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Kippie Moeketse


jazz1

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I've discovered Kippie's Moeketse music through a friend of mine.

He was the alto player in Chris Mc Gregor Brotherhood of breath

Also played with the "Jazz Epistles" in the sixties. alto and clarinet.

I believe he did a recording with Abdullah Ibrahim.

From the little I've managed to buy, this guy was a knock out,

I am trying to obtain more info and music.

Surfing the web, I did not find much available, can anybody help???

What, where etc.

Thanks :-)

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I love those early Abdullah Ibrahim recordings! What I have is a CD (by Ibrahim) called "African Sun", which is one of four (?) Ibrahim albums released in the late eighties by Kaz Records. I have CDRs of two more of these, and a CDR of a compilation called "African Horns" featuring tracks by Ibrahim, Moeketsi, Barney Rachabane (two tracks, they include Bheki on piano).

Those CDs were annotated pretty crappy. The only dates included are those of release/printing.The following is the info I get from the CDs:

African Sun (Kaz CD 102)

( A ) Ibrahim, p; Moeketsi, as; Victor Ntomo, b; Nelson Magwaza, d. 1971 Soultown Records

AFRICAN SUN

BRA JOE FROM KILIMANJARO

ROLLING

MEMORIES OF YOU (yeah, the standard by Blake-Razaf! and what a beautiful rendition!)

( B ) Ibrahim, p; Dennis Mpale, t; Barney Rachabane, as; Basil Coetzee, ts; Duku Makasi, ts; Sipho Gumede, b; Peter Morake, d. 1975 Sun Records

SATHIMA

( C ) Ibrahim, p; Rachabane, as; Basil Moses, b; Gilbert Mathews, d. 1975 Gallo

AFRICAN HERBS

( D ) Ibrahim, p; Rachabane, as; Victor Ntoni, b; Timmy Kwebulana, d. 1977 Gallo

NOBODY KNOWS THE TROUBLE I'VE SEEN (Trad.)

( E ) Ibrahim, p; Robbie Jansen, as; Basil Coetzee, ts; Paul Michaels, b; Monty Webber, d. 1977 Gallo

BLUES FOR B

( F ) Ibrahim solo (wrongly annotated as a sextet track). Prob. 1977 Gallo

GWIDZA

( G ) Ibrahim, p; Coetzee, ts; Moses, b; Mathews, d. 1979 Gallo

KAMALIE

African Horns (Kaz CD 8)

(This gives no release years & companies)

( A ) Ibrahim, cello; Coetzee, ts; Gumede, b; Mathews, d

NEXT STEP SOWETO

( B ) Moeketsi, as; Dennis Philips, as; Coetzee, ts; Pat Matshikiza, p; Alex Khaoli, b; Sipho Mabuse, d

TSHONA (Matshikiza)

( C ) Ibrahim, p; Coetzee, ts; Moses, b; Webber, d

BLACK AND BROWN CHERRIES

( D ) Barney Rachabane, as; Bheki, p; Gumede, b; Mathews, d

TEGENI (Rachabane)

( E ) Ibrahim, p; Robbie Jansen, as; Coetzee, ts, Michaels, b; Webber, d

MSUNDUZA

( F ) Rachabane, as; Duku Makasi, ts, Bheki, p, Gumede, b; Mathews, d

MAFUTA (Rachabane)

Voice of Africa (Kaz CD 101)

( A ) Ibrahim, p; Moeketsi, as; Coetzee, ts; Makasi, ts; Gumede, b; Mathews, d. Ekapa 1976

BLACK LIGHTNING

LITTLE BOY

BLACK AND BROWN CHERRIES

( B ) Ibrahim, p; Coetzee, ts; Moses, b; Weber(aka Webber), d. Ekapa 1977

This could be the same session as ( C ) from "African Horns"

NTYILO NTYILO (Davashe, arr. Ibrahim)

( C ) Ibrahim, p; Jansen, as/fl; Coetzee, ts/fl; Michaels, b; Weber (aka Webber), d. Gallo 1977

This could be the same session as ( E ) from "African Horns" and ( E ) from "African Sun"

