king ubu

BFT 48 discussion - disc two

20 posts in this topic

So then, let the fun begin - I hope that most of the few who actually were interested in getting the download links will actually be able to post some comments!

I am more interested in getting some impressions about the music, rather than the guessing game. The theme of the disc may make it easy to do the guessing for a select few (but I think none of them watned my links) and difficult for most, but I won't say no more now...

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed and/or will enjoy playing the music I selected! It got a bit too much, possibly, but then I didn't have much time since my slot came quicker than planned, and also since I changed months with gnhrtg. Anyway, if I had more time, I wouldn't have been able to boil it down to 80 minutes but maybe to 120 or so, but then I thought why not share all of it and make it two full discs! So disc 1 is actually all commercially available material, while disc 2 consists of some live stuff, too (as you'll have noticed when you have played it, some in sub-par sound, but the track that sounds worst was in my opinion the most beautiful I had by that group).

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Don't know anything here either, same as disk 1, except maybe one tune so again I won't bother putting that for each track.

1. No idea of the language - Polynesian? Voice reminds me just a little of Cleo Laine. Struggles with the low notes. Not something I would normally listen to.

2. Style of this music is outside my listening nowadays - can't say I like it.

3. This has got a nicer bounce - has something of the feel of South Africa although I'm not a fan of that music either.

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ouch! :g

CD2's #1-#4 are the "historical" segment of my BFT, just in case anyone wonders... but then #1-#3 or CD1 would almost fit in there, too... ;)

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ouch! :g

CD2's #1-#4 are the "historical" segment of my BFT, just in case anyone wonders... but then #1-#3 or CD1 would almost fit in there, too... ;)

Not criticizing, just trying not to say NMCOT. We can't all like everything can we? The trouble is what comes later. Perhaps I should just shut up and read others' more informed comments - and learn.

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not a biggie, Rodney! I still hope you'll like some of the music, though I'm afraid that much of it will be a bit too... well, I don't know what word to use, I don't want this to be read as an offense at all, it's more about taste, in the end! None of it is "out" or "free", really (except maybe one cut on the second disc - part of the boots/live segment, which is disc 2 #5-9, while disc 2 #10 and #11 are sort of bonus cuts to disc one).

But there's stuff like electric bass, straight rhythms, etc. that I know won't be to everybody's liking!

Anyway, I am very much interested to read impressions and comments on the music as most of what I selected is very near and dear to me - may be a bit dangerous to throw this at you all here, but then I also hope some may fall in love with these sounds!

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track 4 - always loved Rockin in Rhythm, nice use of vocal and pennywhistle? or is it overblown flute

more african influences....

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1 This sounds African, but I can’t identify what language it is. Doesn’t really have a South African feel to it. A blues-like song, sung by a woman with an interesting voice. Sounds like a forties recording.

2 Swing band, but not swing era – the drummer isn’t using the bass drum much. Pretty good Hawkins-like tenor solo. My guess, having heard the next track, is that the drummer is the same man, and that would make this one South African, too. But this doesn’t sound at all South African.

3 This sounds authentically South African. A post-war swing band, I guess. Very nice indeed.

4 I know this tune; Dixieland material but can’t put a title to it. Kwela flute puts this into South Africa again. Very interesting. Like the girl’s voice.

5 More from SA. Guitar with someone tap-dancing on a floorboard :D As the tune develops, the rhythm actually begins to sound too complex for SA, but the feel is still SA. Very wild bit of guitar playing at the end!

6 More from SA. Guitar intro leading to SA band. Sounds like a sixties recording. Quite a lot of wow on the tape, but the alto player is all over his instrument. I think this guy isn’t Kippie, though he does have a similar sound. Perhaps it’s earlier than the material I’ve heard. The sound my be defeating me. Tenor player is also all over his sax. Slightly easier to date the tenor player from Joe Henderson influences. Late sixties early seventies, I’d guess. Very exciting stuff, this. I wonder if the tenor player is Ricky Ford but, if so, I’d expect some Abdullah Ibrahim piano, but there isn’t any. Good guitarist, though. Dunno who these guys are, but it’s damn good!

