Guy Berger

Stewart Copeland on why jazz sucks

86 posts in this topic

Again, so what if he doesn't like jazz?

It isn't a matter of like or dislike but total disregard and disrespect for musicians who can play rings around him and his pathetic bandmates. Add that to his laughable knowledge of the music ... I mean, forget that calling Miles with Tony Williams "early" ignores the Birth of the Cool - what about the first Quintet? The Trane-Cannonball band? All the other recorded bands that came before the second Quintet?

I don't give a shit if a loser like him doesn't "like" jazz. Anyone who makes the crap he does, I wouldn't expect him to have any appreciation for something as complex and challenging as jazz. But to disrespect the musicians and know nothing of the history anyway? Fuck that.

I think you guys are going way over board on this one.

The guy is a drummer, for crying out loud. :g

One thing is for sure: Copeland certainly plays rings around just about every member on this board.

Pathetic bandmates?

Paul McCartney is pathetic.

John Lennon was half the time.

Keith Moon was the epitome of pathetic.

The list is endless.

It's the music, man.

If you don't like it, don't listen to it, fine.

But to call someone like Andy Summers pathetic is coming on a bit strong, I think.

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Again, so what if he doesn't like jazz?

It isn't a matter of like or dislike but total disregard and disrespect for musicians who can play rings around him and his pathetic bandmates. Add that to his laughable knowledge of the music ... I mean, forget that calling Miles with Tony Williams "early" ignores the Birth of the Cool - what about the first Quintet? The Trane-Cannonball band? All the other recorded bands that came before the second Quintet?

I don't give a shit if a loser like him doesn't "like" jazz. Anyone who makes the crap he does, I wouldn't expect him to have any appreciation for something as complex and challenging as jazz. But to disrespect the musicians and know nothing of the history anyway? Fuck that.

I think you guys are going way over board on this one.

The guy is a drummer, for crying out loud. :g

One thing is for sure: Copeland certainly plays rings around just about every member on this board.

Pathetic bandmates?

Paul McCartney is pathetic.

John Lennon was half the time.

Keith Moon was the epitome of pathetic.

The list is endless.

It's the music, man.

If you don't like it, don't listen to it, fine.

But to call someone like Andy Summers pathetic is coming on a bit strong, I think.

Dan's pig-headed, close-minded, stupid and unreasonable in these matters. Don't pay any attention to him. :rlol

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Paul McCartney is pathetic.

John Lennon was half the time.

Keith Moon was the epitome of pathetic.

The list is endless.

It's the music, man.

If you don't like it, don't listen to it, fine.

But to call someone like Andy Summers pathetic is coming on a bit strong, I think.

oops.

I think I just banned myself from the Steve Hoffman Forums. :rfr

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heres how we settle it:

Stewie "lame-ass" Copeland vs. Roy "my man" Haynes

In An Epic Drum-Off To Save The Good Name Of Jazz

Winner gets lifetime bragging rights

Loser has to have seven hours of tantric sex with sting

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To paraphrase Miles, I rather listen to Kenny Aronoff fuck up a backbeat, than hear Stewart Copeland play Roxanne with all of his electronic drum enhancements. He's got a lot of those gizmos on his kit so he can sound like a real drummer.

I remember a article on Max Roach where he said they(?) invited him to one of their concerts in Austin. Max was gracious in his comments. Max is a real drummer.

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What a vagina (no offense meant to the ladies.) sounds like this guy has issues with his daddy. maybe hes exacting his revenge after being subjected to so many cocaine-induced jam sessions as a kid. can't say i disagree with him comments on miles (although he definitely did have musical talent) This guy is obviously an idiot, which makes sense considering that he teamed up with narcissist-supreme sting. the police are lame anyway

As i said above about insecurity being ugly. :rolleyes:

Why is it that whenever someone expresses an unpopular opinion everyone must attack him and insist that "he's obviously an idiot?"

Again, so what if he doesn't like jazz?

I think when you go to extremes like "Coltrane and Miles suck". That's basically taking an unmusical approach to music. If I said B.B King Sucks, Jimi Hendrix sucks and James Brown sucks. Then I think it would be fair for you to question my musical judgement.... Personally, I think it's just rock and roll hype bull as usual. His record collection is probably all shit elvin jones is on....

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He's just trying to get attention beyond his "fan base". Let it go.

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As i said above about insecurity being ugly. :rolleyes:

Why is it that whenever someone expresses an unpopular opinion everyone must attack him and insist that "he's obviously an idiot?"

Again, so what if he doesn't like jazz?

Yes, I am guilty. I admit that the main reason depends on the fact the one of my early girlfriends had some sort of worship for Sting, and I were jealous: he was more handsome, more rich, more famous and sang better then me. At times I presumed that also his schwantzstuck was bigger then mine.

And now I still hates him, because I am exhausted after only ten minuts of tantric sex, and he could last for seven hours. :ph34r:

Now that's a good reason for hating The Police! :lol:

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That does it, I won't be spending $100 to join their fan club. And no t-shirts.

