Red Garland on Prestige

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

I'm enjoying the many great responses on this thread. I just recently purchased "Red Garland's Piano" and already own "Groovy" and look forward to seriously beefing up on his catalogue. Alot of the OJC stuff look to be no lose propositions.

Yes, threads like this one always end up costing me money. But it hurts sooooo good......

Here's another chance to make it hurt so good! As has been noted by several posters....a great set indeed. Don't see many around these days. Your Christmas gift to you!

http://cgi.ebay.com/RED-GARLAND-Complete-A...1QQcmdZViewItem

Aw shit Jr - how much more is there on this than on the US 2 CD pack? Has the complete only ever been issued in Japan?

MG

Um, like ....there's like an extra track and it's a K2! ...and has like a pretty bitchin' awesome lookin' box too! You dig?

Edited December 9, 2007 by Son-of-a-Weizen

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm enjoying the many great responses on this thread. I just recently purchased "Red Garland's Piano" and already own "Groovy" and look forward to seriously beefing up on his catalogue. Alot of the OJC stuff look to be no lose propositions.

Yes, threads like this one always end up costing me money. But it hurts sooooo good......

Here's another chance to make it hurt so good! As has been noted by several posters....a great set indeed. Don't see many around these days. Your Christmas gift to you!

http://cgi.ebay.com/RED-GARLAND-Complete-A...1QQcmdZViewItem

Aw shit Jr - how much more is there on this than on the US 2 CD pack? Has the complete only ever been issued in Japan?

MG

Um, like ....there's like an extra track and it's a K2! ...and has like a pretty bitchin' awesome lookin' box too! You dig?

Yeah - I'm really trying to find an excuse not to bid. I've never bid on e-bay before. Mucho trepidation. Just under 2 hours to go.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I've been looking around. This ain't no great bargain, though I did bid, but have been outbid - not prepared to pay more.

But thanks for letting me know.

MG

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

You were outbid????

Worry not Amigo...we'll work on finding you another one @ a better price.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

You were outbid????

Worry not Amigo...we'll work on finding you another one @ a better price.

High postage rates for that one for me limited what I was prepared to bid, considering there's one at Amazon.

MG

[NaturalSoul]

Manteca = my favorite Garland on Prestige.

[NaturalSoul]

Nothing tops the 8 and a half minute intro to Soul Junction.

Missed this.

But yeah! That is out of this fucking world.

[ghost of miles]

Picked up the RVG edition of RED GARLAND'S PIANO last week at Luna in downtown Indy, and it sounds great. Re: the REDISCOVERED MASTERS titles referenced upthread, they're both now OOP but Newbury has 'em cheap (through Amazon Marketplace)...I ordered them both last night and threw in RED ALERT as well (it seems to get mixed reviews, but I couldn't resist the Harold Land/Ira Sullivan twin-tenor front line).

[Shrdlu]

I love all the recordings by the trio with Paul Chambers and Art Taylor - I have all except the session that was only reissued on LP.

Someone put it well when he said that there are many more "important" recordings, but he found himself always coming back to Red's.

It's a tribute to the quality of his playing that you pretty much know what's coming, and there are no surprises, but it just sounds so good. I could listen to him all day.

[Big Al]

I ordered them both last night and threw in RED ALERT as well (it seems to get mixed reviews, but I couldn't resist the Harold Land/Ira Sullivan twin-tenor front line).

Aw man, RED ALERT is a terrific album! Don't understand why anyone wouldn't enjoy it!

[Teasing the Korean]

A previous music teacher of mine, who dropped names like mad and boasted to have worked with everyone, claimed that John Coltrane didn't like Red's playing and that he tried to talk Miles into firing him. Is there any truth to this?

[Big Wheel]

A previous music teacher of mine, who dropped names like mad and boasted to have worked with everyone, claimed that John Coltrane didn't like Red's playing and that he tried to talk Miles into firing him. Is there any truth to this?

Seems unlikely. Why would Trane have then hired him for all of his records on Prestige? Did Bob Weinstock just force him to use that rhythm section?

[Shrdlu]

I agree. Trane used Red over and over again, and his accompaniment was very sympathetic. Surely he liked his playing.

Great though Art Taylor was, I imagine that Trane would have used Philly Joe a lot on the Prestige dates if possible. But the story is that Bob Weinstock didn't like Joe, so he only shows up on the Miles Quintet dates. Obviously that had to be the case.

[Swinging Swede]

It is possible that Coltrane later found Garland unsuitable for the new directions he was taking. He didn't use him on any session after 1958, for example. However, Garland recorded with Coltrane for Prestige after he had quit Miles's group, so the chronology of the music teacher's claim seems off in any case.

[paul secor]

I wonder if it was more a case of Bob Weinstock finding Philly Joe unreliable rather than not liking him or his playing. Then again, Red Garland supposedly had "personal problems", so who knows?

[ghost of miles]

A previous music teacher of mine, who dropped names like mad and boasted to have worked with everyone, claimed that John Coltrane didn't like Red's playing and that he tried to talk Miles into firing him. Is there any truth to this?

TTK, I'll try to post your query to the Coltrane listserv--sounds kind of far-fetched to me, though, given how much Coltrane and Garland recorded together in 1957 (even though they were on the same label, I have a hard time imagining JC working that frequently with somebody he'd tried to get fired...which also doesn't sound very JC-ish to me).