7 Terrible sound. Another SA band, live. I get a strong Mongezi Feza feeling about the trumpet player, though the sound makes it hard to be positive (and I also haven’t heard a great deal by him). Is the tenor player Basil “Mannenberg” Coetzee? I’m waiting for the piano player… No piano player. The ensemble work is WILD! The impact of the band as a whole must be something like the people in KC experienced hearing the Basie band in the thirties.

8 Another live job from SA. OK, that’s Abdullah on piano. A tune I don’t know (I don’t think I know). I think the alto player may be Robbie Jansen – he certainly plays as frantically as Robbie. Trumpet player spitting FIRE! Who, I don’t know. The trombonist reminds me of the guy who played with Charles Earland sometimes, Clifford Adams, I think. But it CAN’T be him.

9 More Abdullah live. As it starts, I think I recognise elements of the tune; late eighties vintage, I feel. Something from “Water from an ancient well”, perhaps. He had Cecil McBee with him in those days, and this could be him on bass. This is very exciting for a piano/bass duet! Oh, Abdullah’s bringing in bits of other tunes, now. Kind of like a greatest hits medley! “Can they keep up this for another ten minutes?” I ask myself.

Actually, though I love it, I’ve had enough after ten minutes. Different if you were there, of course.

Two white missionaries tied up in hut in Africa. “The drums! The drums! I can’t stand the drums!”

“Don’t worry white man. You’re all right so long as the drums are playing. It’s when they stop, you should worry.”

“What happens when they stop?”

“Bass solo.”

OK, here comes, I suspect, Carlos Ward on flute. A bit different to his work with the ‘70s Funk band Brick! (Course, it could be John Stubblefield.)

Oh yes, yet another of Abdullah’s greatest hits incorporated! Glad I didn’t stop listening at ten minutes!

10 More live Abdullah. The long intro sounds like it’s going to be one of his old tunes. Oh yes, I do know the tune. Can’t think of the title at present. Carlos Ward on alto, I think. I like the shouts of encouragement from, I guess Abdullah. I always thought Carlos absorbed the idiom very well. Can’t work out who the tenor player would be – candidates are Ricky Ford, John Stubblefield and Basil Coetzee. Probably Stubblefield. But sometimes it does sound like Basil. Yes, I think it’s Basil. Which puts this gig into the early nineties.

11 Another SA band. Very prominent bass player. I think I hear Abdullah’s shouts again, though he’s not doing much on the piano. And the band sounds South African, not American. I’ll be very interested to see who this is.

Well, another delightful bunch of stuff, Ubu! Thanks very much!

MG

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Thanks for your post, MG - I'll post a tune-by-tune reply when home from work tonight.

The Ibrahim medley would have been the first thing I'd have omitted on a one disc-compilation, but I'm enjoying it a lot... you're quite wrong on his accompanying players, though... ;)

I thought this was one of the most obvious cuts. Also on #10 you're a bit off... but as I said, more later!

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Flurin,

I started with disc #2, and I've been loving it! It is such a fun ciompilation. Very nicely done.

I'll post my guesses / thoughts by this weekend. We listened to it with dinner tonight and my wife gives it a thumbs up, too.

At first I thought there was a Caribbean theme, but, after the mid-point of the disc, I think it's safe to say this has an African, and possibly South African, theme. I definitely heard some Abdullah Ibrahim.

I'll hold off on more comments until I listen one more time and write down my thoughts.

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1 This sounds African, but I can’t identify what language it is. Doesn’t really have a South African feel to it. A blues-like song, sung by a woman with an interesting voice. Sounds like a forties recording.

'54... but this (#1-4) is what I consider the "historical segement" (you can add #1-3 of CD1 if you want, but they're slightly more modern). I included this exactly because I like the bluesy quality...

2 Swing band, but not swing era – the drummer isn’t using the bass drum much. Pretty good Hawkins-like tenor solo. My guess, having heard the next track, is that the drummer is the same man, and that would make this one South African, too. But this doesn’t sound at all South African.

This is them trying to do proper jazz, you know... not music of much originality, but I decided to include these four tracks because they are sort of a "pre-history" for the beef of the stuff contained on both discs. Drummer is indeed the same as on the following cut!

