Worst Attempt at Commercial Crossover by an Otherwise Respected Jazz A

[couw]

Jimmy Smith's "Stay Loose" is about as horrible as it gets when it comes to lame words and a basic "let's try and cash" in mentality. That said, the track is groovin'! Just the words are horrible...the refrain of "Freedom, Freak-out & Free for all" is about as mind-numbing as it sounds.

Cool album cover!

I think it's silly really. So silly that it's cool again, but still silly.

[DMP]

Okay, then, how about Joe Farrell's disco album on Warner Brothers?

[RDK]

But the worst, I think, on a major label, that I've actually got, was Wynton Kelly's "Comin' in the back door",

If nothing else, that may be one of the unintentionally worst titles I've ever heard!

[K1969]

I find lateef's two CTI efforts duff. But then again they were a lot better than other stuff from the same era. It's just that he had a long way to fall. I held the guy (and still do) in such esteem before that it exaggerated the the incline of the decline if you see what I mean. This one below I found unlistenable but not in a sell out way - it's not commercial in the sense that it makes your head hurt when you listen to it. I'm wondering if I win second prize in Teasing the Korean's contest ???

Regarding Joe Farrel, I haven't heard his Warner Brothers stuff but I hear it's terrible. However I feel that he had already started to nose dive with his later sides from '75 onwards - and yes on CTI again. LP's like Canned Funk and Upon this rock. They have thier moments from a sampling perspective but the Creed Taylor sound by this time is the epitomy of over production. The title and cover to "canned funk" kind of admits what's wrong - a really factory-processed sound that sucks all the soul out of the music. I really felt at some moments that my ears would bleed just listening to it, no kidding. Still hard not to give into curiosity with a cover like that:

[Guest donald petersen]

kh2049595, i could not agree less with you less!

those farrell CTI sides are pretty good to very very good.

and especially if you are talking about CTI overproduction, i don't think you'll find more "pure" CTI stuff than joe farrell's albums. personally i think those two are better than "penny arcade". that' s just me.

and the lateef album-for the time it came out, is surprisingly ok. i don't listen to it very often and don't particularly like it, but it is definitely ok. lateef's weirdness comes through though it is definitely a commercial effort. lateef made plenty of lamer albums.

the joe farrell warner brothers stuff is bad. i only have "night dancing" but i definitely only pull it out if i am trying to find a good sample. not something to listen to.

[Noj]

Don't mind the Joe Farrell CTIs, but this one was painful.

[Guest donald petersen]

but compared to in a temple garden, autophysiopsychic or however you spell it doesn't look as terrible.

[K1969]

kh2049595, i could not agree less with you less!

those farrell CTI sides are pretty good to very very good.

and especially if you are talking about CTI overproduction, i don't think you'll find more "pure" CTI stuff than joe farrell's albums. personally i think those two are better than "penny arcade". that' s just me.

and the lateef album-for the time it came out, is surprisingly ok. i don't listen to it very often and don't particularly like it, but it is definitely ok. lateef's weirdness comes through though it is definitely a commercial effort. lateef made plenty of lamer albums.

the joe farrell warner brothers stuff is bad. i only have "night dancing" but i definitely only pull it out if i am trying to find a good sample. not something to listen to.

I can't say I'm surprised - non one ever seems to agree on CTI which is kind of a hommage to Creed Taylor if you believe in healthy debate. There's quite a few CTI titles i like - but mainly from the earlier period. If for you, the "classic" CTI sound is from the mid 70s, then I can see why canned funk is "pure CTI". For me it's pure migrane. Vive la difference

[Guest donald petersen]

people love moon germs. it's considered a nice album. so is outback.

why is canned funk different?

its a quintet date, heavy on the electricity and fusion funk elements but for the time it is a solid date.

i don't hear the CTI production on this one that you do. there are no overdubs. no strings. no horn sections or woodwind sections. no gigantic cast of musicians. no david matthews musically directing.

[K1969]

people love moon germs. it's considered a nice album. so is outback.

why is canned funk different?

its a quintet date, heavy on the electricity and fusion funk elements but for the time it is a solid date.

i don't hear the CTI production on this one that you do. there are no overdubs. no strings. no horn sections or woodwind sections. no gigantic cast of musicians. no david matthews musically directing.