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Paul McCartney is pathetic.

John Lennon was half the time.

Keith Moon was the epitome of pathetic.

The list is endless.

It's the music, man.

If you don't like it, don't listen to it, fine.

But to call someone like Andy Summers pathetic is coming on a bit strong, I think.

oops.

I think I just banned myself from the Steve Hoffman Forums. :rfr

Please read the forum rules and please do not question the decisions of the Gorts, especially in public.

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I wouldn't take Copeland too seriously. Many rock musicians of his generation tend to say silly things to appear provocative and get attention. Just be grateful he didn't pull an Elvis Costello.

Copeland may also be confusing jazz with the tantric soft rock that Sting pursued.

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fwiw, I know more than a few "jazz musicians" who fit Copeland's description of neurotic, vain, anti-social, sexually insecure creatures whose music serves as a vehicle to express their sociopathy.

Then again, I know more than a few who aren't.

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fwiw, I know more than a few "jazz musicians" who fit Copeland's description of neurotic, vain, anti-social, sexually insecure creatures whose music serves as a vehicle to express their sociopathy.

ChicagoMobDixielandJazz.jpg

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heres how we settle it:

Stewie "lame-ass" Copeland vs. Roy "my man" Haynes

In An Epic Drum-Off To Save The Good Name Of Jazz

Winner gets lifetime bragging rights

Loser has to have seven hours of tantric sex with sting

I thought EXACTLY the same thing. a drum-off with Haynes, who would blow Copeland right off the stage. Elvin in his last weeks of life where his playing was something less than stellar could have blown Copeland off the stage. How about Chris Dave? How about Billy Cobham (he played with McCoy in 2005 at Yoshi's and we talked about it for weeks). Lenny White? Name your favorite jazz drummer. In fact, let's start a movement to get Copeland to put up or shut up.

As for attitude, is there anyone more narcissitic than a rock star? How unseemly is it for someone who makes more money than gawd to knock people who work like dogs, make about 1% of Copeland's salary then trash their musical skills?

Unlike Copeland, Flea of the Chili Peppers, who also grew up in a jazz household and still fools around with jazz trumpet, respects jazz musicians and the art form. Flea is also one bad mutha on the bass and the best reason to listen to that band (the second would be Frusciante). He had a sign behind him at the Grammys giving much love to Ornette.

Copeland is an ass. He's such a baby he needs to be a flame thrower to get a little bit of attention from the press. I still maintain that Copeland couldn't cut is as a jazz muscian and his insecurity won't allow him to get over it. I mean, if he was such a great jazz talent, I suppose Sting would have used him instead of someone who could actually play jazz when Sting was dabbling in jazz lite. Did you hear them play Roxanne at the Grammy's? Sounded like warmed over mush. All I could hear in my head was the version Sting recorded with Branford and how much BETTER that version sounded than whatever was going on Sunday night.

Rant complete. You are returned to your regularly scheduled discussion.

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Sting: I was always sort of proud of that, yeah. As a narrative, it had a beginning, middle and an end. The story actually developed. It wasn't just 'I'm lonely, isn't it terrible!' - which is what a lot of my other songs were about. If I'm lonely, but I realise everybody else is too. I feel better. I think the Germans call that Schadenfreude - enjoying the misery of others.

Stewart Copeland: My favourite thing about Message In A Bottle, apart from all the money we made off it, was hearing cover bands trying to play my drum parts. I'd overdubbed about six different parts, and to watch some band in a Holiday Inn struggling to play all those overdubs still gives me great joy. Now that is really Schadenfreude.

http://www.cybercomm.nl/~gugten/article11.html

:lol:

:tup Stewart Copeland :tup

Edited by rockefeller center

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heres how we settle it:

Stewie "lame-ass" Copeland vs. Roy "my man" Haynes

In An Epic Drum-Off To Save The Good Name Of Jazz

Winner gets lifetime bragging rights

Loser has to have seven hours of tantric sex with sting

I thought EXACTLY the same thing. a drum-off with Haynes, who would blow Copeland right off the stage. Elvin in his last weeks of life where his playing was something less than stellar could have blown Copeland off the stage. How about Chris Dave? How about Billy Cobham (he played with McCoy in 2005 at Yoshi's and we talked about it for weeks). Lenny White? Name your favorite jazz drummer. In fact, let's start a movement to get Copeland to put up or shut up.

As for attitude, is there anyone more narcissitic than a rock star? How unseemly is it for someone who makes more money than gawd to knock people who work like dogs, make about 1% of Copeland's salary then trash their musical skills?

Unlike Copeland, Flea of the Chili Peppers, who also grew up in a jazz household and still fools around with jazz trumpet, respects jazz musicians and the art form. Flea is also one bad mutha on the bass and the best reason to listen to that band (the second would be Frusciante). He had a sign behind him at the Grammys giving much love to Ornette.

