Interview: Pete Gershon, editor,Signal to Noise

[Lazaro Vega]

http://houstonist.com/2007/10/03/interview_pete_1.php

October 3, 2007

Interview: Pete Gershon, editor, Signal to Noise

Signal to Noise is a globally distributed quarterly magazine focusing on improvisational and experimental music. You'd be hard pressed to find a larger, more eclectic mix of album reviews and artist spotlights in any other publication. It's celebrating its 10th birthday this year. Editor Pete Gershon now calls Houston home and sat down with us to talk about his magazine and his favorite topic – music.

How did Signal to Noise begin?

Ten years ago, I was living in Burlington, Vermont, doing some freelance music writing for a couple of regional weekly arts rags. Luckily, the editors gave me a lot of leeway and let me write about whatever I wanted to, but I wanted to take things a step further. At that point, I was sensing that there was a continuum of improvisation which ranged from jam bands like Phish and the Grateful Dead, to modern jazz acts like Charlie Hunter, Medeski, Martin & Wood, and then all the other stuff coming out of downtown New York’s Knitting Factory scene, like John Zorn, the Lounge Lizards, that kind of thing. None of the other music mags were really focusing on the connections between these types of music. Signal to Noise has evolved a lot in ten years, and now it’s more accurate to say that we’re covering the confluence of avant-garde jazz, electro-acoustic improvisation, and left-field modern rock. A lot of the music we feature really transcends whatever genre labels you might want to apply to it.

Why did you move from Burlington to Houston?

I got married. I’m originally from upstate New York and went to Hampshire College, a liberal arts college in Western Massachusetts that focused more on evaluations than grades. I met my wife, who is a Houston native, when we were going to school there. We rekindled our relationship around the turn of the century, and I have been living in Houston off and on since 2001. I moved down here permanently in 2005 after we had our first baby, so we could be close to her career and family.

How did the name Signal to Noise come about?

The magazine was originally called Soundboard, but I had to change the name after about a year because of a conflict with another publication in another part of the country. It was hard to find a new name hat everyone liked, but eventually a friend suggested I call it Signal to Noise, which seemed to resonate with what we were doing. We’ve operated under that name since 1998.

Why a print magazine in the age of the Internet?

I firmly believe there are a lot of people who spend their day in front of a computer at work, and when they get home, they'll want to kick off their shoes, sprawl on the couch, and actually enjoy the tactile experience of turning some pages. I guess it's the same way some of us will always dig shopping for CDs in a brick and mortar store and putting records on the turntable as opposed to downloading MP3s. I love the Web, but it seems like something is always lost in the digital transaction.

Who are some local artists/musicians that you find inspiring?

Houston has always been home to great blues and jazz music. Artists like Kenny Dorham and Arnett Cobb come to mind, but of course it goes back even further than that. The tradition extends from artists like Pauline Oliveros, Mayo Thompson and the Red Krayola, the 13th Floor Elevators, to Charalambides, outsider singer-multi-instrumentalist-enigma Jandek, DJ Screw, Linus Pauling Quartet and Rusted Shut. Devendra Banhart, he of the unfortunately-named “freak-folk” movement, is going to be on the cover of our next issue, and he was born right here in Houston. But I should stress that I’m still new in town, and I’ve got a lot to learn about the local scene, past and present. I’ve just barely scratched the surface, and now that I have kids, it’s tough to get out at night and check it all out.

Are there enough outlets for experimental music?

Well, there are some. KPFT and especially Rice University’s KTRU play artists that you will rarely hear anywhere else. I especially like Dave Dove’s show on KTRU. Dave also heads up Nameless Sound, a non-profit organization that teaches kids, for free, to express themselves through musical improvisation. What he and the members of his Youth Ensemble do is absolutely amazing. The clubs seem to do a really good job of bringing interesting music through town, and the proximity to Austin is also helpful in this regard.

Tell me about the writers.

