Cannonball Adderley

[kh1958]

1 hour ago, Late said:

I finally acquired this 1973 album. Wasn't on my radar for ... almost forever.

Orrin Keepnews' notes are (not surprisingly) self-congratulatory, though I thought this was an interesting side note to the "live in the studio" production:

"In any event, food (some magic soul food and even more magical brownies, dished up by Spencer Moore, the urbane chef provided by Cannonball), drink, furnishings and people added up to that word they always use to describe good French restaurants — ambience. It was ambient as all hell in there, and you can hear it, and all of us, on the record."

• Cannonball had his own chef?

• And who are "they" that are always describing French restaurants?

The music is tight and fun. Good grooves. Nothing particularly earth shattering, but it's feel-good music nonetheless — especially significant in a time like this. What a gig this must have been to attend. I think Hal Galper is the X-factor here; his sound (different than Zawinul's or George Duke's) makes the record. And Walter Booker's "Saudade" is one hip composition.

This was one of the first jazz records I ever purchased, probably in 1974. An unpretentious, pleasing record.

[Late]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

For the brownies? Sure!

I wonder if this is the same Spencer Moore, a chef that was active in the Bay Area before moving to Mexico.

According to the book Walk Tall, Moore really was Adderley's personal chef.

I was 3 when this record was made, but I'm glad I was on the planet the same time as Cannonball!

[JSngry]

Might well be the same guy, but even if it was, "magical brownies" pretty much means only one thing...or did...

[Late]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

... "magical brownies" pretty much means only one thing ... or did 

I'm pretty sure it still means the same thing today. Imagine having one of Moore's brownies and then reclining in your chair and digging this album ... LIVE. 1973 is starting to look pretty good about now.

[BFrank]

How come no one has ever put together any sort of Cannonball box set? Especially the OJC stuff. There's so much material out there - and probably lots that's unreleased.

[JSngry]

7 hours ago, BFrank said:

How come no one has ever put together any sort of Cannonball box set? Especially the OJC stuff. There's so much material out there - and probably lots that's unreleased.

What I had once hoped for was a set of complete, unedited, real-time set after set collection of all the Capitol live dates. I realize now that those tapes might not still exist, and that if they did, they would just as likely be structured as a "recording session" as they were a "club date", such was David Axlerod's grasp of what those records "needed" to be.

Still, if there's a repository of non-filtered Cannonball club dates - not concerts, not broadcasts, just show up for the night club dates - from the late-60/early-70s...I know they had their routines, but...might be something to hear, that.

[felser]

 A lot of the late 60's Capitol albums are MIA on CD for some reason.  And stuff like "The Happy People" were only out on CD for a few minutes.

[JSngry]

What about Experience in E, has that ever been on CD at all? That's another one...uneven as a whole, but an essential part of the overall picture.

[Late]

23 minutes ago, JSngry said:

What about Experience in E, has that ever been on CD at all?

Yes, but only in part. The title tune was added to the CD reissue of Domination.

[jazzbo]

You can buy the entire album on MP3 though via amazon. (Not that I did).

[Late]

39 minutes ago, felser said:

 A lot of the late 60's Capitol albums are MIA on CD for some reason.

Yes. Some, as far as I know, were only ever available on the Japanese market in this series.

 

 

[JSngry]

Victims of the Commerciala Virus, imo. Cannonball, Gene Ammons, the list goes on, not indefinitely, but far enough. If not for the Acid Jazz thing, even more would be lost to the landscape.

Bot, not all of it was "great music", but that is not the point. There is a form of cultural genocide at play here, b/c other forms of music can and do pimp their "relevancy to the culture of the times", whereas African-American jazz of both popular and populist bents keeps getting relegated as irrelevant or worse. EVIL, even. So sure, every sorry ass Woodstock band has "iconic" status, whereas who the fuck outside of a few cratediggers (real or honorary) know about Cannonball Adderley having a band that TORE UP clubs for a decade or so playing for audiences of ALL persuasions, not just with Bobby Timmons, but waaaaay past that? A band that Joe Zawinul immodestly but not entirely inaccurately said was hipper than Miles' band of the same time, why are we even having to "discover" that shit like this was not only happening, but happening STRONG?

