Cannonball Adderley

[Late]

1 hour ago, gmonahan said:

I think Universal owns the Capitol stuff, doesn't it?

You're probably right. (I never really know who owns what.) Does that mean a Mosaic set is theoretically possible? 

1 minute ago, felser said:

Same here. I also like Flora Purim on it.

It's at least available on Amazon as a download ... 

Dig this trivia:

In 1975, Adderley appeared in an acting role alongside José Feliciano and David Carradine in the episode "Battle Hymn" in the third season of the TV series Kung Fu.^[13]

 

Adderley's character name was Trim Delaville.

More trivia:

I didn't know that Adderley was married to Olga James.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, felser said:

Here's what I see out there.  I'm not familiar with a few of these.  Might make sense for two sets, one of the live stuff, another for the studio material.

Cannonball Adderley Live!    1964    Capitol
Live Session! - with Ernie Andrews    1964    Capitol
Cannonball Adderley's Fiddler on the Roof    1964    Capitol
Domination - with orchestra conducted by Oliver Nelson    1965    Capitol
Money in the Pocket    1966 - released 2005    Capitol
Great Love Themes - with strings conducted by Ray Ellis    1966    Capitol
Mercy, Mercy, Mercy! Live at "The Club"    1966    Capitol
Cannonball in Japan    1966    Capitol
74 Miles Away    1967    Capitol
Why Am I Treated So Bad!    1967    Capitol
In Person - with Lou Rawls and Nancy Wilson    1968    Capitol
Accent on Africa    1968    Capitol
Country Preacher    1969    Capitol
The Cannonball Adderley Quintet & Orchestra    1970    Capitol
Love, Sex, and the Zodiac    1970 - released 1974    Capitol
The Price You Got to Pay to Be Free    1970    Capitol
The Happy People    1970    Capitol
The Black Messiah    1970    Capitol
Music You All    1972 - released 1976    Capitol

Missing the album with Nancy Wilson!!!!!

There's also those weird riverside-Released-As-Capital-Then-Again=As Landmark things, where are they now?

[duaneiac]

3 hours ago, felser said:

Here's what I see out there.  I'm not familiar with a few of these.  Might make sense for two sets, one of the live stuff, another for the studio material.

Cannonball Adderley Live!    1964    Capitol
Live Session! - with Ernie Andrews    1964    Capitol
Cannonball Adderley's Fiddler on the Roof    1964    Capitol
Domination - with orchestra conducted by Oliver Nelson    1965    Capitol
Money in the Pocket    1966 - released 2005    Capitol
Great Love Themes - with strings conducted by Ray Ellis    1966    Capitol
Mercy, Mercy, Mercy! Live at "The Club"    1966    Capitol
Cannonball in Japan    1966    Capitol
74 Miles Away    1967    Capitol
Why Am I Treated So Bad!    1967    Capitol
In Person - with Lou Rawls and Nancy Wilson    1968    Capitol
Accent on Africa    1968    Capitol
Country Preacher    1969    Capitol
The Cannonball Adderley Quintet & Orchestra    1970    Capitol
Love, Sex, and the Zodiac    1970 - released 1974    Capitol
The Price You Got to Pay to Be Free    1970    Capitol
The Happy People    1970    Capitol
The Black Messiah    1970    Capitol
Music You All    1972 - released 1976    Capitol

Plus the instrumental tracks he appeared on on that Nancy Wilson / Cannonball Adderley album.  Did he do any other "co-leader" type albums like that?

How is that Great Love Themes album?  It doesn't sound too promising.

Edited April 8, 2020 by duaneiac

[felser]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Missing the album with Nancy Wilson!!!!!

There's also those weird riverside-Released-As-Capital-Then-Again=As Landmark things, where are they now?

That I know something about.  When Cannonball left Riverside as it was folding, his masters from there got split between him (the Capitol Reissues) and Keepnews (the reissues on Landmark).  Can't speak to what subsequently happened to the Keepnews-held masters.  Seems like some of them later ended up on Capitol after initial reissue on Landmark IIRC.

[JSngry]

At least one (maybe the only one?) was on Capital before it was on Landmark, the record with Sergio Mendes. That's what makes it so weird...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannonball%27s_Bossa_Nova

I think this one even saw an issue on Pickwick!

 

 

1 hour ago, duaneiac said:

How is that Great Love Themes album?  It doesn't sound too promising.

not at all my favorite, kinda my NOT favorite. But it's there anyway.

[mikeweil]

17 hours ago, felser said:

That I know something about.  When Cannonball left Riverside as it was folding, his masters from there got split between him (the Capitol Reissues) and Keepnews (the reissues on Landmark).  Can't speak to what subsequently happened to the Keepnews-held masters.  Seems like some of them later ended up on Capitol after initial reissue on Landmark IIRC.

The Riverside albums Cannonball took to Capitol are the ones reissued on Landmark. Capitol hadn't been doing much with them. The ones remaining on the label were reissued as Original Jazz Classics. The split was the reason Keepnews never attempted a Cannonball box set of the Riverside years.

Edited April 9, 2020 by mikeweil

[felser]

2 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

The Riverside albums Cannonbal took to Capitol are the ones reissued on Landmark. Capitol hadn't been doing much with them. The ones remaining on the label were reissued as Original Jazz Classics. The split was the reason Keepnews never attempted a Cannonball box set of the Riverside years.

Right, thanks.

[JSngry]

But they - Capitol - loved that album with Sergio Mendes, for whatever reason (and I think we all know what that was)

But other than a ragtag compilation or two along the way, did Capital do anything with those other albums?