MANNENBERG IS WHERE IT'S HAPPENING (CAPE TOWN FRINGE)

THE PILGRIM

Tintinyana (Kaz CD103)

( A ) Ibrahim, p; Mpale, t; Rachabane, as; Coetzee, ts; Makasi, ts; Gumede, b; Morake, d. 1975 Gallo

This is possibly the same session as ( B ) from "African Sun"

SOWETO'S WHERE IT'S AT

( B ) Ibrahim, p; Ntoni, b; Nelson Magwaza, d. Gallo 1971

TINTINYANA

JUST A SONG (D. Mason)

LITTLE BOY

SHRIMP BOATS (Howard-Weston)

SALAAM

CHERRY

( C ) Ibrahim, p; Blue Mitchell, t; Buster Cooper, tb; Harold Land, ts; Basil Coetzee, ts; Lionel Beukes, b; Doug Sydes, d. Gallo 1979

BRA JOE FROM KILIMANJARO

Blues For A Hip King (prob. Kaz CD104)

( A ) Ibrahim, p; Moeketsi, as; Coetzee, ts/fl; Makasi, ts; Gumede, b; Mathews, d. Gallo 1976

Maybe same session as ( A ) from "Voice of Africa", though dates do not correspond.

BLUE MONK (Thelonious Monk)

( B ) Ibrahim, p; Robbie Jansen, as; Coetzee, ts; Arthur Jacobs, ts; Lionel Beukes, b; Nazier Kapdi, d. Gallo 1974

ORNETTE'S CORNET

ALL DAY & ALL NIGHT LONG

( C ) Ibrahim, p; Blue Mitchell, t/flh; Buster Cooper, tb; Coetzee, ts/fl; Beukes, b; Doug Sydes, d. prob. also Harold Land, ts. Gallo 1976

This is probably the same session as ( C ) from "Tintinyana", though the dates do not correspond; Land is mentioned in the liner notes, I have not yet listened to the disc.

SWEET BASIL BLUES

TSAKWE HERE COMES THE POSTMAN

BLUES FOR A HIP KING

( D ) Ibrahim, p; Victor Ntoni, b; Makaya Ntshoko, d. Gallo 1979

BLUES FOR B

MYSTERIOSO (sic) (Thelonious Monk)

JUST YOU JUST ME (Green)

ECCLIPSE AT DAWN

KING KONG (Matshikiza)

KHUMBULA JANE (Davashe, arr. Ibrahim)

Jazz In Africa Volume Two (Kaz CD 28)

( A ) Kippie Moeketsi, as; Dennis Phillips, as (#1 only); Basil Coetzee, ts; Pat Matshikiza, p; Alec Khaoli, b; Sipho Mabuse, d. (originally released under Moeketsi's name as "Tshona", recorded mid-seventies)

TSHONA (Matshikiza)

STOP AND START (Matshikiza)

UMGABABA (Moeketsi)

KIPPIE'S PRAYER (Moeketsi)

Tshona is identical with the same tune on "African Horns"

( B ) Barney Rachabane, ts; Basil Coetzee, ts; Duke Makasi, ts; Tete Mbambisa, p; Sipho Gumede, b; Gilbert Matthews, d

AFRICAN DAY (Trad.)

( C ) Robbie Jansen, as/fl; Basil Coetzee ts/fl; Arthur Jacobs, ts/fl; Abdullah Ibrahim, p; Lionel Beukes, b; Nazier Kapdi, d (session led by Ibrahim)

KALAHARI

(All compositions by Ibrahim, unless noted otherwise)

While Ibrahim is generally quite in the background on these sessions, the saxophone players are uniformly excellent, in my opinion (though it's several years ago that I listened to this music for the last time - gotta check it out again soon!). Moeketis and Coetzee being my favorites.

Hope this helps, don't know about correctness of the above data, however!

Edit, 9/24/03: added details of Blues For A Hip King (which I just received in its Camden release from 1998)

Edit, 10/2/03: added details of Jazz in Africa Volume Two (Kaz CD 28)

ubu

Edited by king ubu
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I worked in the Math Dept at the University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, from 1972 through 1976.