They’re spread all throughout the U.S. – many of them in New York, Chicago, the west coast – even in Europe; in fact, I’m met very few of them face to face. They range from some of the most accomplished veteran writers in the field to talented upstarts that have never had their work published before. I really don’t go searching for writers; most of them contact me, because they love the magazine and they love the music.

How do you differentiate yourself from other music magazines?

We are probably the only magazine in the US that offers this particular mix of musical styles. The music we are dealing with is so on the fringe that I don’t think anyone else is crazy enough to want to cover it. For years, it was kind of a money pit, but we’re finally gaining some traction. I think it’s pretty obvious that it’s a pretty non-commercial venue, and consequently people can really trust our writers’ opinions about the music they’re writing about.

Will there ever be a Signal to Noise festival?

Funny that you mention that. We’ve had some preliminary discussions about a Signal to Noise showcase at SXSW next March. It’s all still in the works, though, but the idea is to host a night of Houston-based talent. We used to hold concerts at our office up in Burlington. It was a dusty old warehouse, and musicians would play for tips, but for a lot of them it was a fun stop-over between Boston and Montreal. I don’t know if we ever drew more than 30 people, but some of these concerts wound up being issued on CD.

If you could be a Houston landmark, what would it be?

I would say the River Oaks Theater, except that I wouldn’t want to be bulldozed by a heartless realty company. So instead I’ll be content to be the Cy Twombly Gallery at the Menil Collection.

You can find Signal to Noise at most local music retail stores.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Lazaro Vega

[Guest Bill Barton]

Hey, at least Pete knows when and where a capital letter is apropos.

[7/4]

[clifford_thornton]

I'll be putting together an article on Alan Sondheim for their winter issue. This'll be my first STN experience, so we'll see how it goes. I'm looking forward to it, in any event.

[Guest Bill Barton]

I'll be putting together an article on Alan Sondheim for their winter issue. This'll be my first STN experience, so we'll see how it goes. I'm looking forward to it, in any event.

Welcome aboard, I think that you'll enjoy working with Pete. Contrary to the opinions expressed above, I can verify from personal experience (I've written off-and-on for STN since 1999) that he is very much a "hands on" editor. It's pretty much a one-man show there and it continually amazes me that one committed, passionate person can put out such a high-quality 'zine. Obviously my take on it is very different than clementine's... And I did find the personal attacks a bit over the top.

[clifford_thornton]

while even The Wire blows it sometimes-- Alan Licht's stultifying interview w/a near-autistic Tom Verlaine comes first to mind,

Now THAT I'd like to read...

[7/4]

I like David Toop's writing. I haven't seen it it a while, but then 1.) I don't think he writes for the Wire anymore and 2.) I stopped getting the Wire for now. Too much $$ for too little interesting content.

[Lazaro Vega]

I remember reading Rafi Zabor in The Wire all the time.

Still hit Signal to Noise for feature interviews with Cecil Taylor, Louis Smith, and with this upcoming concert by Abrams/Mitchell/Lewis in Ann Arbor, Howard Mandel's cover story from StN was primary source material in preparing to speak to Abrams.

Yes, a sharp, no nonsense editor; yet oft times editorial professionalism is what excizes the most specific musical content. Would like to read the un-handled Terry Martin in StN, as opposed to his curtailing by professional editors who don't think the audience can hang with detailed, long form criticism, or dig the detailed material he'd use to support his opinion.

So much of jazz magazinedom is slickly laid out vertical, horizontal and three dimentional marketing intended for sole commercial use of the play by play chorus cast that a little student flubbery on occasion is tolerable.

Pulling back to what's been learned in the trenches is often occluded by the rise of the fox hole walls. Down and down I go, round and round I go, in a spin, look at that spin I'm in....

[7/4]

I remember reading Rafi Zabor in The Wire all the time.

I remember reading him in Musician. I'm pretty sure I still have all the ones I bought, I just can't get at them right now.

