Leni Riefenstahl passes on

[Adam]

Well, this thread might get political, but I was just told that she passed away today.

Her official page:

http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/

LA Times AP report:

http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-...a-home-leftrail

Hitler's Filmmaker Dead at 101

From Associated Press

BERLIN — Leni Riefenstahl, whose hypnotic depiction of Hitler's Nuremberg rally, "Triumph of the Will," was renowned and despised as the best propaganda film ever made, has died. She was 101.

Riefenstahl died Monday night at her home in the Bavarian lakeside town of Poecking, mayor Rainer Schnitzler said.

Riefenstahl's companion Horst Kettner said she died in her sleep.

"Her heart simply stopped," Kettner told the online version of the German celebrity magazine Bunte.

A tireless innovator of film and photographic techniques, Riefenstahl's career centered on a quest for adventure and portraying physical beauty.

Even as she turned 100 last year, she strapped on scuba gear to photograph sharks in turquoise waters. She had begun to complain recently that injuries sustained in accidents over the years, including a helicopter crash in Sudan in 2000, had taken their toll and caused her constant pain.

Despite critical acclaim for her later photographs of the African Nuba people and of undersea flora and fauna, she spent more than half her life trying to live down the films she made for Hitler and for having admired the tyrant who devastated Europe and all but eliminated its Jews.

Even as late as 2002, Riefenstahl was investigated for Holocaust denial after she said she did not know that Gypsies taken from concentration camps to be used as extras in one of her wartime films later died in the camps. Authorities eventually dropped the case, saying her comments did not rise to a prosecutable level.

Speaking to The Associated Press just before her 100th birthday on Aug. 22, 2002, Riefenstahl dramatically said she has "apologized for ever being born" but that she should not be criticized for her masterful films.

"I don't know what I should apologize for," she said. "I cannot apologize, for example, for having made the film 'Triumph of the Will' -- it won the top prize. All my films won prizes."

Biographer Juergen Trimborn, who wrote "Riefenstahl: A German Career," said she could not apologize because the Nazi films were the centerpieces of her career.

"One can't speak about Leni Riefenstahl without looking at her entire career in the Third Reich," Trimborn said. "Her most important films were made during the Third Reich -- 'Triumph of the Will,' 'Olympia,' -- that's what's she's known for."

The former president of the Goethe Institute honored Riefenstahl as an aesthetic model for many directors around the world.

"Now that she is dead, we can distinguish between the aesthetic Leni Riefenstahl and her political entanglements," said Hilmar Hoffman.

But Germany's Culture Minister Christina Weiss said Riefenstahl's life tragically demonstrated that "art is never unpolitical, and that form and content cannot be separated from one another."

Riefenstahl said she had always been guided by the search for beauty, whether it was in her images of the 1934 Nuremberg rallies with thousands of goose-stepping soldiers and enraptured civilians fawning for their Fuehrer, in her dazzling portrayal of the 1936 Olympic athletes in Berlin, or in her still photographs of the sculpted Nuba men.

"I always see more of the good and the beautiful than the ugly and sick," Riefenstahl said. "Through my optimism I naturally prefer and capture the beauty in life."

Born Helene Bertha Amalie Riefenstahl in Berlin on Aug. 22, 1902, she was the first child of Alfred Riefenstahl, the owner of a heating and ventilation firm, and his wife, Bertha Scherlach.

Riefenstahl's artistic career began as a creative dancer until a knee injury led her to switch to movies.

After she saw one of Arnold Fanck's silent films set in the mountains, Riefenstahl presented herself to him as his new star, and he accepted, as much for her blue-eyed, high-cheekboned beauty as her daredevil spirit.

She climbed rocks barefoot for the camera and was buried in an avalanche for the death scene in the 1926 film "Mountain of Destiny." Soon, she was making her own films, fairy tales such as "The Blue Light" celebrating Germany's Alpine mystique, in which she was star, screenwriter and director.

She heard Hitler speak for the first time at a 1932 rally and wrote to him -- again offering her talents. In her memoirs, Riefenstahl describes her first impression of Hitler's charisma.

"It seemed as if the earth's surface were spreading out in front of me, like a hemisphere that suddenly splits apart in the middle, spewing out an enormous jet of water, so powerful that it touched the sky and shook the earth. I felt quite paralyzed."

