The Baseball Thread 2007

[Big Al]

All I know is the Rangers ballpark is now called the Rangers Ballpark in Arlington, now that Ameriquest doesn't want to pay to have their worthless name pasted on the stadium.

When was the last time something like THAT happened? Where a corporate sponsor removed their name, only to have the more-beloved name return?

If nothing else happens this season, if the Rangers have yet another mediocre season marred by pitching woes, overrated defense, and silent bats, for this reason and this reason ONLY, this will be the best season in YEARS for this Rangers fan!

[Matthew]

What's up with DiceK throwing 105 pitches in a stupid exhibition game! Whose the manager of the Red Sox now? Tommy Lasorda? Sheesh....

[Quincy]

What's up with DiceK throwing 105 pitches in a stupid exhibition game! Whose the manager of the Red Sox now? Tommy Lasorda? Sheesh....

Good to see ya back!

Sorry I don't have a link, but his condioning routine is very different from the modern coddled on-a-pitch-count US pitcher. Although Dice usually only pitched every 6 days in Japan, his training was waaaaay over the top in comparison to here. 300 ft long tossing in between starts and throwing pitches after (like, right after!) his start are just a couple of the unconventional (though not in Japan) sorts of things he did. Too bad Jim Kaat retired from announcing, otherwise he'd probably go on about how he did that sort of thing as a kid.

I've read the Red Sox & Dice-K are (or maybe it's past tense now) trying to reach a compromise regarding his training & habits. I think the Sports Illustrated site has a story that goes into how he trained in Japan.

[Dan Gould]

What's up with DiceK throwing 105 pitches in a stupid exhibition game! Whose the manager of the Red Sox now? Tommy Lasorda? Sheesh....

Good to see ya back!

Sorry I don't have a link, but his condioning routine is very different from the modern coddled on-a-pitch-count US pitcher. Although Dice usually only pitched every 6 days in Japan, his training was waaaaay over the top in comparison to here. 300 ft long tossing in between starts and throwing pitches after (like, right after!) his start are just a couple of the unconventional (though not in Japan) sorts of things he did. Too bad Jim Kaat retired from announcing, otherwise he'd probably go on about how he did that sort of thing as a kid.

I've read the Red Sox & Dice-K are (or maybe it's past tense now) trying to reach a compromise regarding his training & habits. I think the Sports Illustrated site has a story that goes into how he trained in Japan.

Matthew, its standard operating procedure to "stretch out" a starter in spring training. Schilling's prior start he threw 85 pitches but he was so efficient it got him through seven innings and he expressed disappointment that he didn't take more pitches to reach his pre-approved limit of seven innings. He was planning to throw more pitches and was actually annoyed that he was so effficient, he didn't get the chance to since the relievers needed their innings. Schilling is going tonite in his last tune up for Opening Day and will throttle back to something like 40-50 pitches. Same for Dice, who faces the Phillies on Friday and will throw about forty pitches in preparation for his first game, Wednesday at KC.

There was nothing wrong or out of whack with the number of pitches Dice threw on Monday and he followed a perfectly normal procedure to get to that point during spring training.

[Matthew]

I know they stretch out, but 105 is still a lot for exhibition baseball, (IMHO, of course ). Sounds like the "conventional wisdom" is for Dice K to tear things up the first time around the league. Probably will have 12-15 wins by the All-Star break. It'll be interesting to see how Terry Francona handles Matsuzaka, I just have a funny feeling he's going to work Dice-K into the ground.

[Dan Gould]

I know they stretch out, but 105 is still a lot for exhibition baseball, (IMHO, of course ). Sounds like the "conventional wisdom" is for Dice K to tear things up the first time around the league. Probably will have 12-15 wins by the All-Star break. It'll be interesting to see how Terry Francona handles Matsuzaka, I just have a funny feeling he's going to work Dice-K into the ground.

Well it is your opinion, be it ever so humble.

