47 replies to this topic

[medjuck]

Discographical information: There seems to be 3 different versions of this: The original Lp (and I think cd) a cd containing the original as well as The Africa Brass Sessions Vol 2 and finally a 2 cd set entitled The Complete Africa Brass Sessions. The last named may be the easiest to obtain nowadays. I have the 2nd mentioned cd and the notes have a lot of misleading information. I presume that The Complete... has better notes. (Or you can check an on-line discography.) And why was it ever referred to as being by The John Coltrane Quartet? There are at 15 musicians playing even if only the quartet members take solos. (Actually even that's not true: both bass players seem to solo and some of Dolphy's fills might be called solos. )

All versions have cuts from 2 different sessions: May 23rd and June 4th 1961. In between these 2 sessions Coltrane recorded the rather similar Oleo for Atlantic with another augmented quartet (an extra bass player and Dolphy--who does get to solo. )

I love this record-- or at last the original release. The master takes do seem to me to be the best. Coltrane is on fire and the brass lays an almost mellow cushion for him. On Africa, at the end of Tyner's solo he begins playing block chords that are then continued by the brass. Similarly at the end of Elvin's solo the two basses come in almost imperceptibly: one arco and one plucked. (This doesn't happen on the alternate take I have. however, on that take McCoy takes a great solo which includes what I can only describe as a "rolling chorus"- if that makes sense.)

And hey, is that the father of the governor of Massachusetts on baritone?

[felser]

Great choice, love this one. Dolphy did an amazing job on the arrangements, and Trane's playing is awe-inspiring. I agree about the originally released masters being the strongest (the original album doesn't have a weak moment on it, stone classic start to finish), but there are titles on the "complete" set ("Song of the Underground Railroad" and "the Damned Don't Cry") that are well worth having, and the set is not expensive.

edited to correct week/weak spelling mistake!

Edited by felser, 11 February 2007 - 09:06 PM.

[Chuck Nessa]

Great choice, love this one. Dolphy did an amazing job on the arrangements, and Trane's playing is awe-inspiring. I agree about the originally released masters being the strongest (the original album doesn't have a week moment on it, stone classic start to finish), but there are titles on the "complete" set ("Song of the Underground Railroad" and "the Damned Don't Cry") that are well worth having, and the set is not expensive.

Not sure what a "week moment" is but you really need the 2 disc set. The notes answer your questions and give you more music in better sound.

[felser]

Not sure what a "week moment" is but you really need the 2 disc set. The notes answer your questions and give you more music in better sound.

It's a lot like a weak moment, but not spelled as correctly.

Edited by felser, 11 February 2007 - 09:05 PM.

[Chas]

Not sure what a "week moment" is but you really need the 2 disc set. The notes answer your questions and give you more music in better sound.

I have the 2-CD set and don't have anything to compare it with , but I've always thought that the sound was pretty mediocre , especially given the sonic excellence of other Impulse recordings . The orchestra is veiled and distant , and Tranes's horn on The Damned Don't Cry is watery .
The orchestrations and Trane's solos are sublime , and among the supporting players Reggie Workman stands very tall indeed .

[felser]

among the supporting players Reggie Workman stands very tall indeed .

That statement is true for countless sessions. Why did Trane replace Workman with Garrison? I've never read an answer to that, and it's not clear the way that replacing, say Art Taylor/Lex Humphries and Steve Kuhn with Elvin Jones and McCoy Tyner would be.

[John Tapscott]

Listened to my old LP last night which I hadn't heard for probably 10 years. It is a great session, very satisfying listening. In Ashley's Khan's "The House That "Trane Built", it's claimed that Oliver Nelson was supposed to be the arranger for this session, but was unavailable at the last moment. Perhaps that was providential, since I can't imagine he would have arranged like this for the band. Not to take anything away from Oliver, but I expect his arranging would have been more "mainstream," perhaps not even using this intrumentation. But what Dolphy does with the brass is quite astounding. I love those French horn shrieks. And the baritone horns are very nice. Of course, Coltrane is a powerhouse, and Tyner sounds very inspired, as well.