Though she said she knew nothing of Hitler's "Final Solution" and learned of concentration camps only after the war, Riefenstahl said she confronted the Fuehrer about his anti-Semitism, one of many apparent contradictions in her claims of total ignorance of the Nazi mission.

Likewise, she defended "Triumph of the Will" as a documentary that contained "not one single anti-Semitic word," while avoiding any talk about filming Nazi official Julius Streicher haranguing the crowd about "racial purity" laws.

Many suspected Riefenstahl of being Hitler's lover, which she also denied. Nonetheless, as his filmmaker, Riefenstahl was the only woman to help shape the rise of the Third Reich.

She made four films for Hitler, the best known of which were "Triumph of the Will" and "Olympia," a meditation on muscle and movement at the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

She married once, in 1944 to army Maj. Peter Jacob, but the couple split three years later. She had no children, and her only sibling, Heinz, was killed on the eastern front during World War II.

Riefenstahl spent three years under allied arrest after the war, some of the time in a mental hospital. War tribunals ultimately cleared her of any wrongdoing but suspicion of being a Nazi collaborator stuck. She was boycotted as a film director and sank into poverty, living with her mother in a one-room apartment.

She reclaimed her career in the 1960s when she lived with and photographed the Nuba.

"I've never laughed so much as I did when living with the Nuba. I became reconciled with myself," she said.

She next turned to underwater photography, diving in the Maldives, the Indian Ocean, the Red Sea, and off Papua New Guinea. She learned to dive when she was 72, lying about her age by 20 years to gain admittance to a class.

Around this time, she met Kettner, a fellow photographer half her age who became her live-in assistant and companion.

At age 100, she released a new film based on her dives, "Impressions Under Water."

She said she hoped she would be remembered as "an industrious woman who has worked very hard her whole life and has received much acknowledgment."

A funeral was planned for Friday in Munich.

Edited September 10, 2003 by Adam

[The Mule]

Straight to Hell....

[bertrand]

GFR

Bertrand.

[jacman]

maybe i'm getting old, but i kinda felt sorry for her. before i go any further let me preface with this:

i am an American born Jew. my grandparents escaped eastern Europe just before WW1 and i lost some family to Communists, and Nazis. my father and both grandfathers fought in Europe and the Pacific during WW2.

i think that she, like most other Germans and many other people were captivated by Hitler's speeches. remember, Post WW1 Germany was a shambles. high unemplyment, horrible economy. Hitler came along and promised them the world. he stirred in them a national spirit that they had lost. he blamed their woes on the Jews, and that was that. the German people needed a scapegoat, and Hitler's anti-Semitism fit right in.

i don't know if she knew of the death camps. she claimed she didn't. i've seen 2 of her films, Triumph Of The Will and Olympia. both are amazing movies. i've also seen the documentary about her: The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Reifenstahl. that too was a great movie.

i'm not apologizing for her or anyone involved with any form of anti-Semitism. i think she was a great artist, who didn't see (or chose not to see, as many Germans did) the atrocities that were happening right in front of her. history, for now, will refer to her as Hitler's Movie Maker. i think that is punishment enough.

well, that plus an eternity in hell.

[White Lightning]

I've seen Olympia and it's an amazing film indeed. If I'm not mistaken - that was the first time slo-mo was being used on screen.

Re Mora vs Art: I'm reminded of the controversy arises everytime Wagner or R.Strauss is being played in Israel.

Untill recent years no one in Israel played their compositions, and when one symphony or another tried to - there was a lot of controversy, even physical clashes in front of the symphony hall. No public media radio or TV is playing them even today.

Should we wait till the last of the survivors die until we'll allow Wagner's music to be played in Israel?

Can we detatch Wagner and Strauss' Artistry from their beliefs and from their support and encouragement of the Holocaust (In Stauss' case?)

Riefenstahl's films were made as a propaganda tool. Very artful propagand but propaganda nonetheless. However, they had and still have alot of artistic merit. Should we disregard the filmaker's intentions while making them? Can we?

I personally believe we should. Once an artist finishes a piece, it becomes the property of all of us in a sense. We can all interpret enjoy the art as we please, eventhough the artist didn't mean it this way. Cencoring Art because of the Artists' beliefs and even deeds deprives us of that treasure and makes even Art - PC.

