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IT IS THE MOST PRETENTIOUS CATALOG EVER. THE FRONT COVER IS BRIGHT WHITE, WITH A BLACK AND WHITE PIC OF A SIDEWALK AND SOME KIDS FEET. THEN, ON THE INSIDE, IT LISTS IN ABC ORDER, THE MOST OBNOXIOUS JAZZ ALBUMS EVER RECORDED IN THE HISTORY OF JAZZ. THEN THERE ARE SOME MORE PHOTOS, INCLUDING A VERY INSPIRING BLACK AND WHITE PHOTO OF A TREE.

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Sounds like you are testiculating (talkin' bollocks laddie!)about a record label that bring joy to me at least. As for any catalogue they have a history of prducing some lovely catalogues in the past. If they ain't of any interest to you-who cares?

As for whether they are pretentious or not that I am afraid is in the eye of the beholder

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well me and brownie both know the truth and thats good enough for me since me and him are 2 of the most informed participatens here anyway- lol. ECM is like a giant black hole in the universe of jazz

Well that makes all the difference. Think its way past your bed time over there anyway!

By the way black hole are unexplored and need to be examined in order to understand them however at this present time it appears as if you have already disappeared up into a dark hole of some variety :P

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Duh.

It's the music, not the label, the sound, the catalog or whatever.

ECM has had some tremendous releases as well as some real clunkers. Like every label.

And if I look at some of the labels like Verve with their asinine release policy (do they actually have one aside from keeping all the good stuff under lock and key [or putting it online ... yuck] and remixing it into some volatile slime), I'm glad that ECM is around.

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IT IS THE MOST PRETENTIOUS CATALOG EVER. THE FRONT COVER IS BRIGHT WHITE, WITH A BLACK AND WHITE PIC OF A SIDEWALK AND SOME KIDS FEET. THEN, ON THE INSIDE, IT LISTS IN ABC ORDER, THE MOST OBNOXIOUS JAZZ ALBUMS EVER RECORDED IN THE HISTORY OF JAZZ. THEN THERE ARE SOME MORE PHOTOS, INCLUDING A VERY INSPIRING BLACK AND WHITE PHOTO OF A TREE.

Run this one by me again please.

So was Reid Miles a bit on the pretentious side? You know those arty covers. Or Francis Wolf with his black & white shots of Mogie or PC?

Or Hermann Leonard?

And as for alphabetical listings...well fuck those Romans....snooty bastards.

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Duh.

It's the music, not the label, the sound, the catalog or whatever.

ECM has had some tremendous releases as well as some real clunkers. Like every label.

And if I look at some of the labels like Verve with their asinine release policy (do they actually have one aside from keeping all the good stuff under lock and key [or putting it online ... yuck] and remixing it into some volatile slime), I'm glad that ECM is around.

My thought.

And their covers are surely better then most of todays new jazz realases, speaking about aesthetic meaning.

But from Chewy's tone I understand that it's some sort of personal issue between him and Manfred Eichler. The best thing for all the members here would be assisting at the duel that will be held somewhere between Northern North America and Munich. I think that Manfred has the right to chose the weapons. About Brownie I am sure that he could find a nice place around Paris, close to some convents, like in the old times of Alexandre Dumas.

Edited by porcy62
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Seems that chewy and I hit a raw nerve!

I might reconsider my opinion on ECM when they release something in this vein

B0002IQ9RS.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

:g

I'm always amazed about how old (-fashioned) some of you guys are.

:g:g:g

I cannot see the difference between home cookin and this: :blink:

liek peas in a pod :w

Edited by andybleaden
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Seems that chewy and I hit a raw nerve!

I might reconsider my opinion on ECM when they release something in this vein

B0002IQ9RS.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

:g

You have to admit that for your cholesterol ECM is a huge improvement.

:D

To put porcy62 mind at ease, I live a few meters away from the place that was once the Clos des Bernardins convent now being renovated ;)

200601250349-1.jpg

That would be perfect.