Copeland is an ass. He's such a baby he needs to be a flame thrower to get a little bit of attention from the press. I still maintain that Copeland couldn't cut is as a jazz muscian and his insecurity won't allow him to get over it. I mean, if he was such a great jazz talent, I suppose Sting would have used him instead of someone who could actually play jazz when Sting was dabbling in jazz lite. Did you hear them play Roxanne at the Grammy's? Sounded like warmed over mush. All I could hear in my head was the version Sting recorded with Branford and how much BETTER that version sounded than whatever was going on Sunday night.

Rant complete. You are returned to your regularly scheduled discussion.

This has all become so damn juvenile. A drum-off between Copeland and Haynes (or anyone) is pointless; it's apples and oranges. One's a rock drummer, one's a jazz drummer. That's like having Ella sing "against" Maria Callas and then ask which one's better.

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Loser has to have seven hours of tantric sex with sting

This put me in mind of the part in Miles' autobiography when he tells Bill Evans what he has to do to, uh, get into the band.

Weren't Lennon & McCartney on record as hating jazz? Although (as someone else pointed out on another listserv) what they "hated" may have been 1950s British trad jazz... not something I'm terribly fond of myself. Whatever Copeland's sincerity or insincerity, it is true that jazz was no longer a music of rebellion by the time he was growing up--at least in most quarters. Something pivoted between 1954, when you have Brando's motorcycle gang snapping their fingers to bop on the jukebox in THE WILD ONE, and 1956, when you have jazz represented as a snobby, elitist, egghead music in JAILHOUSE ROCK (not to mention BLACKBOARD JUNGLE's infamous jazz-record-trashing scene).

Edited by ghost of miles

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heres how we settle it:

Stewie "lame-ass" Copeland vs. Roy "my man" Haynes

In An Epic Drum-Off To Save The Good Name Of Jazz

Winner gets lifetime bragging rights

Loser has to have seven hours of tantric sex with sting

I thought EXACTLY the same thing. a drum-off with Haynes, who would blow Copeland right off the stage. Elvin in his last weeks of life where his playing was something less than stellar could have blown Copeland off the stage. How about Chris Dave? How about Billy Cobham (he played with McCoy in 2005 at Yoshi's and we talked about it for weeks). Lenny White? Name your favorite jazz drummer. In fact, let's start a movement to get Copeland to put up or shut up.

As for attitude, is there anyone more narcissitic than a rock star? How unseemly is it for someone who makes more money than gawd to knock people who work like dogs, make about 1% of Copeland's salary then trash their musical skills?

Unlike Copeland, Flea of the Chili Peppers, who also grew up in a jazz household and still fools around with jazz trumpet, respects jazz musicians and the art form. Flea is also one bad mutha on the bass and the best reason to listen to that band (the second would be Frusciante). He had a sign behind him at the Grammys giving much love to Ornette.

Copeland is an ass. He's such a baby he needs to be a flame thrower to get a little bit of attention from the press. I still maintain that Copeland couldn't cut is as a jazz muscian and his insecurity won't allow him to get over it. I mean, if he was such a great jazz talent, I suppose Sting would have used him instead of someone who could actually play jazz when Sting was dabbling in jazz lite. Did you hear them play Roxanne at the Grammy's? Sounded like warmed over mush. All I could hear in my head was the version Sting recorded with Branford and how much BETTER that version sounded than whatever was going on Sunday night.

Rant complete. You are returned to your regularly scheduled discussion.

This has all become so damn juvenile. A drum-off between Copeland and Haynes (or anyone) is pointless; it's apples and oranges. One's a rock drummer, one's a jazz drummer. That's like having Ella sing "against" Maria Callas and then ask which one's better.

Actually, it would be more like Ella and Britney.

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Actually, it would be more like Ella and Britney.

Except for the fact that, regardless of how poor his brain might be, Stew Copeland is undeniably a great drummer. Certainly on of the best in rock history, which does mean something. Jazz chauvinism is no more acceptable. I mean really, a drum off? Why not have their dads arm wrestle while we are at it.

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Anybody remember Ginger Baker & Elvin getting into it?

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Anybody remember Ginger Baker & Elvin getting into it?

I've heard about this, but don't know the whole story. What's the 411 on the Elvin vs. Ginger thing?

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Anybody remember Ginger Baker & Elvin getting into it?

What about Ginger and Maryanne???

Gilligan10.JPG

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Elvin bashed Baker in a DB BFT, Baker took offense in public & called Elvin out, which resulted in a drum battle in, I think, London. Everybody kissed & made up after the concert and lived happily ever after.

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Anybody remember Ginger Baker & Elvin getting into it?

My father likes to reflect on this on a monthly basis.

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Actually, it would be more like Ella and Britney.

Except for the fact that, regardless of how poor his brain might be, Stew Copeland is undeniably a great drummer. Certainly on of the best in rock history, which does mean something. Jazz chauvinism is no more acceptable. I mean really, a drum off? Why not have their dads arm wrestle while we are at it.

A fair assessement of Haynes' and Copeland's greatness would be to see how easily, or even if, one could adapt to the style of playing of the other. That's not apples and oranges. Musicans can and do crossover, if they are skilled.

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