3 This sounds authentically South African. A post-war swing band, I guess. Very nice indeed.

Again from the second half of the 50s (as is #2, btw).

4 I know this tune; Dixieland material but can’t put a title to it. Kwela flute puts this into South Africa again. Very interesting. Like the girl’s voice.

It's a Duke Ellington classic - as clunky noted! Indeed one with an almost dixielandish drive, but I love it, too! (Great version on the Columbia "Piano in the Background" album that's available in a nice Legacy reissue.) It's pennywhistle, indeed.

5 More from SA. Guitar with someone tap-dancing on a floorboard :D As the tune develops, the rhythm actually begins to sound too complex for SA, but the feel is still SA. Very wild bit of guitar playing at the end!

This is a great one, no? Very different, not really jazz at all, but the feeling is there! Sorry for the vow in sound, but believe me, before I cleaned it up, the only thing you heard where the bass beats from the drum... I don't know this chap from anything but this live recording, but it seems he's a bit of a legendary person.

6 More from SA. Guitar intro leading to SA band. Sounds like a sixties recording. Quite a lot of wow on the tape, but the alto player is all over his instrument. I think this guy isn’t Kippie, though he does have a similar sound. Perhaps it’s earlier than the material I’ve heard. The sound my be defeating me. Tenor player is also all over his sax. Slightly easier to date the tenor player from Joe Henderson influences. Late sixties early seventies, I’d guess. Very exciting stuff, this. I wonder if the tenor player is Ricky Ford but, if so, I’d expect some Abdullah Ibrahim piano, but there isn’t any. Good guitarist, though. Dunno who these guys are, but it’s damn good!

'77 - both horn players aren't from SA, but the band and its leader is... not Ricky Ford. Damn good indeed! May I give a hint here: check out the mf rhythm section!

7 Terrible sound. Another SA band, live. I get a strong Mongezi Feza feeling about the trumpet player, though the sound makes it hard to be positive (and I also haven’t heard a great deal by him). Is the tenor player Basil “Mannenberg” Coetzee? I’m waiting for the piano player… No piano player. The ensemble work is WILD! The impact of the band as a whole must be something like the people in KC experienced hearing the Basie band in the thirties.

Yup, Feza! Sound again isn't great, but this was my pick for a tune by this group of players just because it's so strong and beautiful - it transcends sound issues easily for me! Not Coetzee, there's a piano player and I'm sorry this chap isn't featured longer here...

8 Another live job from SA. OK, that’s Abdullah on piano. A tune I don’t know (I don’t think I know). I think the alto player may be Robbie Jansen – he certainly plays as frantically as Robbie. Trumpet player spitting FIRE! Who, I don’t know. The trombonist reminds me of the guy who played with Charles Earland sometimes, Clifford Adams, I think. But it CAN’T be him.

Not Abdullah, not Robbie, not Adams... check the mo-fo riddim section again, Sir! Love this one!

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9 More Abdullah live. As it starts, I think I recognise elements of the tune; late eighties vintage, I feel. Something from “Water from an ancient well”, perhaps. He had Cecil McBee with him in those days, and this could be him on bass. This is very exciting for a piano/bass duet! Oh, Abdullah’s bringing in bits of other tunes, now. Kind of like a greatest hits medley! “Can they keep up this for another ten minutes?” I ask myself.

Actually, though I love it, I’ve had enough after ten minutes. Different if you were there, of course.

Two white missionaries tied up in hut in Africa. “The drums! The drums! I can’t stand the drums!”

“Don’t worry white man. You’re all right so long as the drums are playing. It’s when they stop, you should worry.”

“What happens when they stop?”

“Bass solo.”

OK, here comes, I suspect, Carlos Ward on flute. A bit different to his work with the ‘70s Funk band Brick! (Course, it could be John Stubblefield.)

Oh yes, yet another of Abdullah’s greatest hits incorporated! Glad I didn’t stop listening at ten minutes!

Glad to hear you liked it in the end! Ward's not present, nor is McBee... I'm a bit astonished you don't get this, but then someone else certainly will, I hope! Ibrahim it is of course. There's also a setlist around for this medley, but it's not correct (one of my favourite melodies that turns up towards the end - a version of it with saxes is on "African Horns" on KAZ/Camden - is missing on that setlist, for instance - so I'll just call it a medley for lack of better knowledge and laziness to compare songs for a day...)