[JSngry]

Down and down I go, round and round I go, in a spin, look at that spin I'm in....

You been hangin' w/Unkle Skid?

[Uncle Skid]

Down and down I go, round and round I go, in a spin, look at that spin I'm in....

You been hangin' w/Unkle Skid?

[Lazaro Vega]

S'kidin'.

7/4: righto, Musician.

[Guest Bill Barton]

edc takes it his wife's job ain't proofreading? Nope. I'd wager that there are fewer major typos in STN than in most grassroots publications though. granted they probably don't pay shit (if that) Yes indeed, you've got that right!!!!!... (animal collective 2007, snoooooooooooooooze.) Granted, probably 50 to 75 percent of the music covered doesn't necessarily interest me either. But I applaud the diversity.

again, $4.95 later-- design mostly sucks, esp. the reviews; make narrower columns w/no indentation? if this was Beckett or Bernhard, okay... but it ain't. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. In general, I disagree. If it's as bad you say how come the Jazz Journalists Association has nominated it in the "Best Periodical Covering Jazz" in 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007? ...

if any of ya'll actually value writing/printed magazines as much as the idea of the musics this rag covers, it's long past time to tell this simp Gershon to raise his game A LOT. on a scale of 1-10, i'd rate this a C- at best. "Professional" criticism? Calling somebody a simp strikes me as a tad unprofessional and pretty damned personal.

recycling paper tomorrow morning if any of ya'll want it FREE Thanks for the offer but I already have a copy..

...the problem is Gershon seems the archetypal well-meaning witless "fan." Now, there's another really well-reasoned professional criticism if I ever heard one. that's OK insofar as only naive persistence would keep the thing going but without SOME greater artistic vision wrt the editing & writing... the thing's a fucking disaster...

Bill, it's an explicit PROFESSIONAL attack, not a personal one; i'm even at goddamn pains to acknowledge Gerhson's "good intentions" wrt to music, if not to literature, or design. if he's "hands on" as you say-- & edc has no reason to doubt you-- then doublefuck him twice & his witless arrogance. I beg your pardon? "Witless arrogance" isn't a personal attack? "Doublefuck him twice" isn't a personal attack? Sigh... I'm not planning to get into a pissing match with you. As I said before, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Perhaps - in another world - my opinion wouldn't count anyway, I suppose, because of "conflict of interest." Well, I have been a contributor for nearly eight years, but that doesn't mean that I have any "vested interest" in such a shoestring operation.... i just figured eh, he's doing what he can w/limited resources Yes, you've got that right! & someday he'll bring in a real editor IMHO he is a "real" editor. (not a f/t job but someone to solicit & push writers) & he can stick to the publishing side. More ads from Bard & Chicago Art Institute, please!

even the garbageman wouldn't take STN #47 so it's still here, Bill: open up to page 72 & tell me what's right about that fucking Waylon Jennings review. do that & i'll tell you TWENTY things wrong with it-- that's some "editing." As I said before, probably 50 to 75 percent of the music covered doesn't interest me either, so I'm not about to tell you what's right with a review I have next to no interest in. In fact, I'll even grant you the "point" (if we're keeping score) that the layout on that one is hard to read. I hate the white-on-black concept.

I'm relatively new to posting here on this board, so I'm not totally familiar with the personalities of ya'll yet. It just seemed to me that you were inviting a flame war with the choice of language and confrontational attitude here. That's how it strikes me. I'm not interested in that sort of crap. I had my fill of it on the old JC board when DEEP was in rare form and at JCS in days of yore.

So, hey, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Period.

[AllenLowe]

geez guys, S to N just gave me a nice full page review in the fall 2007 issue - so they can do no wrong for me -

and I will say, though I have some deep philosophicall problems with much of the new music presented in their pages (I talk about his in my liner notes to Jews in Hell; suffice to say that so much of that music represents a generation that has learned to talk the talk but still plays the same-old warmed-over new-age-sounding, semi-drone cliches; same problem with The Wire. Every year I get that damned issue with the Wiretapper CD of new music and every year I am astounded at how crappy and tired most of it is) - it at least it gives a sense, like no other contemporary music publication, of what people are doing musically, for better or worse.