This is a cultural issue, not a musical one. "Jazz fans" are their own worst enemies sometimes.

[ghost of miles]

16 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Victims of the Commerciala Virus, imo. Cannonball, Gene Ammons, the list goes on, not indefinitely, but far enough. If not for the Acid Jazz thing, even more would be lost to the landscape.

Bot, not all of it was "great music", but that is not the point. There is a form of cultural genocide at play here, b/c other forms of music can and do pimp their "relevancy to the culture of the times", whereas African-American jazz of both popular and populist bents keeps getting relegated as irrelevant or worse. EVIL, even. So sure, every sorry ass Woodstock band has "iconic" status, whereas who the fuck outside of a few cratediggers (real or honorary) know about Cannonball Adderley having a band that TORE UP clubs for a decade or so playing for audiences of ALL persuasions, not just with Bobby Timmons, but waaaaay past that? A band that Joe Zawinul immodestly but not entirely inaccurately said was hipper than Miles' band of the same time, why are we even having to "discover" that shit like this was not only happening, but happening STRONG?

This is a cultural issue, not a musical one. "Jazz fans" are their own worst enemies sometimes.

Amen!  Been contemplating a late-1960s/early 70s Cannonball show for ages... your post might serve as the butane lighter/blowtorch/choose-yer-own-incendiary device that my butt needs to get it going. (also have to track down a couple of recordings mentioned in this thread, but I do have most of the music already at hand).

20 hours ago, Late said:

I finally acquired this 1973 album. Wasn't on my radar for ... almost forever.

Orrin Keepnews' notes are (not surprisingly) self-congratulatory, though I thought this was an interesting side note to the "live in the studio" production:

"In any event, food (some magic soul food and even more magical brownies, dished up by Spencer Moore, the urbane chef provided by Cannonball), drink, furnishings and people added up to that word they always use to describe good French restaurants — ambience. It was ambient as all hell in there, and you can hear it, and all of us, on the record."

• Cannonball had his own chef?

• And who are "they" that are always describing French restaurants?

The music is tight and fun. Good grooves. Nothing particularly earth shattering, but it's feel-good music nonetheless — especially significant in a time like this. What a gig this must have been to attend. I think Hal Galper is the X-factor here; his sound (different than Zawinul's or George Duke's) makes the record. And Walter Booker's "Saudade" is one hip composition.

Can't remember who hipped me to this album many years ago--might even have been an Organissimo poster--but I picked it up and dug it.  Re OK's liner notes, yeeesshhh... I could live the rest of my life without ever reading another set of his self-congratulatory-indeed musings.  (Grateful for the recordings that he produced, yada yada, truly. But also truly put off by the way he writes about them, or as is more the case, about himself.)  How is that Walk Tall biography?  I have it but haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

[felser]

50 minutes ago, JSngry said:

"Jazz fans" are their own worst enemies sometimes.

Agree with what you say in the rest of the post.  Not sure what you mean by this line.  Not disageeing with what you are saying, just not really understanding.  

[Late]

49 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Been contemplating a late-1960s/early 70s Cannonball show for ages ... (also have to track down a couple of recordings mentioned in this thread, but I do have most of the music already at hand).

That is a show I'd tune into for sure. Would you want to include the Nat Adderley recordings from this period as well? Maybe that would be too much to cover.

I predict a niche renaissance for this group in certain cultural pockets during this new decade. 

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

This is a cultural issue, not a musical one.

I wish I could find a picture online to post here, but the backside artwork of the booklet for the 2016 CD reissue of The Price You Got To Pay To Be Free was redesigned from the LP. There's now text that reads:

Recorded "live"
at an open session
for people
interested in
musical history
in the making ...

[JSngry]

22 minutes ago, felser said:

Agree with what you say in the rest of the post.  Not sure what you mean by this line.  Not disageeing with what you are saying, just not really understanding.  

