Summer of Drugs

[porcy62]

The 60s were sure as hell the beginning of the demise of horns in pop music.

Blood Sweat & Tears, Chicago, Tower of Power, Ten Wheel Drive, etc.

Yeah, even in U.K. I am listening to Traffic, full of fu***** heavy guitars, no horns...

Anyway I agree with Ted, the 60s were the starting point of the decline of the music...and the american empire. The right move was Elvis' one: go to the president Nixon and accusing those bastards coming from Liverpool for spreading the drug's culture among the innocent young americans...innocent WHITE americans.

Edited July 4, 2007 by porcy62

[connoisseur series500]

And I have to disagree that Morrison, Joplin, and Mama Cass were "geniuses". Hendrix, yes... but c'mon.

Yeah, I'd only call Hendrix a music genius. American popular music tastes are so low that the "genius" label is tossed about casually.

[Guy Berger]

And I have to disagree that Morrison, Joplin, and Mama Cass were "geniuses". Hendrix, yes... but c'mon.

Yeah, I'd only call Hendrix a music genius. American popular music tastes are so low that the "genius" label is tossed about casually.

I don't think it's just in music.

I also don't know if this happens just in America, though I suppose it's possible.

Guy

[porcy62]

And I have to disagree that Morrison, Joplin, and Mama Cass were "geniuses". Hendrix, yes... but c'mon.

Yeah, I'd only call Hendrix a music genius. American popular music tastes are so low that the "genius" label is tossed about casually.

Agree, the Doors as a whole were great and Janis was a great singer, but geniuses...

[Big Wheel]

And the pill giving women a false sense of equality(not that some are and are not equal).

Yes, it's those uppity women and their unreasonable demands to control when they want to raise families that's the cause of America's social decay. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was standing on your lawn.

[AllenLowe]

what Nugent neglects to mention is that, to avoid the draft, he took the classic 1960s drug cocktail so he could go to the draft board with his vital signs run amuck - and so he, too, received a 4f deferral.

biggest damn hypocrite in the world.

The 1960s can't be summed up in sociological cliches and catch-phrases. I tend to agree that the "hippy" movement was, to paraphrase Frank Zappa, just another middle-class conceit. HOWEVER -

the politicization of that generation had the kind of complicated and ripple effects on social and political norms - from basic ideas of feminism to the overall change in attitudes toward homosexuality to affirmative action, to changes in the social service bureaucracy, and much more - that make this more than a "yes" or "no" argument.

as one whose life was forever altered by the Vietnam war, by public figures like Bobby Kennedy and Allard Lowenstein and Martin Luther King, I would suggest that one should make more informed judgements about that era. The Big Chill it wasn't -

Edited July 4, 2007 by AllenLowe

[porcy62]

what Nugent neglects to mention is that, to avoid the draft, he took the classic 1960s drug cocktail so he could go to the draft board with his vital signs run amuck - and so he, too, received a 4f deferral.

biggest damn hypocrite in the world.

The 1960s can't be summed up in sociological cliches and catch-phrases. I tend to agree that the "hippy" movement was, to paraphrase Frank Zappa, just another middle-class conceit. HOWEVER -

the politicization of that generation had the kind of complicated and ripple effects on social and political norms - from basic ideas of feminism to the overall change in attitudes toward homosexuality to affirmative action, to changes in the social service bureaucracy, and much more - that make this more than a "yes" or "no" argument.

as one whose life was forever altered by the Vietnam war, by public figures like Bobby Kennedy and Allard Lowenstein and Martin Luther King, I would suggest that one should make more informed judgements about that era. The Big Chill it wasn't -

Word

[7/4]

what Nugent neglects to mention is that, to avoid the draft, he took the classic 1960s drug cocktail so he could go to the draft board with his vital signs run amuck - and so he, too, received a 4f deferral.

biggest damn hypocrite in the world.

And what is that cocktail? Just curious...

[porcy62]

what Nugent neglects to mention is that, to avoid the draft, he took the classic 1960s drug cocktail so he could go to the draft board with his vital signs run amuck - and so he, too, received a 4f deferral.

biggest damn hypocrite in the world.

