Steve Lehman?

[frankie]

I caught a show of his a few months back. very serious music. Seems very studious. Any thoughts?

[JSngry]

I've heard a few albums. Serious player in all regards, although not in the "open" vibe I'm looking for/feeling these days. But that's not his problem.

Yeah, the cat can play and should be heard. Recommended.

[clifford_thornton]

There was one on Clean Feed I thought decent... saw him with Dave Burrell and William Hooker a couple of years ago and was impressed.

[relyles]

I really enjoyed his Fresh Sound New Talent release - I think it is called Artificial Light. He is also on the Anthony Braxton CIMP recording featuring Andrew Hill tunes. He can play.

[jlhoots]

He's also really nice on Ophiuchus Butterfly , a Liberty Ellman CD on Pi.

[ep1str0phy]

He's excellent on that Braxton does Hill album on CIMP. He's a terrifically fluid player with just the right thing of angular mania (ala Braxton himself).

[JSngry]

I'm enjoying this one, a trio of Lehman, Vijay Iyler, & Elliot Humberto Kavee on Pi.

[Leeway]

A feel about Lehman the same way I feel about Vijay Iyer, a little too theoretical and stiff for my taste.

[.:.impossible]

I remember liking that Fieldwork album. Leeway, the theoretical vibe might actually work in its favor on this one. Worth a listen...

[JSngry]

A feel about Lehman the same way I feel about Vijay Iyer, a little too theoretical and stiff for my taste.

I can hear that, for sure, but for whatever reason I respond to it anyway. Kinda surprises me, really, because the world is too full of stiff & theoretical players these days...but these guys...maybe it's just that their theories and their stiffness sync up in a way that makes their point say something to me that the others don't.

What I really like, though, is the rhythmic underpinngs going on..it sounds more like "today" than it does "jazz", and I'm ok with that, very much. Then again, I live in an area where there's a lot of interesting (for me, anyway) "immigrant" programming of all varieties all over the AM dial and the only "jazz" programming of any note is stale college FM radio (there are two hours of non-cliched AM programming on Sunday afternoon, but that's coming from a whole 'nother place its own self...), so whatever "non-jazz" is coming to the table in this music doesn't not appeal to me, if that makes any sense.

All I'm saying is that I don't know how much of the "stiffness" really is stiffness, and/or how much of it is just a place/way to feel that contrats with old notions of "swing". I guess that I'm enjoying it means that the latter is how I perceive it, but that's about as subjective as you can get, eh?

The real thing, though, is this - are the non-marketing aspects of M-Base music starting to come out and into the "mainstream"? That would be very cool afaic. M-Base was marketed waaaaay before it was ready, I think, but the musical and conceptual concepts, they were right on time, and more or less still are.

[jlhoots]

Lehman / Mahanthappa: Dual Identity (Clean Feed CD)

[ep1str0phy]

All I'm saying is that I don't know how much of the "stiffness" really is stiffness, and/or how much of it is just a place/way to feel that contrats with old notions of "swing". I guess that I'm enjoying it means that the latter is how I perceive it, but that's about as subjective as you can get, eh?

The real thing, though, is this - are the non-marketing aspects of M-Base music starting to come out and into the "mainstream"? That would be very cool afaic. M-Base was marketed waaaaay before it was ready, I think, but the musical and conceptual concepts, they were right on time, and more or less still are.

I have a related impression of the current school of mainstream-progressive NY players. It's been a solid 40+ years since the inception of the AACM and the beginnings of European improvised freedom, which can be understood--with some validity--as endgames to certain strains of creative music. Granted that--or, rather, from a different perspective--everyone making music is really just making music, and artists will not be unresponsive to external stimuli (which continue to exist even if all avenues of aesthetic evolution appear unlit). I don't see these new-ish musics as unswinging per se--or even, really, as a "tightening up" of long liberated structures. I think these folks (and I play around/with/sometimes am one of these people, in terms of Bay Area counterparts) have simply grown up far enough away from when swing/no swing was synonymous with an inside/free dyad--and also have lived and loved any number of divergent 20th century arts, whether they be the spectralism Lehman loves so much, alternate hip-hop, electronica, Mortan Feldman or whatever--that it isn't a question of does it swing so much as how it moves.