Just that a lot of things happened that some people didn't like, and rather than look at the bigger picture, they shrunk it all down into what they liked, and then created an esthetic/sociology to reflect that.

I repeat myself (hard not to do at this point), but Cannonball, the one time I saw him, 1974, had about as diverse an audience as any gig I've ever seen. Pimps & hos, doctors and ladies, hippies and old folks, EVERYBODY. The notion of the jazz economy having that sort of nexus, where damn near anybody from some point on the spectrum come and get something out of it...we don't have that any more. And part of the reason is that "jazz" got all serious and shit (which of course it is, but...) and people started talking about "Oh Babe" and "Walk Tall" like it was degrading, and OMG, RHODES and shit....ok, good. you fill up Lincoln Center once in a while. What about the rest of the world for the rest of the nights? Concert halls? Clubs where people are shot looks if they dear shout encouragement? Motherfuckers all suited up and sober? WTF kind of jazz is THAT????? The kind that a certain segment of the "jazz fan" base decided was what was needed, apparently. No smoking, no drinking, no thinking of some man in a restaurant, is that what you REALLY want?

I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time, but, you know, people getting wigged out about Robert Glasper and shit like that...long overdue, musically and historically. Open that shit back up from ALL sides.

[HutchFan]

21 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Just that a lot of things happened that some people didn't like, and rather than look at the bigger picture, they shrunk it all down into what they liked, and then created an esthetic/sociology to reflect that.

I repeat myself (hard not to do at this point), but Cannonball, the one time I saw him, 1974, had about as diverse an audience as any gig I've ever seen. Pimps & hos, doctors and ladies, hippies and old folks, EVERYBODY. The notion of the jazz economy having that sort of nexus, where damn near anybody from some point on the spectrum come and get something out of it...we don't have that any more. And part of the reason is that "jazz" got all serious and shit (which of course it is, but...) and people started talking about "Oh Babe" and "Walk Tall" like it was degrading, and OMG, RHODES and shit....ok, good. you fill up Lincoln Center once in a while. What about the rest of the world for the rest of the nights? Concert halls? Clubs where people are shot looks if they dear shout encouragement? Motherfuckers all suited up and sober? WTF kind of jazz is THAT????? The kind that a certain segment of the "jazz fan" base decided was what was needed, apparently. No smoking, no drinking, no thinking of some man in a restaurant, is that what you REALLY want?

I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time, but, you know, people getting wigged out about Robert Glasper and shit like that...long overdue, musically and historically. Open that shit back up from ALL sides.

Yes. 

If I could jump in too...

Thinking about that super-diverse crowd at the Cannonball concert and his broad appeal ...  Part of the reason that rarely (if ever) happens anymore is the responsibility of marketers and segmentation (fragmentation?) of musical genres.  Everything is divided and sub-divided the further sub-divided, so it can be marketed more efficiently.  You see this in every genre. Not just jazz.

... But it's also partly the fault of listeners -- people like me! (in the past) -- who "bought into" those categories (literally and figuratively).  At the most simplistic level it becomes a question of "valid" jazz vs. "not valid" jazz.  ... A subtler form of marketing also happens in the books, magazines, etc., in the process of "jazz canonization." Some music & musicians are in, while other broad swathes are left out -- based on arbitrary and largely formulaic ideas of what constitutes good music. 

My 2 cents.

 

 

[JSngry]

28 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

Yes. 

If I could jump in too...

Thinking about that super-diverse crowd at the Cannonball concert and his broad appeal ...  Part of the reason that rarely (if ever) happens anymore is the responsibility of marketers and segmentation (fragmentation?) of musical genres.  Everything is divided and sub-divided the further sub-divided, so it can be marketed more efficiently.  You see this in every genre. Not just jazz.

... But it's also partly the fault of listeners -- people like me! (in the past) -- who "bought into" those categories (literally and figuratively).  At the most simplistic level it becomes a question of "valid" jazz vs. "not valid" jazz.  ... A subtler form of marketing also happens in the books, magazines, etc., in the process of "jazz canonization." Some music & musicians are in, while other broad swathes are left out -- based on arbitrary and largely formulaic ideas of what constitutes good music. 