[Guy]

This version of "Greensleeves" is kind of stiff compared to the ones recorded at the Vanguard. I'm not a huge fan of this song.

Guy

[Rosco]

I have the 2nd mentioned cd and the notes have a lot of misleading information. I presume that The Complete... has better notes.

Even that manages to screw up the original release information.

[Noj]

I love this album...especially Greensleeves.

[Guy]

My favorite things on this set, by far, are the alternate and master take of "Africa". I love the ensemble's playing behind Coltrane, Elvin's drumming, the bass drone, and especially Trane's playing.

Guy

[Chuck Nessa]

Interesting comparing all 3 takes of Africa.

[mikeweil]

Indeed - I had all the LP issues of that material which was scattered over three or four LPs and was glad when the double CD finally gave me all in one place and far better sound. Go for the double - it's worth it!

It was billed as a quartet album as it was simply that with a brass section added, none of whom got to solo.

Dolphy's arrangements were based on Tyner's voicings and the like - sometimes it sounds like a stampede of elephants - great stuff!

[mikeweil]

..... the bass drone, .....

Yeah - Africa/Brass was the first music where I heard, appreciated and loved this kind of thing.

[clifford_thornton]

I love this album...especially Greensleeves.

I only have the LP as issued and not the extra material, but will give it a spin this week.

There's a nice version of "Greensleeves" from the Noah Howard/Frank Lowe juggernaut of the early '70s which floats around on free jazz trees from time to time.

[sidewinder]

One of my all time faves - gave the 2CD set a listen recently and also my mid-70s UK Impulse LP, which I prefer sonically (although the additional material on the 2CD, 'Damned Don't Cry' in particular, is fascinating).

'Blue Minor' still raises the hairs, even 30 years after I first heard it. Condensed masterpiece !

[B. Goren.]

I love this album...especially Greensleeves.

Exactly my thoughts.

[danasgoodstuff]

I'll go one step further - I love this album, esp'ly Greensleeves, particularly the alt. take...

Edited by danasgoodstuff, 14 February 2007 - 10:45 PM.

[Frankie Machine]

I think Coltrane's final Atlantic album, Ole, should also be considered when discussing Africa/Brass. Of course there are many similarities in the music, as well as extraneous musicians (Dolphy, Hubbard, Art Davis). I've always seen Ole as Africa/Brass without the orchestra. It's also interesting to note that the recording session that produced Ole (May 25, 1961) was sandwiched in between the two that produced Africa/Brass (May 23 and June 7, 1961). The sound he gets from these two records is one unique to jazz as a whole, and totally unlike anything else he recorded.

[randyhersom]

My tastes in music run toward the dramatic and I'd give serious consideration to calling this the greatest recording ever. My preferred listening experience would be the original three track configuration, but I don't want to be without the bonus tracks.
I have other moods in which the Body and Soul from Coltrane's Sound would get that honor, but I find myself wanting to hear this right now. I'll get home from work in a few hours, have to wait until then.
Coltrane's entry over the throbbing heartbeat bass - what a moment.

Edited by randyhersom, 16 February 2007 - 01:48 PM.

[randyhersom]

P. S. Hell yeah on Greensleeves too! Whenever I hear Blues Minor I can't help but hear the tune's similarities to Bag's Groove, but I love it too.

[mikeweil]

Whenever I hear Blues Minor I can't help but hear the tune's similarities to Bag's Groove, but I love it too.

It wasn't that long ago that "Bags and Trane" was recorded ...



Hi, Randy - taking a break from scrabbling?
Haven't seen you around here in a while.

[sidewinder]

I love this album...especially Greensleeves.

Incredible that that tune was credited to King Henry VIII (or one of his 1500s Court musicians)..

[CJ Shearn]

I love the 2nd alternate of "Africa". Definitely one of my fav. Coltrane sessions.

