Soul Stream

1965 Downbeat Reader's Poll Best Organist

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The 1967 DB Readers Poll Organists category:

1- Jimmy Smith... 3,509

2- Groove Holmes... 458

3- Shirley Scott... 339

4- Larry Young... 279

5- Don Patterson... 176

6- Count Basie... 115

7- Jack McDuff... 110

8- Clare Fischer... 107

9- Wild Bill Davis... 94

10- John Patton... 65

11- Walter Wanderley... 64

12- Ray Charles... 55

13- Lonnie Smith... 47

14- Earl Grant... 43

15- Jimmy McGriff... 37

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The 1968 DB Readers Poll Organists category:

1- Jimmy Smith... 3,891

2- Larry Young... 435

3- Richard Holmes... 282

4- Shirley Scott... 253

5- Jack McDuff... 147

6- Count Basie... 143

7- Don Patterson... 120

8- Al Kooper... 99

9- Lonnie Smith... 84

10- Jimmy McGriff... 70

11- Wild Bill Davis... 67

12- Ray Charles... 62

13- Clare Fischer... 52

14- Earl Grant... 48

15- Walt Wanderley... 39

16- Ray Manzareck... 38

17- John Patton... 31

18- Odell Brown... 30

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Who finally knocked JOS off his run of DB organ championships?

If I had to guess, I'd say Joey D.

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GREAT to see Larry Young all the way up in second place in '68.

Very nice to see. icon12.gif

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Thanks everyone! I'm posting these results in the JP Blog on MySpace. If you find anymore, I'd appreciate it. Looks like Patton's dropping fast and might not even make the list after 1968. Hell, he was beaten out by Ray Manzerek~! <_<

Hard to believe Patton placed so low in what was his most creative and visible years of music making....

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who cares, jazz polls are completely phony. the inflated #'s between the #1 and 2 spot- look at that. jimmy smith is not nearly as good as 1/2 of that list

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I think it's interesting that in 1968, Al Kooper and Ray Manzarek were the favorite rock organists among jazz listeners.

Guy

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Still wondered if anyone could find the organ listing for '69 and '70. Seems to me like Lonnie Smith actually won the reader's poll in 69.... Jimmy reigned the critics poll I think forever until Joey knocked him off...

lonnie1.jpg

Edited by Soul Stream

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Lonnie won the "talent deserving of wider recognition" in the DB Critics Poll that year.

1969 Down Beat Readers Poll.

JOS 2595

Larry Young 554

Groove Holmes 249

Shirley Scott 163

Al Cooper 150

Wild Bill Davis 144

Don Patterson 122

Jack McDuff 116

Brian Auger 91

Steve Winwood 79

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GREAT to see Larry Young all the way up in second place in '68.

Very nice to see. icon12.gif

Yeah, with a whopping 435 votes...

Still that kicks BJP's 31 votes in the nads with a steel-toed boot.

In a nation of millions +, the two of them garnered less than 500 votes. I know it's a niche market and that nobody who was serious about the music took the poll seriously as anything other than a career boost and all that, but damn, my kids' high school graduating classes each had/will have more than 500 people...

Edited by JSngry

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who cares, jazz polls are completely phony. the inflated #'s between the #1 and 2 spot- look at that. jimmy smith is not nearly as good as 1/2 of that list

As if I needed any more proof that you don't know what you're talking about....

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Lonnie won the "talent deserving of wider recognition" in the DB Critics Poll that year.

1969 Down Beat Readers Poll.

JOS 2595

Larry Young 554

Groove Holmes 249

Shirley Scott 163

Al Cooper 150

Wild Bill Davis 144

Don Patterson 122

Jack McDuff 116

Brian Auger 91

Steve Winwood 79

Thanks Chuck! Being the BJP fan that I am, it's devestating to me to see than he didn't even show up in the '69 poll. At this point, That Certain Feeling was certainly had made it's mark....clearly it didn't make an impression which is amazing. I consider that LP one of the greatest organ records of all time. Luckily, history has shown he was much more deserving than this poll indicates.

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Lonnie won the "talent deserving of wider recognition" in the DB Critics Poll that year.

That's funny about the banner then...a little 'selective' marketing campaign by Lonnie's management or bn i guess.

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Lonnie won the "talent deserving of wider recognition" in the DB Critics Poll that year.

1969 Down Beat Readers Poll.

JOS 2595

Larry Young 554

Groove Holmes 249

Shirley Scott 163

Al Cooper 150

Wild Bill Davis 144

Don Patterson 122

Jack McDuff 116

Brian Auger 91

Steve Winwood 79

Interesting, for Winwood and Auger's appearances.

Guy

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Thanks for the research guys.

It's clear, from the case of Groove Holmes, that having hits definitely helped. He put 4 LPs onto the charts in '66.

The amazing thing about that run of polls is how consistently well Don Patterson did (and his only hit LP was "Holiday Soul" at Christmas '67). Same goes for Shirley, with no hit albums, though working with Stanley, she would always have been before the public.