There was a surprisingly good jazz scene in Jo'burg back in those days, and my policy was, of course, to play with anyone, no matter what their color. (I was not entirely popular with the Suid-Afrikaanse Polisie, but that was their problem, and I was never arrested, though it came close once at a blowing session in Soweto.)

Anyway, in those days, there were "blows" on the university campus on Sunday afternoons, and I got to play with just about all of the best black jazz musicians except the legendary tenor Winston Mankuku, who was terrific by the way. Dollar Brand, as he was actually known to the players there, was already long gone, though I did play with his former bassist and drummer. Victor Ntoni and Barney Rachabane were regulars at these blows, but I don't recall ever meeting or hearing of any of the other names in the discography posted by King.

Kippie turned up at several of those blows, and he was real nice to play with. He played piano, as well as alto. He had been seriously beaten up several years earlier (including a head injury), and I was told that he was no longer in his prime by the time that I met him.

I can vividly remember the time he made me learn one of his compositions. I had not heard it, and there was no chart, so he went through it over and over on the piano, and pushed me through it on alto. I still know the tune, but not its name, and I can't write out the "dots" in this post, otherwise I would place it here with the changes.

That's a treasured memory.

There were also some superb white jazz musicians, such as Stan Jones (from London, England), a world-class pianist, Johnny Fourie, a guitarist as good as McLaughlin, and Tony Moore, a very lively hard-bop drummer.

We also got visits by American musicians, such as Teddy Wilson, Monk Montgomery, Stan Getz, Herb Ellis and Blue Mitchell.

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Fascinating, Shrdlu! Absolutely fascinating. That must have been such an amazing experience!

I have a dynamite BMG CD of the original Jazz Epistles recordings from 1959, featuring Kippie Moeketsi all the way through (together with Abdullah Ibrahim, Hugh Masekela, and Jonas Gwangwa).

"Jazz in Africa: Volume 1" Camden CDN 1004, 1998 (BMG UK and Ireland)

f88262p4mxj.jpg

Edited by John L
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I got to play with just about all of the best black jazz musicians except the legendary tenor Winston Mankuku, who was terrific by the way

There were also some superb white jazz musicians, such as Johnny Fourie, a guitarist as good as McLaughlin,

.

I thought that you maybe interested to hear that both Wynston and Johny are still around playing great jazz, actually Johny Fourie just released a very nice cd.

I saw Wynston a few months ago, exactly the same as ever, a great jazzman

Unfortunately for them they never went and try there luck in the USA or Europe

Like Abdullah Ibrahim, Hugh Masekela and others.

We the listeners where the lucky ones.

Most of the guys that went in exiles are back, but I still think that the seventies,

and I am sure the sixties where the best years for jazz in SA.

In the last 3 years I watched a new talent develop, his name is James Scofield,

plays electric guitar, this guys is world class, totally dedicated, lots of passion and a natural, unfortunately for us, he left the country earlier this year to try his luck in Europe where I believe he is doing very well.

Remember this name

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Fascinating, Shrdlu! Absolutely fascinating. That must have been such an amazing experience!

I have a dynamite BMG CD of the original Jazz Epistles recordings from 1959, featuring Kippie Moeketsi all the way through (together with Abdullah Ibrahim, Hugh Masekela, and Jonas Gwangwa).

Yes what a fantastic time it must have been.

Surely this would be the ideal plot for a good jazz movie, after all

“The jazz epistle” are relatively little known around the world and they made some of the best jazz of it’s time, and all the people involved had a really interesting life..

I think that I have the same cd as yours but just with a different cover.

It is called Jazz Epistle Verse 1

It starts with “Dollar’s mood” and end with “Scullery department”

I imagine that the number “I remember Billy” is dedicated to Billy Strayhorn”

Jeez jazz does not get much better than that, and Kippie’s alto, just magic.

Now let’s hope that there is a Verse 2 and that I can find it

I also found another double cd titled “jazz in Africa’

It features the same musicians except that Gene Latimore is on drums and Claude Shange on bass, also good but not in the same league as the above.

I bought a few compilations featuring Kippie, but I must really look for the Kaz recordings, especially “African sun”.