[Frankie Machine]

Listening again for the first time in a while, and the first time since upgrading my speakers. Reggie Workman on "Song of the Underground Railroad" really stands out on these new speakers; he's just walking all over the place and swinging like mad! And of course there's Elvin back there stoking the fire; so, yeah, what stands out to me this go 'round is just how much this piece swings!

[randyhersom]

I'm a fairly reliable lurker, but dropped off the Blindfold Tests due to time difficulties. Scrabble going OK, dabbling in tournament poker also.

[Chas]

AOTWs often elicit unanimous praise , so for a change of pace I thought I would post this review of Africa Brass from Martin Williams . A critic who ' got ' Ornette Coleman early on , but who never really ' got ' John Coltrane , Williams is thought by some to be too cerebral or formalist in his criticism . Yet his criticism of Africa Brass rests on Coltrane's inability to communicate in a way that Williams finds emotionally satisfying .
I find this difficult to fathom . Coltrane always connects with me emotionally , viscerally , sounding like he has to play what he does ; his playing never sounds like an exercise , never sounds self-consciously avant-garde . It's this emotional directness that appeals even to those who otherwise eschew avant-garde jazz .
Anyway , here is what Williams had to say in support of his two-star review :

" Certainly no one could question Coltrane's particular skill as a tenor saxophonist . Nor that his ear for harmony , his knowledge of it , and his use of it , can fascinate . Nor do I question that his playing is honestly emotional , if , to me , somewhat diffusely so .
What I do question is whether here this exposition of skills adds up to anything more than a dazzling and passionate array of scales and arpeggios . If one looks for melodic development or even for some sort of technical order or logic , he may find none here .
In these pieces , Coltrane has done on record what he has done so often in person lately , make everything into a handful of chords , frequently only two or three , and run them in every conceivable way , offering what is , in effect , an extended cadenza to a piece that never gets played , a prolonged montuna interlude surrounded by no rhumba or son , or a very long vamp 'til ready .
Africa is African by the suggestion of its rhythms . It has some brass figures that , for me , get a bit too monotonous to add variety and which are also in general too much in the background to add much of their own .
I must say that Workman and Davis , particularly when they work together , fascinated me , and that Tyner plays a good solo . These three also manage to swing , and they provide one of the few instances of real swing in this recital.
Greensleeves is converted into a 6/8 Gospel-like meter , but once you have the hang of that , after a chorus or two , you have the hang of that .
On Blues Minor , which seems to me uncomfortably close to Bags' Groove , Coltrane again begins a kind of ingenious workout on a couple of repeated chords after a chorus or so .
The point is not that it is impossible to make high art out of very simple materials . Many a blues player can make fascinating music on three chords , two chords , one chord--even no chords really . Nor that it is impossible to make fine jazz solos out of arpeggios : Jimmy Noone did it , Coleman Hawkins does it , Coltrane has done it .
Perhaps my remark in the beginning about emotion does hold an answer . After all , Noone and Hawkins both have a directness and organization of feeling within each piece and a variety of feeling from one piece to the next . "

Downbeat January 18 , 1962 p. 29 , 32

[paul secor]

One of Martin Williams' blind spots was his music = logic mindset. "If one looks for melodic development or even for some sort of technical order or logic, he may find none here." And for all of his positive critical qualities, he did have that blind spot.

[Chuck Nessa]

Another observation about MW (not related to Africa Brass) was his "embarrassment" when humor was used in music. He was a huge fan of tv comedies but was uncomfortable with comic/entertainment tendencies of jazz musicians.

[Shrdlu]

This is a longtime favorite album. I love all the new takes that have surfaced, but the original album is just a classic!

"Blues Minor" is the best track, for me. A real cooker that makes the hairs stand on end. It stands out in the same way as "Vilia" and "Softly As In A Morning Sunrise" at the Vanguard. Makes you want a lot more!

(That "Vilia" track kinda frustrates me, as it's the only released cut from its session, and it makes you wonder what the other selections from that date sounded like.)

Re the comparison with "Ole", I much prefer Rudy's engineering. The Atlantics sound as if the guys are in cardboard boxes, especially the cymbals. If only Rudy had recorded that album!