However, I know that my grandparents, who were in Bergen-Belzen concentration camp think differently...

[jacman]

i love to see all of the BMW's and Mercedes' in the parking lot at the Temple. short memories.

[White Lightning]

Don't forget the Fords. Even shorter memory...

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

i love to see all of the BMW's and Mercedes' in the parking lot at the Temple. short memories.

Well, why shouldn't they be there?

[Christiern]

Barak's first post makes a lot of sense to me--whether she was a Nazi sympathizer or not, her work was extraordinary and pioneering. If we were to dismiss all work by people whose political beliefs go against our own, we would be much poorer for it.

[Simon Weil]

You need a very particular sensibility to make a work of art that successfully glorifies evil. In so doing you partake of evil yourself, unconsciously or not.

That's it. End Story.

Simon Weil

[Simon Weil]

You need a very particular sensibility to make a work of art that successfully glorifies evil. In so doing you partake of evil yourself, unconsciously or not.

That's it. End Story.

I do not agree with you completely here. As I wrote above, I think her works not only glorify the evil of the nazi ideology, but some deeply ingrained German ideals. Many of those are still held high these days. It is her refusion to separate the two that make many feel uncomfortable with a perfectly healthy sense of beauty the people have.

Well I see artistic sensibility as something not divisible. You do a work of art and it incorporates all that's around and within you on some level. That's how it achieves its cohesiveness and integrity as a work of art, because you achieve integrity of self-expression with your own particular circumstances.

But if you then have a person creating a work of art fused in an intrinsic way with surrounding evil, that can only imply that that person's sensibility itself achieves integrity in the presence of evil - and for evil.

A person's sensibility can also achieve integrity in the presence of evil, but working against it. One might even suggest that Jazz (taken as a whole) was like that, as a form that projected a self-image of blacks that fought the evil of racism and segregation.

Couw, I think you need to separate what R did from the problems of Germans now.

Simon Weil

[Simon Weil]

Couw, I think you need to separate what R did from the problems of Germans now.

Yes, and if I do I arrive at the same or similar conclusion as you do. I was trying to address the dichotomy in the reactions that Riefenstahl provokes. The problems or second thoughts the Germans have now were completely absent then. Even outside Germany, it seems, there was hardly any opposition to this glorification. I think we (as in humanity) can learn a lot from that.

Yeah, I think that's a valid point at least in theory. The reason I make this rather ungenerous response is that I am kind of sardonic about the range of positions that Post-Nazi liberals can avail themselves of in doing nothing, while yet professing to be against evil.

Bitterly yours,

Simon Weil

Edited September 10, 2003 by Simon Weil

[Jazzmoose]

It would have helped a lot had she just once uttered something even only close to remorse about making those propaganda films that helped the nazis to rise to power.

This sums it up for me. She can claim she didn't know about the death camps at the time, but she damn well knew about them later. I know it's difficult for anyone to allow themselves to believe it when they commit an evil act, even unintentionally, but come on...

[Simon Weil]

Sorry Simon, I don't quite understand your last post (it has a lot of difficult words!). Please elaborate.

Oh, God...It's like this. In Germany the vocal opposition to Hitler didn't exist after a certain point. Partly because people didn't really have those doubts and second thoughts you refer to - they didn't know, as we do now, where those (Nazi) things led.

So that's fine and I accept that. But what we have now is people who know where things lead, protest about it, and then do nothing really. That's a new Liberal approach which I see from the 80s on in the West.

The lack of proper liberal response to the slide to semi-fascist stuff in the US since 9/11 is an example.

I also think Liberal Jews need to get their act together about Israel.

Simon Weil

Edited September 10, 2003 by Simon Weil

[The Mule]

Barak's first post makes a lot of sense to me--whether she was a Nazi sympathizer or not, her work was extraordinary and pioneering. If we were to dismiss all work by people whose political beliefs go against our own, we would be much poorer for it.

Sorry, but her most famous work of art indirectly led to the deaths of tens of millions. Her disgusting ode to fascism is still screened by neo-Nazis in musty little basements to enthralled true believers to this day. As Couw said, she spent the rest of her very long life defiantly, arrogantly, unrepentant and in denial.

