king ubu Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 what's Rs? rupees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I have some relatively high-level connections to Terra Firma. I probably can't find anything out, but I will try. However, I do expect the worst. Part of the MO here is to slash the "ancillary" divisions of the company. Is slashing the ancillary division necessarily a bad outcome? Said differently, presumably the Blue Note catalog has some value (however small) to somebody. Wouldn't TF try to maximize their return by selling the unit to somebody rather than throwing it away? They may not get much for it, but at the right price someone should be interested, and presumably the outfit that would pay the most is one that plans to do something productive with it (...like sell re-re-re-re-reissues of Blue Train ). I raised this point earlier (perhaps on a different thread, though). I'm guessing that BN is worth about $100mm based on the selling price of Fantasy - the thing is that that is kind of a petty amount of money for TF - I doubt they'd put a lot of effort into finding a buyer (unless they just decide to sell of assets piecewise, which I suppose is possible but would still probably entail a few dark years). I'm also hard-pressed to think of a likely buyer with the hundred mil - Concord would have been the obvious candidate, but they just blew 90 on Fantasy. Who else is out there? Of course, at the end of the day this is all pure speculation and we'll find out what really happens all too soon - I'm just saying that if it's a choice between buying a relatively obscure title this summer or waiting until xmas, do it this summer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 what's Rs? rupees? Rands MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Well, I thought maybe Mr. Tata was about to buy the british empire... Why Rand? Is EMI half South-African? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 No - I just wasn't convinced by Rupees MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I have some relatively high-level connections to Terra Firma. I probably can't find anything out, but I will try. However, I do expect the worst. Part of the MO here is to slash the "ancillary" divisions of the company. Is slashing the ancillary division necessarily a bad outcome? Said differently, presumably the Blue Note catalog has some value (however small) to somebody. Wouldn't TF try to maximize their return by selling the unit to somebody rather than throwing it away? They may not get much for it, but at the right price someone should be interested, and presumably the outfit that would pay the most is one that plans to do something productive with it (...like sell re-re-re-re-reissues of Blue Train ). I raised this point earlier (perhaps on a different thread, though). I'm guessing that BN is worth about $100mm based on the selling price of Fantasy - the thing is that that is kind of a petty amount of money for TF - I doubt they'd put a lot of effort into finding a buyer (unless they just decide to sell of assets piecewise, which I suppose is possible but would still probably entail a few dark years). I'm also hard-pressed to think of a likely buyer with the hundred mil - Concord would have been the obvious candidate, but they just blew 90 on Fantasy. Who else is out there? Of course, at the end of the day this is all pure speculation and we'll find out what really happens all too soon - I'm just saying that if it's a choice between buying a relatively obscure title this summer or waiting until xmas, do it this summer.... What makes you put BN at a higher value than Fantasy? If what I have heard is true, Weinstock got a lot more for Prestige, etc. than Alfred got for BN, and since then Fantasy has had big selling back catalog by CCR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Just a guess. It seems to me that BN has higher per-unit sales and are seen as having a more accessible, less intimidating catalog than Fantasy. Could be wrong. In any event, the lower the price of BN, the less likely TF is to bother finding a buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 That doesn't sound right to me - you're just comparing the jazz catalogue of Fantasy with BN. But Fantasy had Stax as well as CCR. Stax stuff will sell for as long as Hank Mobley stuff, but more. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 That doesn't sound right to me - you're just comparing the jazz catalogue of Fantasy with BN. But Fantasy had Stax as well as CCR. Stax stuff will sell for as long as Hank Mobley stuff, but more. MG Isn't most of the Stax stuff on Altantic? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) That is my understanding. Edit: according to Wiki, the pre 5/68 recordings belong to Atlantic, and the later recording belong to Fantasy. Another consideration is that, IMO, Fantasy clearly had a higher cost structure which would tend to lessen its value, even if its sales were comparable or stronger than BNs. Edited May 31, 2007 by J Larsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Why don't we all pool our money together, and the whole organissimo forum can buy Blue Note as a cooperative venture? How much would that be a person? I bet chewy's lawyer dad could kick in some serious moolah. Our first two reissues: the Tyrone Washington trainwreck, and Wayne Shorter unissued 10/13/70. The covers are already ready (see other thread). Should we keep Cuscuna and RVG on the payroll? Let's have a shareholders' meeting in the bahamas sometime soon. Bertrand. Edited May 31, 2007 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 That is my understanding. Edit: according to Wiki, the pre 5/68 recordings belong to Atlantic, and the later recording belong to Fantasy. Another consideration is that, IMO, Fantasy clearly had a higher cost structure which would tend to lessen its value, even if its sales were comparable or stronger than BNs. Blue Note is also a much better brand than anything on Fantasy/Concord. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I agree - that was sort of what was in my mind originally, though I didn't come out and say it directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen archer Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 The Beatles did not call their album Abbey Road for nothing: it was the crucible of their art. The studio, a tourist shrine, was eerily quiet when I strolled past yesterday; it is locally rumoured to be up for development sale as soon as the parent company’s fate is settled. "development sale"???? WTF?? Are they going to raze it for condos??? I was told that they don't give tours of Abbey Road studios is that correct ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 The Beatles did not call their album Abbey Road for nothing: it was the crucible of their art. The studio, a tourist shrine, was eerily quiet when I strolled past yesterday; it is locally rumoured to be up for development sale as soon as the parent company’s fate is settled. "development sale"???? WTF?? Are they going to raze it for condos??? I was told that they don't give tours of Abbey Road studios is that correct ? It's an active studio, I think they don't want the disruption of tourists walking through while they're recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 That is my understanding. Edit: according to Wiki, the pre 5/68 recordings belong to Atlantic, and the later recording belong to Fantasy. That's mostly true, though Fantasy have issued material like the first 2 Mar-Keys LPs and Albert King's first Stax LP, that I can mention off the top of my head. However, the big selling Stax material mostly came after 5/68 - Ike Hayes, Johnny Taylor, Staples, Soul Children, Little Milton, Albert King, Dramatics, Rance Allen. Another consideration is that, IMO, Fantasy clearly had a higher cost structure which would tend to lessen its value, even if its sales were comparable or stronger than BNs. That's interesting - can you explain a bit more please? Blue Note is also a much better brand than anything on Fantasy/Concord. Guy It's definitely a better brand for Hard Bop than anything anywhere. But it's not a better brand for Soul Jazz than Prestige. It's not a better brand for Soul than Stax. It's not a better brand for Gospel than Specialty. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Why don't we all pool our money together, and the whole organissimo forum can buy Blue Note as a cooperative venture? How much would that be a person? I bet chewy's lawyer dad could kick in some serious moolah. Our first two reissues: the Tyrone Washington trainwreck, and Wayne Shorter unissued 10/13/70. The covers are already ready (see other thread). Should we keep Cuscuna and RVG on the payroll? Let's have a shareholders' meeting in the bahamas sometime soon. Bertrand. It's more rational to think in terms of customers buying some shares in Mosaic, should EMI want to sell their 50%. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Blue Note is also a much better brand than anything on Fantasy/Concord. Guy It's definitely a better brand for Hard Bop than anything anywhere. But it's not a better brand for Soul Jazz than Prestige. It's not a better brand for Soul than Stax. It's not a better brand for Gospel than Specialty. MG Maybe I wasn't clear. High-selling artists like Norah Jones, Van Morrison, and Al Green are obviously interested in releasing new music under the Blue Note brand. I don't think there's any such parallel interest in releasing new music under the Prestige, Stax or Specialty brands. Guy Edited May 31, 2007 by Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Why don't we all pool our money together, and the whole organissimo forum can buy Blue Note as a cooperative venture? How much would that be a person? I bet chewy's lawyer dad could kick in some serious moolah. Our first two reissues: the Tyrone Washington trainwreck, and Wayne Shorter unissued 10/13/70. The covers are already ready (see other thread). Should we keep Cuscuna and RVG on the payroll? Let's have a shareholders' meeting in the bahamas sometime soon. Bertrand. It's more rational to think in terms of customers buying some shares in Mosaic, should EMI want to sell their 50%. MG I don't remember where I heard this, but I seem to recall that the price EMI paid for that stake was surprisingly high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nobody mentioned that EMI has a huge classical music catalogue too, that should still worths some pennies, at least for the great Klemperer performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Blue Note is also a much better brand than anything on Fantasy/Concord. Guy It's definitely a better brand for Hard Bop than anything anywhere. But it's not a better brand for Soul Jazz than Prestige. It's not a better brand for Soul than Stax. It's not a better brand for Gospel than Specialty. MG Maybe I wasn't clear. High-selling artists like Norah Jones, Van Morrison, and Al Green are obviously interested in releasing new music under the Blue Note brand. I don't think there's any such parallel interest in releasing new music under the Prestige, Stax or Specialty brands. Guy Ah, I see - do you think those people chose Blue Note or was it EMI who did the deciding? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 That is my understanding. Edit: according to Wiki, the pre 5/68 recordings belong to Atlantic, and the later recording belong to Fantasy. That's mostly true, though Fantasy have issued material like the first 2 Mar-Keys LPs and Albert King's first Stax LP, that I can mention off the top of my head. However, the big selling Stax material mostly came after 5/68 - Ike Hayes, Johnny Taylor, Staples, Soul Children, Little Milton, Albert King, Dramatics, Rance Allen. Another consideration is that, IMO, Fantasy clearly had a higher cost structure which would tend to lessen its value, even if its sales were comparable or stronger than BNs. That's interesting - can you explain a bit more please? Fantasy's model was, AFAI can tell, was more geared towards offering a large number of low-selling titles (yes, they had some big sellers, but also hundreds that I wouldn't be surprised to learn sold under 1000 copies each). I would guess that BN's inventory turnover was much higher than Fantasy's. This is a highly irrelevant and speculative tangent on the thread, but all I'm saying is that I'd be happy to trade you the market value of Fantasy for the market value of BN. We'd both be well off, but I think I'd end up slightly better off. And I completely agree with Guy's take on the brand value, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nobody mentioned that EMI has a huge classical music catalogue too, that should still worths some pennies, at least for the great Klemperer performance. I did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nobody mentioned that EMI has a huge classical music catalogue too, that should still worths some pennies, at least for the great Klemperer performance. I did... Whooops...where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I mentioned Angel somewhere - possibly in a different thread - no worries - just saying I'm right there with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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