That being said--and funny there's talk about swiss kriss in the other thread--I think the "loosening up" side of the mountain is often still a bit more fun to listen to and engage with than the "hard beats" side. It's great hearing some of these guys play with Braxton, Threadgill, Mitchell (and Coleman, for that matter, considering M-Base as well as the AACM seem to be spiritual forebears of this movement) as the "old" cats can elicit a degree of surprise and chaos that it seems difficult for younger guys to intuit these days.

Weird side note--it's still open/free/outside/avant/progressive/whatever music, but part of me feels like the general rigidity of this/the under 50 crowd of musicians has to do with a weird adaptation of the exigences of "jazz life"--the idea that virtuosity, the presence of logic, and general (and I know this is out of date rhetoric at this point) modernist vertiginousness are not only prized values but also elements by which we can measure the creative success of things. That is, if we're living in a post free environment and everyone can do whatever they want, some degree of technical stricture is necessary to determine whether or not something is "good." The old school AACM guys and, hell, Ornette or Steve Coleman don't seem to care as much--they're virtually immune to criticism when it comes to the "people who care"--so those giants' musics are looser and more concerned with adventure and dialogue.

Now this: if a guy from this younger crowd can come forward with both the virtuosity and cultural perspective of a Lehman and the I-don't-give-a-shit-what-anyone-thinks-ishness of a Roscoe and the sheer wiliness of an Ornette, I'll buy a ticket to that party.

[JSngry]

If you buy a ticket, it's no longer a party, it's an "event".

That's a big part of the blockage right there...too many events, not enough parties.

[ep1str0phy]

I can see that. Isn't this how a lot of music press operates--the very nature of being at the event makes you late to the party?

If this is the case, then I can name a ton of really worthwhile parties going on right now. Grossly under-attended, yes, but just as worthwhile as--if not more worthwhile than--plenty of events I've been to as of late.

[mjazzg]

seen Lehman Octet and Trio this year in London.

Both very impressive in very different ways.

[JSngry]

Isn't this how a lot of music press operates--the very nature of being at the event makes you late to the party?

Assuming that there ever was a party in the first place...

All of that aside, though, I do like Iyler & Lehman, even though I don't "love" them, which truth be told is probably the way its meant to be, what with me being me and them being them and all. I don't need to love them, and they don't need me to love them, and no fights break out at whatever party is going on.

[mjazzg]

many strings to his bow. try this

http://vimeo.com/23712824

[Leeway]

I grouped Iyer and Lehman, and maybe that was unfair to each, but i do tend to consider them together. Both started on a wave of hype, especially Iyer, probably because he' so articulate (like Shipp, but without the tendency to gut punch you like Shipp, although that's what I like about Shipp). In other words, Iyer talks a good game. I heard him on some Mahanthappa CDs, and his playing left me cold. But my doubts were resolved (at least for now) when I saw him perform with Wadada Leo Smith in DC. Iyer was dreadful. To be fair, so was John Lindberg on bass, a musician I really like. So maybe something else was going on. Compared to Shipp...well, let's not go there. Iyer needs to walk the walk, not just talk it.

As for Lehman, he seems to aiming to take over the mantle of Braxton, without ever having deeply absorbed the multifarious influences and experiences, musical and social, of Braxton. Lehman strikes me as a very clever grad student who can mimic the master. Look at his official bio. It's deep with academic credentials. AndI think therein lies his problem. His music is like a dissertation in the making.

To be fair to both these musicians, they are relatively young. In time, something good might grow, especially in the case of Lehman. Once the hype settles down, and they play more in the major leagues, are challenged and instructed and inspired by those who have been in it a while. they may yet make the case for their music.

[Clunky]

seen Lehman Octet and Trio this year in London.

Both very impressive in very different ways.

The Octet was broadcast on BBCR3 , I was very impressed.

[ep1str0phy]

You can teach ideas, concepts, etc., but you can't teach sensibilities--not in a way that gets to your core. The best sort of pedagogy brings out who you are, rather than gives you instructions regarding what you should do.

Music academics who play music aren't necessarily academic musicians. Braxton wrote the Tri-Axium writings. George Lewis is intensely involved in the academic sector of music. Evan Parker can put on his analytical hat and assemble an interesting historical narrative for Euro free improv. Fred Frith is a tremendous student and teacher of improvisation and modern composition. If not in a strictly "academic" sense, guys like Ornette or Muhal possess serious, deeply thought internal philosophies. Granted, these are "older" guys, but it goes to show that the intellectual and the musical (or even the experimental) can take equal priority without rendering the music stilted or stiff.