But its not going to be a matter of Francona working him into the ground, its how Dice adopts from pitching once a week with 140+ pitches and also working extremely hard in between starts to going every five days on a shorter pitch count (I'm guessing 110-120) and figuring out what kind of work is needed in between to stay both strong and maintain command.

You know, the interesting thing is that so many "old time" American pitchers have been saying that the problem is coddling pitchers today, that back in the day, to have good arm strength, you threw. In Japan, that is what they do - they throw and they throw. A big deal is made about all of the pitches Dice has thrown, starting with the 250 pitch complete game in that high school tournament. Yet according to that article in SI that Quincy mentioned, when the Sox got the results on the MRI of his arm, it was "clean as a whistle". Is he just unique or is it a function of the training methods? I tell you what, if Dice dominates the league, throwing complete game shutouts, etc., etc., I have to wonder whether there might be some changes coming to the way pitchers are dealt with. Admittedly, its going to be tough to break such an entrenched mind-set.

[Matthew]

I know they stretch out, but 105 is still a lot for exhibition baseball, (IMHO, of course ). Sounds like the "conventional wisdom" is for Dice K to tear things up the first time around the league. Probably will have 12-15 wins by the All-Star break. It'll be interesting to see how Terry Francona handles Matsuzaka, I just have a funny feeling he's going to work Dice-K into the ground.

Well it is your opinion, be it ever so humble.

But its not going to be a matter of Francona working him into the ground, its how Dice adopts from pitching once a week with 140+ pitches and also working extremely hard in between starts to going every five days on a shorter pitch count (I'm guessing 110-120) and figuring out what kind of work is needed in between to stay both strong and maintain command.

You know, the interesting thing is that so many "old time" American pitchers have been saying that the problem is coddling pitchers today, that back in the day, to have good arm strength, you threw. In Japan, that is what they do - they throw and they throw. A big deal is made about all of the pitches Dice has thrown, starting with the 250 pitch complete game in that high school tournament. Yet according to that article in SI that Quincy mentioned, when the Sox got the results on the MRI of his arm, it was "clean as a whistle". Is he just unique or is it a function of the training methods? I tell you what, if Dice dominates the league, throwing complete game shutouts, etc., etc., I have to wonder whether there might be some changes coming to the way pitchers are dealt with. Admittedly, its going to be tough to break such an entrenched mind-set.

I think when American baseball freaked-out over innings was when Billy Martin had his A's pitchers go for a ton of innings. He went with that four man rotation, and stayed with it all year, and they were never the same after that. I agree that pitchers are coddled nowadays.

Warning: Old Geezer Talk. Back in the day, it wasn't that uncommon for a pitcher to go 300 innings in a year, with a lot of complete games. Now it's a "quality start" if someone makes it into the seventh. I tell ya whippersnappers, baseball was a mans game when I was younger.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Matthew

[Dan Gould]

I think the big difference is that the A's pitchers weren't prepared for that workload, not that their arms were too young, they weren't like Dice-K being on an intense throwing program since his teens. No doubt Martin ruined his pitchers - as did Dusty Baker with Pryor and Wood. Pryor and especially Wood had delivery flaws that were going to catch up to them eventually, but I don't recall if the young A's arms had those problems or well or if they were just overworked when they weren't ready for it.

But Matthew, you say that pitchers are coddled nowadays, yet you object to a hundred pitch outing at the end of ST. Which is it?

[Matthew]

But Matthew, you say that pitchers are coddled nowadays, yet you object to a hundred pitch outing at the end of ST. Which is it?

It's all Hegelean:

thesis---->antithesis---->synthesis!

I always knew that B.A. in philosophy would come in handy one day.

[Chalupa]

I always knew that B.A. in philosophy would come in handy one day.

I'm still waiting

[alocispepraluger102]

all that pitching scouts look at now is that damn speed gun. you dont have to throw hard to be a great pitcher.