10 More live Abdullah. The long intro sounds like it’s going to be one of his old tunes. Oh yes, I do know the tune. Can’t think of the title at present. Carlos Ward on alto, I think. I like the shouts of encouragement from, I guess Abdullah. I always thought Carlos absorbed the idiom very well. Can’t work out who the tenor player would be – candidates are Ricky Ford, John Stubblefield and Basil Coetzee. Probably Stubblefield. But sometimes it does sound like Basil. Yes, I think it’s Basil. Which puts this gig into the early nineties.

Basil, yup! Stone classic - one more to go with #8 from disc one (not same session of course)!

11 Another SA band. Very prominent bass player. I think I hear Abdullah’s shouts again, though he’s not doing much on the piano. And the band sounds South African, not American. I’ll be very interested to see who this is.

I guess the bass player is jut prominent because of the bad mix... another partly mysterious track (just one horn player given on the disc I took it from - Basil... though he's not here, I think...). Drummer may be slightly better known and is, I think, still around.

Well, another delightful bunch of stuff, Ubu! Thanks very much!

MG

Thanks for your lenghty replies, MG - these are the kind of BFT posts I enjoy most!

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I didn't recognize the language on the first track; it isn't Dutch or Afrikaans and it doesn't sounds familiar with any Euroean language I guess, or it should be Finnish or Albanian. The one who suggested Polynesian or Hawaiian ..... maybe he's right, but as most music of this album is African made, maybe this is some rare local Zambian dialect, pronounced backwards ........ :party:

Keep swinging

Durium

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1. I'm not sure what language is being sung here. At first I thought it sounded like Polynesian, but I can't think of a match that feels right to me. Other than the interest of trying to identify the language this track doesn't do a lot for me. I'm really not a big fan of vocal jazz. The band is fine, nut nothing out of the ordinary. This is from the 1940's or early 1950's I would guess.

2. This one is also not grabbing me. The tune is pleasant, and the musicians are fine. Early 1950's I'd guess. I think this one sounds older than it really is.

3. Ok, now this track is another story. Pleasant enough at first, but it quickly gets much more interesting. Again, this sounds like a track from the 1950's, but I'm fairly certain this band is South African. No one instrument really shines, although the vibes make a big impact when they arrive and the alto is very nice. I like the way this track swings so distictively. Very nice!

4. This tune isn't as distinctivly SA as #3, but the flute makes me think we haven't left SA. The vocals are nice, they add to the tune without dominating the proceedings. The tune itself sounds familiar, but I can't place where I might have heard it before.

5. Now I'm positive of your theme. I wish this recording was a little more dynamic. I'm hearing guitar and one, possibly two, percussionists. This has a very SA feel to it, but the guitar playing gets a little wild towards the end and the rhythm gets busier and more complex than I would expect from SA. I really like this track. As I said, I wish it was a bit better recorded, but a very interesting and fun track.

6. A great tune! This almost sounds like a smaller offshoot of the Brotherhood of Breath. The recording quality isn't doing them any favors, but the rhythm section is absolutley smoking here. The horns dominate, but the guitar, bass and drums really steal the show for me. This sounds farther out than I would expect from the Blue Notes, but the recording sounds like it could be from the early-mid 1960's and I keep thinking this is Dudu on alto. If this isn't a group from the Blue Notes / Brotherhood orbit I have no clue who it is. My favorite track so far.

7. Forget what I said about track #6 being my favorite. Track #7, rough sound quality and all, just knocked it back to second place. This sounds more like the BoB than the last track, but I don't hear any piano, so I can't be sure. That might just be due to the sound quality. Is this Mongezi on trumpet? Such wonderful energy and enthusiasm. It really sounds like the band is having a lot of fun playing this one live. The trumpet stands out, but it's the ensemble playing that really grabs me. Is the rest of this album this good? If so, I'll have to track down a copy. It doesn't get much better than this, in my opinion.