My 2 cents.

 

 

Indeed! They go hand in hand. Sellers sell, buyers buy, the businesses of seductions and allowances continues until  the score is made, the deal sealed, the essential bodily fluids extracted, up to and including the blood. In the end, preservation devolves into preservation into...embalming.

Dance With Death indeed...

[gmonahan]

How many cds would it take to do a complete Cannonball Capitol album? Always seemed to me like that kind of Mosaic set would actually sell.

 

 

 

gregmo

[Late]

15 hours ago, gmonahan said:

How many cds would it take to do a Complete Cannonball Capitol album?

I'd guess either 7 or 8, but more if you include the Riverside titles that were brought over to Capitol. If Mosaic can put out Hank (every track but one previously on the U.S. market?), it seems like a Cannonball set (where not all albums saw a U.S. release) would make sense. But I guess Sony doesn't lease out recordings from its archive any more? (Do I have that right?) It would be a fine Mosaic, and I bet there's unreleased material that could be added.

[JSngry]

7-8 if you combine sessions/records, at least that, I'd think. Cannonball was pretty active on Capital pre-Mercy Mercy Mercy as well as after.

As far as what's in the can, I was delighted in both thought, word, AND deed when they released that Money In The Pocket thing. More like that, please!

[gmonahan]

2 hours ago, Late said:

I'd guess either 7 or 8, but more if you include the Riverside titles that were brought over to Capitol. If Mosaic can put out Hank (every track but one previously on the U.S. market?), it seems like a Cannonball set (where not all albums saw a U.S. release) would make sense. But I guess Sony doesn't lease out recordings from its archive any more? (Do I have that right?) It would be a fine Mosaic, and I bet there's unreleased material that could be added.

I think Universal owns the Capitol stuff, doesn't it? I didn't think it was part Sony's holdings, but Lord knows, I can't always keep track of who owns what! If so, a 7-8-cd set would certainly be within Mosaic's usual limits. Many of the Riverside albums have been issued on cut-rate labels like Enlightenment.

 

 

 

gregmo

[felser]

26 minutes ago, gmonahan said:

I think Universal owns the Capitol stuff, doesn't it? I didn't think it was part Sony's holdings, but Lord knows, I can't always keep track of who owns what! If so, a 7-8-cd set would certainly be within Mosaic's usual limits. Many of the Riverside albums have been issued on cut-rate labels like Enlightenment.

 

 

 

gregmo

Here's what I see out there.  I'm not familiar with a few of these.  Might make sense for two sets, one of the live stuff, another for the studio material.

Cannonball Adderley Live!    1964    Capitol
Live Session! - with Ernie Andrews    1964    Capitol
Cannonball Adderley's Fiddler on the Roof    1964    Capitol
Domination - with orchestra conducted by Oliver Nelson    1965    Capitol
Money in the Pocket    1966 - released 2005    Capitol
Great Love Themes - with strings conducted by Ray Ellis    1966    Capitol
Mercy, Mercy, Mercy! Live at "The Club"    1966    Capitol
Cannonball in Japan    1966    Capitol
74 Miles Away    1967    Capitol
Why Am I Treated So Bad!    1967    Capitol
In Person - with Lou Rawls and Nancy Wilson    1968    Capitol
Accent on Africa    1968    Capitol
Country Preacher    1969    Capitol
The Cannonball Adderley Quintet & Orchestra    1970    Capitol
Love, Sex, and the Zodiac    1970 - released 1974    Capitol
The Price You Got to Pay to Be Free    1970    Capitol
The Happy People    1970    Capitol
The Black Messiah    1970    Capitol
Music You All    1972 - released 1976    Capitol

[Late]

37 minutes ago, felser said:

The Happy People    1970    Capitol

That is a title I regret not picking up when it was available in Japan in 2013. Cannonball's solos are burning.

[felser]

4 minutes ago, Late said:

That is a title I regret not picking up when it was available in Japan in 2013. Cannonball's solos are burning.

Same here. I also like Flora Purim on it.