And what is that cocktail? Just curious...

Me too, an exaustive explanation, please. I need it for my novel. And what was a 4f deferral? I am serious.

[BruceH]

Makes me glad that we stopped getting the Wall Street Journal.

[T.D.]

what Nugent neglects to mention is that, to avoid the draft, he took the classic 1960s drug cocktail so he could go to the draft board with his vital signs run amuck - and so he, too, received a 4f deferral.

biggest damn hypocrite in the world.

And what is that cocktail? Just curious...

Me too, an exaustive explanation, please. I need it for my novel. And what was a 4f deferral? I am serious.

Art Pepper describes at least one such cocktail in Straight Life iirc...

I think a 4F deferral is being excused from military service for medical (incl. psychological) reasons. It's figured in scads of American novels.

[porcy62]

what Nugent neglects to mention is that, to avoid the draft, he took the classic 1960s drug cocktail so he could go to the draft board with his vital signs run amuck - and so he, too, received a 4f deferral.

biggest damn hypocrite in the world.

And what is that cocktail? Just curious...

Me too, an exaustive explanation, please. I need it for my novel. And what was a 4f deferral? I am serious.

Art Pepper describes at least one such cocktail in Straight Life iirc...

I think a 4F deferral is being excused from military service for medical (incl. psychological) reasons. It's figured in scads of American novels.

Does Pepper's book describe in particular this fact?

And what does it mean "It's figured in scads of American novels"?

I apologize for my bad english.

[AllenLowe]

yes, 4f was a medical rejection -

the info about Nugent I got from an article a while back, and I'd have to research it (it might turn up on google) -

as for the cocktail, I don't know the ingredients - however, Curley Russell told me that a lot of the guys in Benny Carter's band did the same thing - as he told me, I think (and this conversation was 30 years ago) it was some combination of benzedrine and alcohol and who knows what else - uppers versus downers, guaranteed to wreak havoc with your metabolism and blood pressure and heartbeat (if it didn't kill you).

Unfortunately those guys are all dead (meaning Benny Carter's late 1930s, early 1940s band) - though maybe it's buried away in some book or oral history. I can make some calls (maybe talk to someone at Rutgers) to see if anyone ever went on the record -

Edited July 4, 2007 by AllenLowe

[porcy62]

yes, 4f was a medical rejection -

the info about Nugent I got from an article a while back, and I'd have to research it (it might turn up on google) -

as for the cocktail, I don't know the ingredients - however, Curley Russell told me that a lot of the guys in Benny Carter's band did the same thing - as he told me, I think (and this conversation was 30 years ago) it was some combination of benzedrine and alcohol and who knows what else - uppers versus downers, guaranteed to wreak havoc with your metabolism and blood pressure and heartbeat (if it didn't kill you).

Unfortunately those guys are all dead (meaning Benny Carter's late 1930s, early 1940s band) - though maybe it's buried away in some book or oral history. I can make some calls (maybe talk to someone at Rutgers) to see if anyone ever went on the record -

Thanks Allen, it would be very useful for me.

[J Larsen]

At one point he bragged to a reporter that he jacked himself up on meth to get the 4F, then later claimed that the reporter was too stupid to realize that he was just bullshiting and that he had in fact received a student defferal (which I didn't realize existed).

Edited July 4, 2007 by J Larsen

[T.D.]

Does Pepper's book describe in particular this fact?

And what does it mean "It's figured in scads of American novels"?

I apologize for my bad english.

Sorry, I think I was incorrect about Pepper: he actually served in the US Army in World War II, and the "cocktails" he described may have been designed to mislead parole boards about heroin use.

Re. the other point, many many American novels, particularly from the Vietnam era, described leading characters' efforts to obtain 4F exemptions, thus avoiding wartime service.

I'll check my shelves to see if I have any quotable novels around...

[AllenLowe]

here's Ken Levine from the Huffingon Post:

"Ted Nugent? Legal guardian of a 17 year old Hawaiian girl to avoid statutory charges. The man who got a draft deferment by reporting to his draft board with a week's worth of excrement and urine in his pants ..."