[Shrdlu]

It is possible that Coltrane later found Garland unsuitable for the new directions he was taking. He didn't use him on any session after 1958, for example.

That is definitely true, both for Trane and Miles. They had both gone as far as they could with Red.

[ghost of miles]

It is possible that Coltrane later found Garland unsuitable for the new directions he was taking. He didn't use him on any session after 1958, for example.

That is definitely true, both for Trane and Miles. They had both gone as far as they could with Red.

I think that's definitely true, no doubt about that--but the original story seems to be referring to the 1955-57 period--a period in which Coltrane himself was fired twice by Miles, iirc.

I've posted the claim to the Coltrane listserv, and so far it's been met with great skepticism from David Wild and a couple of others, but no substantiation for or against. And I think there's a difference between moving on, as Trane did after 1958, and actively disliking somebody's playing so much that you'd try to get them fired--especially while you yourself are struggling so mightily with your own demons that you're unable to hold down your own position in the band. And then turning around and recording so prolifically with said player!

[WorldB3]

Lots of great recs here! I only have all of Red's stuff with Miles, Training In and Dig It.

Will be pick up All Mornin' Long and All Kinds Of Weather asap. Soul Junction and At the Prelude sometime after that..

[Teasing the Korean]

It is possible that Coltrane later found Garland unsuitable for the new directions he was taking. He didn't use him on any session after 1958, for example.

That is definitely true, both for Trane and Miles. They had both gone as far as they could with Red.

I think that's definitely true, no doubt about that--but the original story seems to be referring to the 1955-57 period--a period in which Coltrane himself was fired twice by Miles, iirc.

I've posted the claim to the Coltrane listserv, and so far it's been met with great skepticism from David Wild and a couple of others, but no substantiation for or against. And I think there's a difference between moving on, as Trane did after 1958, and actively disliking somebody's playing so much that you'd try to get them fired--especially while you yourself are struggling so mightily with your own demons that you're unable to hold down your own position in the band. And then turning around and recording so prolifically with said player!

Thanks. I assumed as much based on other outrageous claims said teacher made on a regular basis - "Only those few of us who were close to the group members actually knew ... blah blah blah."

[papsrus]

Lots of great recs here! I only have all of Red's stuff with Miles, Training In and Dig It.

Will be pick up All Mornin' Long and All Kinds Of Weather asap. Soul Junction and At the Prelude sometime after that..

I've been snagging some Garland titles lately and fwiw, I'd go with Soul Junction before Weather, which is nice, but Soul is just more dynamic, with Trane and Byrd. For trios, I preferred Red Garland's Piano and Red in Bluesville over All Kinds of Weather, but YMMV. Don't know Prelude, but will check it out.

[ghost of miles]

AT THE PRELUDE is the trio live in '59. Was out as a 3-CD set in Japan, reissued as a 2-CD set (w/1 extra track) in the U.S. by Concord.

No rational reason for this, but ALL MORNIN' LONG is one of my favorite jazz LP covers of the 1950s. I always used to stop and gaze at it while flipping through the Fantasy catalogue (RIP ):

Edited August 20, 2009 by ghost of miles

[John L]

It is possible that Coltrane later found Garland unsuitable for the new directions he was taking. He didn't use him on any session after 1958, for example.

That is definitely true, both for Trane and Miles. They had both gone as far as they could with Red.

I think that's definitely true, no doubt about that--but the original story seems to be referring to the 1955-57 period--a period in which Coltrane himself was fired twice by Miles, iirc.

I've posted the claim to the Coltrane listserv, and so far it's been met with great skepticism from David Wild and a couple of others, but no substantiation for or against. And I think there's a difference between moving on, as Trane did after 1958, and actively disliking somebody's playing so much that you'd try to get them fired--especially while you yourself are struggling so mightily with your own demons that you're unable to hold down your own position in the band. And then turning around and recording so prolifically with said player!

By the time Trane formed his first band in 59-60, many would suggest that he had already moved "beyond" Red Garland and the like. Yet, it is interesting that he tried (unsuccessfully) to hire Lee Morgan for that band, and DID hire Wes Montgomery in 61.

[WorldB3]

Lots of great recs here! I only have all of Red's stuff with Miles, Training In and Dig It.

Will be pick up All Mornin' Long and All Kinds Of Weather asap. Soul Junction and At the Prelude sometime after that..

I've been snagging some Garland titles lately and fwiw, I'd go with Soul Junction before Weather, which is nice, but Soul is just more dynamic, with Trane and Byrd. For trios, I preferred Red Garland's Piano and Red in Bluesville over All Kinds of Weather, but YMMV. Don't know Prelude, but will check it out.

Soul Junction is definitely on the to get list, will probably hunt that one down on vinyl and try the others off emusic. thanks for the tip.

Edited August 20, 2009 by WorldB3

[ghost of miles]

Newbury Comics has the 20-bit K2 version of ALL MORNIN' LONG for $3.99 right now, through Amazon Marketplace. ($7 when you throw in the shipping.) I already have it as a part of the Coltrane Prestige box, but what the heck--I like the K2 series & the album & love the cover, so for that price I went ahead and ordered it.