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Hey, I'm glad to see you enjoyed #7 so much! It's from an old audience tape, hence no album... I cleaned this (and #5, too) up a bit but sound remains pretty beat-up. Still, I loved the cut so much I had to include this!

No wonder the rhythm section steals the show on #6... McGregor orbit is a bit off but not really again... Not Dudu, I think (and so says my info).

#7 is from that orbit... have to play it again to check if there's really no piano (maybe he just had a drink at the bar and enjoyed the hell out of the great band he'd assembled for this gig?). Feza it is, he has been identified already.

#4 is Duke's "Rockin' in Rhythm", the flute is indeed a pennywhistle, and the singer... she got *very* famous later on but no one pinned her down yet...

As for #2 vs. #3 I have to compare them again... as I said before, these are considered (with #1 and #4 and maybe a few of the earlier tracks on CD1) the "historical segment" of the compilation... will have to check if I react similarly to you with regard to #2 and #3... btw, only just last week I found a new compilation with similar material than the one I took these early tracks from...

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8. It took me a few listens, and I think it finally took the next few tracks to convince me, but I’m guessing this is Abdullah Ibrahim. The band is playing with more energy and fire than I am used to. This sounds like the playing I associate with his live shows in the late 1970’s / early 1980’s more so than anything I have heard from him in the past 10 years or so. There is a lot I like about this track but, unlike track #7, which is slightly longer, track #8 starts to lose me about seven minutes in. All of the musicians are playing really well, and I can’t really pinpoint anything specific, but I think they could have benefited by reigning things in a few minutes earlier.

9. Very nice interplay between the piano and bass to start. This tune sounds familiar. More Ibrahim? Yes, this is him again. I’d guess this is a more recent track than #8. OK, the first 10 minutes are wonderful and captivating, but they are starting to lose me during the bass solo with occasional chimes. Cut out the minute and a half bass solo and I’d be a happy camper. This track works much better when there is some interplay. The flute brings me back into the tune, but the ending section with Ibrahim is worth waiting for. Another tune that I should be able to name. All in all a nice track that could use a bit of editing.

10. Abdullah again. This one sounds like it is from the late 1990’s. Even though his style is immediately recognizable all three of these tracks really stand apart from each other and have their own unique sound. This is another great tune that I should be able to identify. I wouldn’t be surprised if I had a copy of this show floating around somewhere. This one has a really nice groove. Kind of lazy and relaxed, but with a slow-burning energy and some real enthusiasm from all involved. The vocalizations really add to the track. Very nice!

11. Is that a cello? And electric bass? The mix doesn’t serve the drummer well, as he sounds fairly flat and lost in the mix. I really like this tune. The tenor shines, but the whole ensemble plays with nice energy and seems to be having fun. Another SA sounding tune, but a little more “out” than usual, perhaps due to the unusual instrumentation.

Thanks again for a fantastic disc! I really had a great time listening to disc #2 and look forward to exploring more by several of these artists!

Now on to disc #1.

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Ibrahim is on three of these tracks, but not on #8! You might be right about #8, but I wanted to have a track from this particular band!

#9 is indeed Ibrahim - no one, not even you, has a guess at the bassist?!?

#10 is a stone classic... 70s again, as I said in response to MG's comments, it and #11 are sort of additions to disc 1...

On #11, that's a cello indeed!

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Not listened to this so much so some sketchy note for this. Interesting and fun and as ever I other than place and guesses at general personnel

1. Interesting and no idea even of the language. I'd guess african but no idea really

2. Not really my thing and a Glen Miller-y sounding band.

3. Like this better, fresh sounding and fun. Again a calypso/african thing going on and sounds like a mod classic I cant remember the name of...

4. Ellingtonian - Creole Love Call style thing which is great. I've always loved that too and this is great too.

More later...

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Colin, #1-4 of the second disc is just kind of an hors d'oeuvre... the real beef starts with #5! Hope you find time to continue listening soon!

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#9 is indeed Ibrahim - no one, not even you, has a guess at the bassist?!?

I'll guess Johnny Dyani, although one of my first thoughts was that I was hearing some Peter Kowald in this performance.

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yup... nope... haven't heard much Kowald and not for a long time, so I can't comment on that

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