Can't agree with SoulStream's view that the domination of JOS arose from the quality of his output at the time. These are his hit LPs over the period:

THE MONSTER

ORGAN GRINDER SWING

GOT MY MOJO WORKIN'

HOOCHIE COOCHIE MAN

BUCKET

CHRISTMAS COOKIN' (reissue of "Christmas '64")

DYNAMIC DUO

RESPECT

BEST OF JIMMY SMITH

JIMMY SMITH'S GREATEST HITS

LIVIN' IT UP

STAY LOOSE (R&B chart only)

THE BOSS

While some of those are damn fine albums...

Back after I've emptied the dishwasher....

MG

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The 1968 DB Readers Poll Organists category:

1- Jimmy Smith... 3,891

2- Larry Young... 435

3- Richard Holmes... 282

4- Shirley Scott... 253

1969 Down Beat Readers Poll.

JOS 2595

Larry Young 554

Groove Holmes 249

Shirley Scott 163

given the numbers of votes the others had it is amazing how many votes JOS lost from 1968 to 1969... (maybe numbers need to be adjusted with the total number of votes in that year... still)

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By and large, whoever said that the domination of the poll by JOS was because he was the only guy most people had heard of was about right. In some other thread, there's some stuff about Down Beat critics and their reviews of organ records. Jimmy Smith was about the only one to get consistent praise. Worse, every other organist was considered but a poor imitation of JOS.

It was attitudes like that that kept me away from reading Down Beat and other jazz magazines.

The appearance of people like Basie, Grant and Fischer and so on, and the high rating for Larry Young, reflect Down Beat's customer base. Don't forget that most of the organists we recognise as masters today played either solely or mainly for black customers. The organ rooms of Newark, Philly, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Baltimore etc etc were not frequented by Down Beat readers; their customers were local people, getting in a bit of relaxation after a poorly paid, hard, hard, day's grind, for not very much money. The no cover, no minimum policies of these rooms, and the music the organ bands played, met those needs perfectly. But not the needs of the more typical "jazz fan" or critic, who, apart from Hobsbawm, don't seem to have been very well attuned to the working class.

MG

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Can't agree with SoulStream's view that the domination of JOS arose from the quality of his output at the time. These are his hit LPs over the period:

THE MONSTER

ORGAN GRINDER SWING

GOT MY MOJO WORKIN'

HOOCHIE COOCHIE MAN

BUCKET

CHRISTMAS COOKIN' (reissue of "Christmas '64")

DYNAMIC DUO

RESPECT

BEST OF JIMMY SMITH

JIMMY SMITH'S GREATEST HITS

LIVIN' IT UP

STAY LOOSE (R&B chart only)

THE BOSS

While some of those are damn fine albums...

Back after I've emptied the dishwasher....

MG

Hey MG....I didn't ever say that. Was it Jim? However, I think JOS' domination in the reader's poll is well deserved. Without Jimmy, there would not have been a Larry or Shirley, Don or Jack. So yeah, I give it up to Jimmy with respect. Also, The Dynamic Duo and The Boss are two of his greatest musical statements imho.

But back to the results. It's clear there's just some knucklehead voting going on. I'd like to see the critic's poll if there is one for organists at that time. And yeah Chewy...Accent On The Blues and Christmas Cooking are two of the finest organ records of all time!

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The appearance of people like Basie, Grant and Fischer and so on, and the high rating for Larry Young, reflect Down Beat's customer base. Don't forget that most of the organists we recognise as masters today played either solely or mainly for black customers. The organ rooms of Newark, Philly, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Baltimore etc etc were not frequented by Down Beat readers; their customers were local people, getting in a bit of relaxation after a poorly paid, hard, hard, day's grind, for not very much money. The no cover, no minimum policies of these rooms, and the music the organ bands played, met those needs perfectly. But not the needs of the more typical "jazz fan" or critic, who, apart from Hobsbawm, don't seem to have been very well attuned to the working class.

MG

Nice insights MG. The more I become aware of the working conditions of organ groups in the 60's, the more amazed I am at the ART that came out of some of these artists. John Patton was playing Coltrane-influenced music to working class folks who wanted to hear the bluuuuueeees. He paid a price for that. Read the bio on the JP Myspace blog. He and Grant went seperate ways basically because Grant wanted to keep the clubowners and audience happy and Patton wanted to make a different statement. Hell, JP was working a guitar-less trio with Harold Alexander screeching his ass off! How do you think that went down in clubs?! It didn't, as JP said...clubowners thought the band was going to far out and work became scarce. Guys like Patton and Young in particular were not giving the organ audience what they wanted. As Patton said, Larry Young had a place to play his experimentations since his father owned an organ room in Newark. Patton's trio was up there in Dashikis playing far reaching music...not the norm at that time.

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Hey MG....I didn't ever say that.

Sorry, it was back at the beginning of the thread and I didn't go back to check.

However, I think JOS' domination in the reader's poll is well deserved.

Oh yes, there's no denying that. But -

to THAT extent? - 10 times more votes than the #2s? and

based on his hits from '65-'69?

I don't think so. Jimmy was definitely hyped to modern jazz fans as THE only organist worthy of consideration. (Actually, that put me off him for a good few years - but also enabled me to explore others, which definitely wasn't a waste of time.)

MG

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