Strike up a conversation with an African-American about how much they admire the artistry of BIRTH OF A NATION sometime.

Straight to Hell.

[PFunkJazz]

Good riddance to the bitch. Shame millions of Nazi race/war victims didn't enjoy a similar lifespan.

And shame on her apologists. They don't belong here.

[ajf67]

I'm with Mule and Moose.

[maren]

Strike up a conversation with an African-American about how much they admire the artistry of BIRTH OF A NATION sometime.

Very apt comparison.

QUOTE (couw @ Sep 10 2003, 01:43 AM)

It would have helped a lot had she just once uttered something even only close to remorse about making those propaganda films that helped the nazis to rise to power.

This clinches it. My widowed mother has had a boyfriend for the past 5 years (good for her!) who was drafted in Germany at age 16 in 1943 and sent to the Russian front. Luckily for him he was captured and held by the U.S. as a prisoner of war. Worked for the U.S. occupation post-war because they determined he held no Nazi beliefs -- emigrated to Canada as soon as he could. Has spoken very eloquently, humbly (with tears in his eyes and a catch in his voice but not showboat theatrics -- seemed genuine and not manipulative to me) about being "sold a bill of goods" as a teenager, seeing the horror it led to, being eternally remorseful. Even so, MY teenage son, whose father is Jewish, did not feel inclined to appreciate the niceties of coercion and subsequent remorse ("he's a Nazi! a dirty, dirty Nazi!" my son said to me in the car afterwards, having behaved graciously at dinner and said a nice goodbye) -- makes sense, given that we're always asking teenagers "if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?"

Anyway: she never copped to her role in some gigantic crimes.

[Christiern]

Good riddance to the bitch. Shame millions of Nazi race/war victims didn't enjoy a similar lifespan.

And shame on her apologists. They don't belong here.

What a stupid remark!

The propaganda film she made for Hitler is undoubtedly her best-known work--in fact, I bet it is the only work most people associate with Riefenstahl. It is, however, not her only legacy.

Shame on her apologists? I think there are many of us who recognize her considerable talent and are not afraid to say so. Nobody is making apologies for her political views, and most of this lady's work was not political. Besides, there is no evidence of her knowing the true extent of Hitler's evil at the time when she made the Nazis on Parade film. Many people--not just Germans--were suckered into support for or acceptance of the Nazis during the 1930s, that includes such highly regarded Americans as Lindbergh and Ford. Does that in any way diminish the former's accomplishment? Does it mean that we should not drive or ride in a Ford vehicle?

"They don't belong here"

Crap, Mr. anonymous. That's a very fascist kind of attitude, isn't it?

Edited September 10, 2003 by Christiern

[PFunkJazz]

Christiern asks: "Does that in any way diminish the former's accomplishment?"

Answer: of course it does!

Can't you see that? Or won't you see that? But most tellingly: WHY IS THIS SO IMPORTANT TO YOU? What is driving your concern? I fear the worst.

And I'm no more "anonymous" than you, unless you mean why haven't I got a mug shot on the members' pages.

Your's makes you look like the ex-Nazi author in Mel Brooks' The Producers, by the way.

[PFunkJazz]

But it's true! Christiern looks like a dead ringer for the ex-Nazi author in Mel Brooks' movie The Producers! If it wasn't for his dodgy politics it would be funny. As it is, it's rather frightening.

[Christiern]

PFunk, your hatred and ignorance is coming though! I won't get into an exchange with you, but I don't think your posts on this subject leave us with a favorable impression. Hatred is always ugly, no matter which side of the fence it emanates from.

[catesta]

Chris it is true what couw said, she never did seem remorseful.

It is I'm sure also true what you say about many being suckered into support of the Nazis. However, you would think the ones suckered would make it a point to say so.

[Adam]

Well, I thought it might get political. I wonder if B3-er should move it to the Politics forum?

Or maybe I should delete the thread?

(No I won't)

[PFunkJazz]

I hate racial supremacists.

and Christiern comes over like a closet Nazi. As the Bard wrote: "Methinks she doth proeest too much."

And he does look the ex-Nazi author in Mel Brooks' movie The Producers. Check out the Members' page. It's the only funny thing about this entire thread.