I actually think it's kind of difficult to play any sort of creative or experimental music in a post-60's climate without having some sort of philosophical or conceptual understanding of what your'e doing--even if this is not overt/on paper/something you'd care to put into words--it could just be "felt." There are tons of intensely intelligent young musicians who don't make a point of marrying their intellectual selves with their musical beings--and that's fine--and it's also not the only way to live.

The fact that guys like Lehman and Iyer--and Tyshawn Sorey and a number of others--are so overt about making the intellectual underpinnings of their music clear makes me think that this is how they want to be perceived. (The critical word their being want.) We can create our own narratives in a post-postmodern environment--maybe that's what these guys are doing? On a certain level, hoping that Lehman turns into Braxton might be missing the forest for the trees--this is Lehman's story--and it might not be as intrinsically appealing as Braxton's (which is sort of how I feel about it)--but it's a story, nonetheless.

This is also kind of besides the point, but guys like Braxton and Ornette have some deep spiritual sentiments going on--these sentiments inextricably connected to their respective musics. Braxton might be considered intellectual for the nature of his vernacular, his tendency to theorize, and his involvement with a brick-and-mortar institution, but he's not academic in the same way that Lehman and Iyer seem to be. Braxton's philosophy seems to issue from his personal identity/feelings, whereas much of the personal philosophy that, say, Iyer has revealed to the world (I'm not saying that that's all there is--just the stuff that he's brought to the fore) is tied to actual academic standards of research, composition, and thought.

[JSngry]

To be fair (I guess...), I don't really read the "jazz press" any more...I just see who's getting their name out there (somewhere) give a listen when possible and/or motivated, and decide from that. That's becuse the propanda is either way heavy or way light, and either way, it's propaganda, and as such, should be considered as bullshit when it's all said and done. Necessary bullshit careeer-wise, maybe/probably, but bullshit neverhteless.

Like I said, I ain't loving any of these guys, but Iyler...I kinda genuinely dig how and what he plays. There's some meat there, I I like how it tastes. Perhaps if I took it with all the sauce, I'd not like it so much, but you know....sauces are tricky, and I've learned not to take what the chef offers w/o tasting first. You get a lot of good meat ruined by dumbass sauces, so it behooves one to be careful.

Lehman...yeah, Braxton-Lite/Safe/Sane/Whatever, but...the guy's got his own vibe going on, enough to where I can feel some kind of individuality, like a guy who speaks fluent Spanish, just with a Texas accent, w/o really knowing the difference Odd, perhaps even...inappropriate, but in the end, it's a voice in and of itself, and a very fluent one at that.

Ain't neither of these guys exactly rocking my world, but they ain't dragging it down either. Good -and fair - enough in a world where none of this music really matters on the scale that it once did (at least to me), although if Iyler keep it up, he could well end up with his head exploding, and then we'd all find out whether or not to be further interested. Until then, it's just a hunch.

[jlhoots]

I prefer Iyer to Shipp.

But I'm way too old for the "hip-hop" stuff.

[xybert]

Bump.

Big Steve Lehman fan here. FWIW although he's played with Braxton i feel like his own music comes more from Steve Coleman than Braxton. Also worth noting that i hear a bit of Lehman in some of the Coleman Pi albums... bit of a reciprocal thing going on there, maybe.

Release date for the new Octet recording on Pi has been announced as June 24th. It's been roughly five years since Travail, Transformation and Flow came out, an album i've listened to and enjoyed so much it's kind of surreal that there's going to be 'more' soon. Here's a link to a promo video:

http://vimeo.com/92415903

The ''Steve Lehman is important" tone of the video is a bit cringey but thankfully i know his music well enough to not be put off by that stuff... can't wait to hear this new album.

[Leeway]

I've seen Lehman a few times since my last posts in this thread, and I readily admit that I like his work, both composition and playing, now more than I did then. I also found out he has a sense of humor, although I don't think it shows up much in his work. I can see the Coleman aspect, and that's an interesting observation, although I have never heard Lehman mention it (not that that matters). The influence he mentions most is Jackie McLean, with whom he studied. He also studied with Braxton, and sometimes it seems his works is a negotiation between these influences. I think what attracts me in Lehman is the absolute integrity of his efforts and attitude. The album of his I like best is still, "Dialect Fluorescent." It seems most representative.

[CraigP]

To Leeway's point, you can hear Lehman veering between McLean and Braxton on his two early CIMP releases. Dialect Fluorescent seemed to be overlooked when it came out two years ago.