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Hope this helps, don't know about correctness of the above data, however!

ubu

Wow, I don't know how to thank you for all this work, just shows you everything is possible, now I just have to try to obtain some of these.

Thanks a million

No problem! Those CDs are annotated so scrappily, and now I can always go to my favorite BB and there everything is in one place :)

There are two more Kaz CDs by Dollar Brand, one called "The Mountain", and one called "Blues for a Hip King" (though I fear that one was not composed for my dear king ubu...). I have never had or seen them. Anyone knows more about them?

Then, my comment on Ibrahim's piano not being that important: I have to correct that. There's one p-solo track (on "African Sun" - the one wrongly annotated as a group track in the CD's booklet), and "Tintinyana" is mostly a trio affair (though that jam with Blue Mitchell, Buster Cooper and Harold Land is quite a lengthy thing).

Then yesterday, I gave a spin to "Voice of Africa". First time since at least 3 years. Wonderful stuff! Kippie and Mannenberg (that is Basil Coetzee) are two real, I mean REAL good saxophone players. They have that cry, so much soul, and those "african horns" playin' together get such a nice (and non-western) sound! I love it!

Then, I also never had the Jazz Epistles discs (yes, I remember there bein two of them). I will have to look for them, too.

And a general comment about South Africa in the sixties and seventies - though I was born only at the close end of the later decade... as a historian (or rather: as someone working to become a historian), I have some sort of sensibility, which somehow denies ZA of the apartheid being called "a fantastic time" - I mean, jazzwise or jive-wise it may have been just that, but I'd try to be a little bit catious in chosing my words.

---end of rant! no harm to be taken, just my two cents.

ubu

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And AMG only lists the Jazz Epistles Vol. 1 - so I don't know if there actually were two volumes, or if the second maybe was only planned.

ubu

I was listening to the Jazz epistles cd this morning.

Jeez... what great music,, Kippie's sound a mix of Parker/Pepper/Hodges.

he is unbelievable.

Dollar Brand what can I say HIS individual sound was starting to appear.

To me this cd should be in any serious jazz fan collection, a forgotten treasure, a classic, most ptobably the greatest jazz cd to come out of Africa at the time.

And the recording is pretty good too.

Now I just got to find out about Vol 2

jazz1 :D

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Just listening to the Jazz Epistles disc! It arrived this morning. Wonderful music! Though the later encounters of Brand/Moeketsi somehow strike me as riper, more individual.

The CD I have now is the Camden reissue (1998), not the Kaz one (that would be from the late eighties, if it really came out on Kaz, too).

No personnel and date is given. Is the following correct:

Hugh Masekela t

Jonas Gwangwa tb

Kippie Moeketsi as

Dollar Brand p

Johnny Gertze b

Makaya Ntshoko d

And the date? September 195? (September is mentioned in the liners, but no year is given)

Are the 14 tracks all from one date? Is this the complete output of the band? In the liners, an album released shortly after recording is mentioned - this would surely not have included all the music (72'28" is what my disc has) of the CD?

Were there two albums and something left off from the CD?

Then AMG helped re. "Jazz in Africa Volume Two" (though not too much help):

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A3b6tk6axqkr0

So this is a Moeketsi disc, not a Jazz Epistles one (the liners of my CD - written by Donald McRae - make believe that Volume 1 DOES indeed include the WHOLE output of the Epistles).

Amazon lists it as available, too:

Amazon, Jazz In Africa Volume Two

And here's the cover:

B0000250ML.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I wonder if this is something similar to the "African Horns" CD (of which the discographical info can be found in one of my previous posts.)?

ubu

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The Kaz CDs I've found to be extremely scarce in the U.S...I've only seen a few of them in a store in Berkeley, CA, once. However, I was once fortunate enough to work out a CD-R trade with a fellow BN BB member and received all of the Kaz Ibrahim CDs listed above...they are superb, truly a remarkable body of work and one that is worthy of a much nicer, better annotated collection (as the Penguin Guide guys point out, the Kaz CDs are EXTREMELY sketchy on details and sometimes contain flat out inaccuracies). I doubt we'd ever see it but it would be nice if someone like Mosaic would give proper tribute to Ibrahim's glory period.

