad/son collaborate on something--seems like they'd fit together, granted some of A. Braxton's recent interests). Again, JS finds a way of articulating the intended sentiment (so consider me a fan of fortune cookie logic). On clifford's note--for the folks who are really uneducated, I'd like to consider just how much energy people want to put in in the first place (which of course is another serious concern in this field...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 [and an extrapolation of the seedier parts of what used to be the hip-hop subculutre, amplified themselves into something grotesque). There still is a hip hop subculture that is alive and well. My son is a big fan of a group called dead prez, another group called Mr. Lif, and another called sa-rah they don't get much radio play because they are considered too radical in many commercial circles. Something is still alive out there I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted January 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Tyondai Braxton is pretty special. He is definitely Anthony's kid, but seems not interested in flaunting that link. which is fine. He's something all on his own. I'd highly suggest you catch him any chance you get. Same goes for Jeff Parker. I was just listening to one of his last releases "Like Coping" earlier today. he's a fine writer and thinker from the posts I've seen on his myspace page www.myspace.com/peffjarker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 So you've seen Tyondai live? After the samples, I'm pretty interested... And, so long as we're on the 2nd generation topic--what are y'all's thoughts on Djinji Brown? Heard some of his stuff--colorful, and subtle in its own way (Brown family subtlety? Or am I just hearing things?...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted January 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 So you've seen Tyondai live? After the samples, I'm pretty interested... I have another son who was in a band that shared a bill with a group that tyondai was a part of. It was a bit chaotic, but from what i remebered i made a mental note to try to check out more of him, though I did not know his last name at that time. I was also the only balding over 55+ person in the room that night if I recall correctly. Nothing like a show like this to make u feel old as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 On clifford's note--for the folks who are really uneducated, I'd like to consider just how much energy people want to put in in the first place (which of course is another serious concern in this field...). Sorry - that was somewhat off-the-cuff. I was referring to academic, or at least directed cultural study. Not bandstand-learning, necessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 ...knowing full-well that bandstand-learning and life-learning are hugely important to one's growth. Oh, never mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabshakeh Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 It's been a while since the last Coin Coin came out, and we're only a quarter of the way through the project. Has anyone heard anything about where the project is going? Has Roberts just gotten cold on the idea or irritated with the publicity it has been getting or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 Here's some news about Matana https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/International-Contemporary-Ensemble-Announces-New-Ensemble-Members-20210923 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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