Edited July 4, 2007 by AllenLowe

[porcy62]

Does Pepper's book describe in particular this fact?

And what does it mean "It's figured in scads of American novels"?

I apologize for my bad english.

Sorry, I think I was incorrect about Pepper: he actually served in the US Army in World War II, and the "cocktails" he described may have been designed to mislead parole boards about heroin use.

Re. the other point, many many American novels, particularly from the Vietnam era, described leading characters' efforts to obtain 4F exemptions, thus avoiding wartime service.

I'll check my shelves to see if I have any quotable novels around...

Thanks.

I remember the fact from the movie "Big Wednesday", it would be very useful for me to have an exact list of drugs.

[Chuck Nessa]

At one point he bragged to a reporter that he jacked himself up on meth to get the 4F, then later claimed that the reporter was too stupid to realize that he was just bullshiting and that he had in fact received a student defferal (which I didn't realize existed).

Some guy named Dick Cheney knew all about student (and other) deferrals.

[porcy62]

here's Ken Levine from the Huffingon Post:

"Ted Nugent? Legal guardian of a 17 year old Hawaiian girl to avoid statutory charges. The man who got a draft deferment by reporting to his draft board with a week's worth of excrement and urine in his pants ..."

Actually, regarding close friends, it seems that old Ted didn't change too much...

[AllenLowe]

and here's another account, differs somewhat from what I heard, but even better:

From a July 15, 1990 Detroit Free Press profile:

And he is equally proud that the Michigan Legislature this year proclaimed him a "wholesome, traditional" man of "honesty, integrity, loyalty and patriotism."

But Nugent wanted no part of Vietnam. He claims that 30 days before his draft board physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last 10 days, he ingested nothing but Vienna sausages and Pepsi; and a week before his physical, he stopped using bathrooms altogether, virtually living inside pants caked with his own excrement, stained by his urine.

That spectacle won Nugent a deferment, he says, although the Free Press was unable to verify his draft status.

[marcello]

What, you don't know?

Take as much speed as you can handle, stay up for a couple or three days, eat lots of sugar and then when you have you vitals taken, it will seem that you are on the verge of having a stroke. And you may be! Hell, throw a little acid in the mix to really make you unstable, if you can handle it.

Now at one piont in the war, that would work. Later when they needed more cannon fodder, you had to be a little more creative. Maybe you do all of that and tell them that not only you are gay, but you would love to learn all you could about weapons so you could kill all of the straight people you could find when you get back.

Once in Toronto, I walked into the El Macombo when the Amboy Dukes were playing there. There must have only been twenty people in the house and Nugent did this little act of playing one loud feedbacked note while he fell face forward on the stage. He must have done that five times.

Edited July 5, 2007 by marcello

[AllenLowe]

about the Carter band - I'll call Ed Berger at Rutgers - he knew Benny very well, and he of all people might know details - I probably won't be able to reach him until next week -

[porcy62]

What, you don't know?

Take as much speed as you can handle, stay up for a couple or three days, eat lots of sugar and then when you have you vitals taken, it will seem that you are on the verge of having a stroke. And you may be! Hell, throw a little acid in the mix to really make you unstable, if you can handle it.

Now at one piont in the war, that would work. Later when they needed more cannon fodder, you had to be a little more creative. Maybe you do all of that and tell them that not only you are gay, but you would love to learn all you could about weapons so you could kill all of the staight people you could find when you get back.

Once in Toronto, I walked into the El Macombo when the Amboy Dukes were playing there. There must have only been twenty people in the house and Nugent did this little act of playing one loud feedbacked note while he fell face forward on the stage. He must have done that five times.

Thanks!

BTW I was rejected by italian army because they judged me "mental unstable" and they feared to give me a loaded gun. True story...I think you already understood it from my posts

Edited July 4, 2007 by porcy62

[porcy62]

about the Carter band - I'll call Ed Berger at Rutgers - he knew Benny very well, and he of all people might know details - I probably won't be able to reach him until next week -

Thanks, I appreciate it. I am not in hurry.