So then, ok, let's also look at Cannonball outside of just the lens of jazz, let's look at him in terms of business and record company. Captial at the time was notoriously "white"(in overall taste, if not always color, although, Dakota Staton!) in their jazz offerings, with the exception of, at some point Nancy Wilson, Lou Rawls, and Cannonball. And with the exception of Cannonball, none were "hardcore jazz". And yet, all had broad crossover appeal within the various Black Music communities, as well as into some Caucasian ones.

So let's look at how Cannonball kinda moved the bar for Black Music on Captial, to go from Great Love Themes to The Black Messiah...one wonders if Capital fought at all to keep Cannonball...

[medjuck]

41 minutes ago, JSngry said:

But they - Capitol - loved that album with Sergio Mendes, for whatever reason (and I think we all know what that was)

Ahhh. Include me out. What was the reason they loved it?  Commerciality?  

[JSngry]

Coattails. Name recognition. Brasil 65/66/etc was having big hits, Top 10 hits.

[mikeweil]

BTW - the Capitol LP with Nancy Wilson was recorded in 1961 while Cannonball was still under contract with Riverside. Maybe that was a factor in him signing with the label after Riverside's demise. Was there a note on the Wilson LP that Adderley appeared courtesy of Riverside?

[GA Russell]

I had the Cannonball/Mendes shown at the top when I was a senior in high school, and loved it. 

I think I would still love it, except that I became tired of it because I played it so much.

[JSngry]

4 hours ago, mikeweil said:

BTW - the Capitol LP with Nancy Wilson was recorded in 1961 while Cannonball was still under contract with Riverside. Maybe that was a factor in him signing with the label after Riverside's demise. Was there a note on the Wilson LP that Adderley appeared courtesy of Riverside?

Yep, Cannonball & Nat both. Plus Louis Hayes through Vee-Jay.

[jlhoots]

Lots of chit chat about marginal stuff. Better to listen to "important" Cannonball. 

[Late]

21 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

Lots of chit chat about marginal stuff. Better to listen to "important" Cannonball.

[JSngry]

26 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

Lots of chit chat about marginal stuff. Better to listen to "important" Cannonball. 

I know what you think that means. But if that's REALLY what you mean, then even the most "important" Cannonball is marginal.

Really, it is.

[jlhoots]

1 minute ago, JSngry said:

I know what you think that means. But if that's REALLY what you mean, then even the most "important" Cannonball is marginal.

Really, it is.

FWIW, not marginal to me - but I'm just one "listener".

[JSngry]

Just now, jlhoots said:

FWIW, not marginal to me - but I'm just one "listener".

Yeah, well, there you go, margins are defined by what we stay inside of, importance by what drives us to go outside them.

And the proof for each of us, I guess, is how far you go with importance before you run out of a place to put the margins.

For tonight, anyway.

 

I mean, I'm ok with "marginal", the world is round(ish), not flat, it's not like you fall off and get lost to demons and space serpents, it's all there, it wouldn't there be if it wasn't.

[JSngry]

Here, this is not marginal, it's trivial:

Cannonball was never really trivial. the music, maybe, sometimes, sure. But in terms of the business and the overall culture, never trivial, and certainly never marginal.

 

[BFrank]

Reading all your comments, it sure seems like there's a wealth of Cannonball dates (both live and studio) that would make at least a couple of great box sets. If marketed right they would also appeal to a wide range of listeners.

[mikeweil]

Box 1: All the dates for EmArcy and Mercury (and the first for Savoy? including the Kenny Clarke session) (what about the Blue Note with Miles?)

Box 2: Riverside Studio dates (including those he took to Capitol and the Nancy Wilson date)

Box 3: Riverside live dates (including ....)

Box 4: Capitol studio dates

Box 5 Capitol live dates

Keep on dreaming ...... not even the Eurpean cheapo labels would attempt this anymore.

Michael Cuscuna did reissue some of the Capitol recordings, but most were done by others or still are on the shelf. It's a lot of music, even a date with symphony orchestra (half of which was added to the Domination CD reissue). Some live dates are with invited audience (Mercy Mercy Mercy) or even faked. Only a small minority would buy this. Not to mention the great amount of archival research needed.

[jazzbo]

Another hurdle I believe would be that the bulk of the Riverside would probably never appear outside of Concord Releases and I really doubt Concord would consider it (and if so it would likely be vinyl only via Craft Records).

[felser]

All of the pre-Capitol albums are easily obtainable, we only really need the Capitol boxes.

[jazzbo]

2 hours ago, felser said:

All of the pre-Capitol albums are easily obtainable, we only really need the Capitol boxes.

I agree about the availability but you never know what additionally may be found and sonic improvements are always possible and welcome by my system.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by jazzbo

[JSngry]

I'd be happy with a Capitol live/"live": box (and not from Mosaic, really, outside of Cuscuna, I don't think they have anybody on hand right know with the disposition and/or capacity to appreciate what those records were and did in the overall culture). Additionally found material may or may not be a plus (I mean, ok, don't need TOO many versions of "Oh Babe", right? But otoh, more versions of Rumpelstiltskin, Hippodelphia, etc? HELL yeah)).

As for market...not so sure, but I think there is one, still. The "purists" and such are not even a consideration for music like this, but that's kinda the point of what makes it important - the "purists" were never in on this band or this music. They bitched about it then and they will bitch about it now, so, hey...but the cratediggers have long been into this stuff, and there's a whole other non-purist audience that is very much into they type(s) of music that this group did so much of for so long.

So yeah - not Mosaic. but definitely boxable.

Besides, anybody who can listen to the Zawinul-Duke/Booker/McCurdy trio and not feel a stronger-than-strong pocket regardless of "style"...this music is not for them, period.