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The Kaz CDs I've found to be extremely scarce in the U.S...I've only seen a few of them in a store in Berkeley, CA, once. However, I was once fortunate enough to work out a CD-R trade with a fellow BN BB member and received all of the Kaz Ibrahim CDs listed above...they are superb, truly a remarkable body of work and one that is worthy of a much nicer, better annotated collection (as the Penguin Guide guys point out, the Kaz CDs are EXTREMELY sketchy on details and sometimes contain flat out inaccuracies). I doubt we'd ever see it but it would be nice if someone like Mosaic would give proper tribute to Ibrahim's glory period.

DrJ: If you have all of the above, you are missing one called "Blues For A Hip King" - I just today received shipping confirmation for that one from amazon.com. Try it there!

I don't really know, but it seems the Camden discs are sonically superior (I'm no sound fetishist, however) to the Kaz discs. In the Jazz Epistles disc (from 1998) it says "These recordings have been restored and remastered, where possible, to the original standard." - Sounds good, maybe though it's just plain nonsense?

And do you have the Jazz in Africa Volume 2? If so, could you please type out the track list and more importantly the musicians & session dates for me? (PM me or post it here please! Would be happy to know what exactly is on this disc!)

Then: do you happen to see some mistakes (you know of) in my discography posted early in this thread? If so, please PM or post them, so I'll go and correct it!

thanks,

ubu

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Just listening to the Jazz Epistles disc! It arrived this morning. Wonderful music! Though the later encounters of Brand/Moeketsi somehow strike me as riper, more individual.

The CD I have now is the Camden reissue (1998), not the Kaz one (that would be from the late eighties, if it really came out on Kaz, too).

No personnel and date is given. Is the following correct:

Hugh Masekela t

Jonas Gwangwa tb

Kippie Moeketsi as

Dollar Brand p

Johnny Gertze b

Makaya Ntshoko d

And the date? September 195? (September is mentioned in the liners, but no year is given)

Are the 14 tracks all from one date? Is this the complete output of the band? In the liners, an album released shortly after recording is mentioned - this would surely not have included all the music (72'28" is what my disc has) of the CD?

Were there two albums and something left off from the CD?

Then AMG helped re. "Jazz in Africa Volume Two" (though not too much help):

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A3b6tk6axqkr0

So this is a Moeketsi disc, not a Jazz Epistles one (the liners of my CD - written by Donald McRae - make believe that Volume 1 DOES indeed include the WHOLE output of the Epistles).

Amazon lists it as available, too:

Amazon, Jazz In Africa Volume Two

And here's the cover:

B0000250ML.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I wonder if this is something similar to the "African Horns" CD (of which the discographical info can be found in one of my previous posts.)?

ubu

up!

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This is a story I have kept to myself for more than forty years.. because no one would be really interested, except maybe now this astute group. I grew up in Cape Town, and became an ardent jazz fan by the mid fifties ... when there really wasn't that much jazz around, but the scene began to bloom, and many a grand night was spent at Dave's Jazz Club on the weekends. I found it hard to understand why my parents were so reluctant to let me as a 15 year old stay out until 2 a.m. when the music just started grooving.. but that is another story..). Between 1955 and 1958, even though there was very little jazz on the radio, small groups of us began to share those rare import albums that we purchased at great expense, and these "listening groups" helped to spread the interest in jazz. Local musicians with jazz talent began to emerge, and by 1957-58 the scene was in full swing in Cape Town. However, this being the heygay of apartheid, most of the music was still played by segregated groups ..in public. But the "private" scene was something else ... and that is where I encountered some of the great South African musicians featured on the two volumes of "Jazz In Africa" ... however, Kippie Moeketse, who was notoriously shy, never ever made it to Cape Town from Johannesburg before I left in 1958. I was lucky enough to hear him just once, in a private after hours session in Johannesburg in 1957, and he was.. well... different from what I had been listening to .. that is Art Pepper, Paul Desmond, Bud Shank, etc. and was much more in the Jackie McLean mold, blowing just hard enough to be out of tune, but in the African musical tradition that was not a crime. If you listen closely to the two Jazz in Africa albums you can hear the strong African "kwela" influence in his playing .. more notes than one would expect; little frills and embellishments, and playing around with the rhythm constantly .. I love it, and for me it is still a very moving experience to listen to this music that is an essential part of who I am. Even as a white South African, who left there in 1958, I still carry this music with me....