What can I say? My ears just hear it differently to yours. To me there are HUGE differences in both the sound and style of the music between early and late Joe Farrel CTI. Regarding the latter period, let me try to give you a more specific example. The next time you spin the track canned funk, listen to the 12 (or is it 16?) bar break down where the bass leads with a kind of loping melody. It repeats itself several times throughout the track. Jesus how many processors or God only knows what did the engineer (was is RVG?) crank that bass through? To me it sounds tortured. You never heard that kind of production on earlier CTI sides which were much more organic sounding even when they employed electronics. We're drifting a bit of from the theme of the thread but may be i just don't like over laboured production. But hey, if you dig it, that's cool.

[Guest donald petersen]

well maybe the effects herb bushler employed in that section hadn't even been invented yet a few years earlier!

ok we will agree to disagree. i just wouldn't call herb bushler deciding to use a flanger and perhaps some sort of filter or other effect on his bass an example of CTI overproduction.

[Dan Gould]

i mean can people rip some of those late gene harris BN discs? sure but they aren't bad in the context of what was happening. they're fine and have some good moments on them, IMO.

As the former Gene Harris Fanatic, I can assure you that you would be incorrect.

There are no redeeming features or moments on those albums.

I beg to differ.

I figured you might.

[Unk]

I'm surprised not to see mention of Eddie Harris. ...not that I'm advancing his Hall of Shame nomination here....But, as I recall, he had albums entitled "I Need Some Money" and "Why I'm Talkin' Sh*t" and "Plug Me In" I don't recall offhand which had the lowest musical integrity.

All that said, I dug damn near everything Harris ever played, sung or synthesized through his various horns.

[Guest donald petersen]

"plug me in"? that is so far from being the worst attempt at a commercial crossover eddie harris attempted...

[CJ Shearn]

JOS playing synthesizers on some of his mid 70's stuff. Some ppl may find Pat Metheny's contributions to Kenny Garrett's "Simply Said" surprisingly too close to anonymous smooth jazz guitar players, Freddie Hubbard doing "Midnight at the Oasis" Donald Byrd's Mizell produced stuff, Chick Corea with the Foo Fighters at the Grammies, Dizzy's Party.

[jodigrind]

I hereby nominate Lou Donaldson's 1976 album "A Different Scene". The first track on that album (a disco-inferno take on "You are my Sunshine" complete with a modulation at the end) clinches it.

All love to Lou, but this album and its follow-up "Color as a Way of Life" were comically bad.

[Kalo]

Didn't Chet Baker do a Tijuana Brass knock-off?

[medjuck]

You guys are probably all too young to remember Muggsy Spanier singing Party Doll.

[brownie]

Didn't Chet Baker do a Tijuana Brass knock-off?

Those Chet Baker Mariachi recordings were an embarassment! One of the worsts was this one

but the others were no better.

The Jackie McLean Monuments was not good but it was not the dismal failure these Chet Bakers were!

[Guy Berger]

I haven't heard this one, but imagine that it could be pretty bad:

Also, until I googled the above I had never seen this (which is probably too good to qualify for this thread):

Definitely the best titled album of 1964/65.

Guy

[brownie]

I haven't heard this one, but imagine that it could be pretty bad:

It is! Believe me

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

"Hampton Hawes plays movie musicals" on Vault

I BET IT ROCKS

[Claude]

Also, until I googled the above I had never seen this (which is probably too good to qualify for this thread):

Definitely the best titled album of 1964/65.

Guy

Indeed, it's not a bad album, though not even Chet's most important album from 1964/65 ...

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I hereby nominate Lou Donaldson's 1976 album "A Different Scene". The first track on that album (a disco-inferno take on "You are my Sunshine" complete with a modulation at the end) clinches it.

All love to Lou, but this album and its follow-up "Color as a Way of Life" were comically bad.

Yes, I'd forgotten about those.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

"Hampton Hawes plays movie musicals" on Vault

I BET IT ROCKS

No it doesn't - Billy Byers' string arrangements are about as turgid as you could wish for (except for the Claus Ogerman ones on "Comin' in the back door").

MG