[Tim McG]

all that pitching scouts look at now is that damn speed gun. you dont have to throw hard to be a great pitcher.

True enough.

And now that pitch counts are all the rage, it's a small wonder more games aren't lost by an over used bullpen on top of that.

[alocispepraluger102]

all that pitching scouts look at now is that damn speed gun. you dont have to throw hard to be a great pitcher.

True enough.

And now that pitch counts are all the rage, it's a small wonder more games aren't lost by an over used bullpen on top of that.

too, some umpires on certain days have impossible strike zones, unless you are clemens or pedro or glavin or a few others. on certain days certain pitchers couldnt get a strike called if they hand carried the ball across the plate.

Edited March 28, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[chris olivarez]

To quote former redbirds pitcher Joe Magrane-"Babe Ruth is dead-just throw strikes".

[Tim McG]

all that pitching scouts look at now is that damn speed gun. you dont have to throw hard to be a great pitcher.

True enough.

And now that pitch counts are all the rage, it's a small wonder more games aren't lost by an over used bullpen on top of that.

too, some umpires on certain days have impossible strike zones, unless you are clemens or pedro or glavin or a few others. on certain days certain pitchers couldnt get a strike called if they hand carried the ball across the plate.

That's a fact, too.

The umpires seem to want to be "the show" rather than just do their jobs.

Edited March 29, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Matthew]

What are some good baseball websites that people here use? ESPN/Fox/SI have really gone downhill in their baseball coverage, so a good baseball site would be welcome.

[Dan Gould]

What are some good baseball websites that people here use? ESPN/Fox/SI have really gone downhill in their baseball coverage, so a good baseball site would be welcome.

Since so much is now part of the "pay" site I hardly check ESPN except for breaking news. Fox is better than SI, they have new material more often (anyone ever notice that Ken Rosenthal seems to post new articles at like 4 in the morning? Must have insomnia.)

The other sites I visit are only good for rumors: ProSportsDaily has a splash page to see rumors/predictions of a particular team, mlbtraderumors is just a blog but is still a pretty good source.

And of course mlb.com has news and commentary and is free. They are worth a look.

[Soulstation1]

The Only MLB Website You'll Need For The Season

[Quincy]

SI has recently revamped its baseball section. I used to rarely go there, but at least the team pages seem more useful. I guess the trick will be how it handles the regular season. They also give links to team oriented blogs (as expected, on each of the team pages.)

I only recently discovered Baseballmusings, but I think I like it.

And for something silly, there's the fake chat section on the lower left of The Dugout. An aquired taste, or maybe no taste at all.

Not long until Opening Day!

[Matthew]

The Only MLB Website You'll Need For The Season

If you have a really good site for your favorite team, that's great also. It's all good. Here's the site I go to first for Seattle Mariner news.

[Soulstation1]

anyone join a fantasy league?

[Quincy]

anyone join a fantasy league?

I'm in 2 head-to-head leagues. Dice-K on both my teams (one was an auto-draft and he'll be the #2 to Johan Santana!) I'm relying on Delmon Young of the Rays as an OF on both teams. That could be interesting.

And a sign that yes indeed it is fantasy (careful reading this Dan), I have ARod & Ortiz together on one of my teams. Gee, I hope they'll get along okay.

[Tim McG]

Looks like the Giants have set their pitching rotation:

Barry Zito LHP

Matt Cain RHP

Matt Morris LHP

Noah Lowry LHP

Russ Ortiz RHP

Edited March 29, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Matthew]

Looks like the Giants have set their pitching rotation:

Matt Morris LHP

Didn't know Matt was that talented.

[Dan Gould]

And a sign that yes indeed it is fantasy (careful reading this Dan), I have ARod & Ortiz together on one of my teams. Gee, I hope they'll get along okay.

Who said Papi wouldn't get along with A-Rod? Papi loves everybody!

Now if you said that you had A-Rod and Varitek on the same team, then I'd be a little concerned.