Don't forget to advise Porthos, Aramis and Athos.

Because the pretentious Cardinal Manfred Eichler de Richelieu will bring all his guards with him (and all these boring musicians Like Jarrett, Garbarek Holland and Wheeler). The coward!

See you there at six o'clock in the morning.

Your faithfull friend

d'Artagnan

:g

Edited by porcy62
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Q: how come most black dudes (DeJohnnette & AEOC, then Roscoe excepted) only make one or two sides for Manfred?

A rhetorical question, perhaps, which deserves an illustrative answer: George Adams was on record as very much not liking his ECM experience, from the sessions to the final product. He felt he was being asked to serve Eicher's vision, not his own.

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I'm very fond of most 70's ECMs, but from the mid-80s on - and that's over twenty years now! <_< - there hasn't been much to my taste besides the Jarretts and Lloyds et al. that Clem dislikes. There's most definitely an "Eicher sound" of the sort that George Adams might despise - and it's a sound that I'm growing increasingly away from as well. But I can't fault them on their art direction. Some of it's weird, yeah, but it does give the label a style of its own.

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Guest youmustbe

Well it's Manfred's money! He had the 'European' sound...it worked...it 'sold'...he's a genius...I don't like any of it except the Keith, but then Keith is Keith....Manfred was never interested in copying Rudy's BN sound.

As for George Adams, may he rest in peace, I used to book him..terrific sax player, funny guy and sometimes on point, like when we were in Japan in March 91 and his comments about the Iraq war...but I would not have taken his comments about Manfred too seriously...I mean a guy that you had to break down his door, get him to stop free basing and hustle him to the airport to catch a plane to go on a tour!!! I mean he did kill a man down in Georgia, or wherever it was!!! Woulda fit right in with Gangsta Rap!!!

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I'm very fond of most 70's ECMs, but from the mid-80s on - and that's over twenty years now! <_< - there hasn't been much to my taste besides the Jarretts and Lloyds et al. that Clem dislikes. There's most definitely an "Eicher sound" of the sort that George Adams might despise - and it's a sound that I'm growing increasingly away from as well. But I can't fault them on their art direction. Some of it's weird, yeah, but it does give the label a style of its own.

One could say the same about BN: 'RVG sound', Wolff's art cover, ecc. And what the fact of those countless sessions of hard bop, does music history really need 50 sessions of Art Blakey or 50 sessions of Lee Morgan or 50 sessions of Mobley?

CLEM's musical opinions and taste are unquestionable for his asserteveness, so I don't even try to do it.

About his question on black dudes, my answear is: Look at world's map. It's really bizarre that young european white players recorded for a young european producer in a european studio back in seventies. Their most obvious choice would have been to give a call to Chuck and ask for the money for a ticket to US.

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Guest the mommy

chewe-i mentioned this in another thread, but i mean ECM is aging. it is getting to be an older label and the musicians who stuck around are getting older. do you find your grandparents exciting? or are they sort of dull and boring? ECM is like your grandparents. it used to be cool and interesting and sometimes fun but now it is old and just wants to relax and rest. it knows what it likes and it is going to do it. so give it a break. what if hank mobley were still alive? how crappy would his albums be? they would probably be pretty dull, don't you think?

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chewe-i mentioned this in another thread, but i mean ECM is aging. it is getting to be an older label and the musicians who stuck around are getting older. do you find your grandparents exciting? or are they sort of dull and boring? ECM is like your grandparents. it used to be cool and interesting and sometimes fun but now it is old and just wants to relax and rest. it knows what it likes and it is going to do it. so give it a break. what if hank mobley were still alive? how crappy would his albums be? they would probably be pretty dull, don't you think?

Completely agree. With some exceptions.

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Guest youmustbe

Manfred came up with 'Nordic Smooth Jazz'...It worked....but he also put Steve Reich on the map with Music For 18 Musicians a/o...Give him all the Props, even if, like me, you don't like most of the stuff.

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