Later I may tell you the story of how I sold Hugh Masekela his first professional trumpet..

Garth,

Houston.

Edited by garthsj
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Wow! Garth, thank you for sharing these memories!

Cannot say "wish I was there" really (I did express my sort of scepticism above), but if it were for the music only, I'd sure wish!

Your description of Kippie's style is very accurate! I hear that too (though I know very little about south african music other than jazz, just heard one or two old LPs my father - who stayed in ZA in the late 60ies - brought home from there).

Kippie Moeketsi and Basil Coetzee are two really great saxophonists, in my opinion. And it's just those embellishments, and the slightly-out-of-tune horn settings which make me love this music that much.

Did you see Bud Shank when he was in Johannesburg in '58? Or was that after you left? (Or were you not able to make it to Jo'burg then anyway?)

You sure know that one track with him playing the pennywhistle, don't you?

And please tell us that story about Masekela's trumpet!

ubu

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Well UBU, since you asked ....

I had just turned 18, and was trying to stay alive with a day job while I pursued the futility of trying to be a professional actor ... an irony which may be lost on anyone who did not live in Cape Town in 1958. I was lucky enough to work in the only professional theatre in the city at the time, doing the usual kinds of parts that apprentice actors do ... but the was not enough to keep me alive. George Kussel, one of the real pioneers in Cape Town jazz, and the first real "beat" I had ever encountered, (he was way ahead of his time, affected dark glasses, and played a fine bass), managed the musical instrument department at Bothners, a large music and appliance store. When George heard that I was in need of work, he offered me a job selling instruments. As a budding alto and clarinet player, this was a natural for me, so I jumped at the chance the earn the money to "escape" South Africa. In the six months I was there I sold reeds, sheet music, music stands, saxophone slings, and every now and then, a major instrument. (Bothners were the Selmer representative in Cape Town, and I took advantage of my employment there to acquire a Selmer Mark VI alto at an employees discount). I had met Hugh Masekela when he first arrived in Cape Town, and he was just a year older than I was. He hung around the budding jazz scene, and was encouraged to "sit-in" whenever the chance presented itself. His technique was still pretty raw, and his grasp of harmony was rudimentary, but clearly, in a natural Chet Baker kind of way, this was a talent waiting to spring forth. I have forgotten the precise details, but his instrument at the time was a rather beaten up school model which he had brought from Johannesburg with him. George Kussel, ever the encourager of impoverished black musicians, told Hugh to come and see him about a new instrument. George and I worked out a great deal for Hugh in advance, and I did all of the paperwork for the "installment purchase". I will never forget the look at Hugh's beaming face when he walked out with a shiny new trumpet. Hugh went to England a year later on a scholarship to the Guildhall School of Music. The rest, as they say is history, and I often wondered as I followed the development of his career how long he kept that instrument. (My ex-wife got tired of hearing me tell this story every time his name was mentioned, which it was frequently in those days....)

The story had an interesting positive twist for me. I left for England a few weeks later, and one of my great surprises as I struggled financially in London was to receive an unexpected check for my six months of commission earned at Bothners, including that for Hugh's trumpet ... allowing me to survive for another few months ...

I had better get off the nostalgia wagon for the rest of the day ... this can be emotionally draining...

I just missed Bud Shank's visit by a few months ... but I do have my Tony Scott stories ...

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Garth, thanks for sharing this story! Love reading those personal memories by people around the music so much longer than I!

Masekela took part in that "King Kong" thing in London, yes? With Kippie and others, while Dollar Brand stayed back woodshedding in South Africa. I think I have the King Kong LP from my father (and some others with stickers from some record shops in Johannesburg on them, I think. The original mono pressing of "Love Supreme" I have - in horrible condition, though - came from South Africa, too!)

ubu

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