And Bill, don't let Clementine get to you - he and I used to fight all the time, until I found out that he volunteers at the local soup kitchen every Sunday, rescues stray kittens in his spare time, knits quilts with the names of Iraqui civilian casualties on them, hosts a Fresh Air Fund child every summer, runs the local Dachsund Rescue League, runs bake sales for the Junior League, and organizes yearly visits to the fomer World Trade Center for the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

Edited October 8, 2007 by AllenLowe

[Lazaro Vega]

And that stopped the fighting why?

[AllenLowe]

never did recieve the French review - do you have a copy? What publication was it in?

forgot to mention, also, that Celmentine won the Nobel Peace Prize for that vaccine he developed to cure all child cancers -

and how can anybody who has a reference letter from Mother Theresa be all bad?

And I'm looking forward to that next on-air interview with Terry Gross - hopefull by than he'll have gotten his Congressional Medal of Honor -

Edited October 8, 2007 by AllenLowe

[jon abbey]

no love for my Houston live review in the current issue, Clem? I don't write very often but I was pretty happy with how that one came out.

[Guest Bill Barton]

...And Bill, don't let Clementine get to you - he and I used to fight all the time, until I found out that he volunteers at the local soup kitchen every Sunday, rescues stray kittens in his spare time, knits quilts with the names of Iraqui civilian casualties on them, hosts a Fresh Air Fund child every summer, runs the local Dachsund Rescue League, runs bake sales for the Junior League, and organizes yearly visits to the fomer World Trade Center for the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

Hey, maybe I'll have a chance to swing by and hook up with some of that soup or even the baked goods next time I'm on the east coast, put some color in my cheeks and meat on my bones, pasty-faced stoic Yankee that I am... I never knew that Queens was such a renowned center of loving kindness and compassion.

...cut the soft feelings Barton & tell me where the good-to-great writing or criticism is in STN, & what Gershon's role in encouraging/shaping it has been? i'll actually admit Dan Warburton is cranky enough to be a passable toilet read...

Okay, I'll bite... It's too bad Warburton doesn't do more writing for STN, he's an interesting read IMO (I particularly liked the Malcolm Goldstein piece.) Nate Dorward has contributed some good material in the reviews section, Stuart Broomer and Jason Bivins too. Howard Mandel has penned some fine feature articles. I liked Michael Chamberlain's fairly recent Jean Derome article. Ed Hazell, Kurt Gottschalk, Christian Carey and Jon Abbey have also done some excellent pieces. That's off the top of my head... Writers come and go... What's Pete's role in this? You'll have to ask him. Edited October 8, 2007 by Bill Barton

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, I'm no fan of Meyer either (nor was I when he wrote for Magnet and maybe AP [that's "Alternative Press"] back in the 90s), but the other guys you mention, Bill, are dandy. Warburton's always a kick and I wish he were still editing Paris Transatlantic!

[Simon Weil]

I subscribed for a while to StN and have the first 20 odd episodes. But what I don't get is why anybody should be terribly engaged by it. It has a good vibe (or had) and good energy but the pieces never seemed to be terribly penetrating. And in the end my subscription lapsed...

It seems like the Ken Vandermark of magazines in sense of good vibe/sense but without real engagement.

Kind of like a warm bath.

Simon Weil

[AllenLowe]

well - and I honestly felt this way even before they gave me a good review - I think they, along with Cadence, try more than any other publications to keep up with what new musicians are doing and saying. It doesn't always (or even often) work, but at least they are engaged with that world. I find this somewhat satisfying and, as I said before, important as documentation, at the very least - another interesting thing is that they, unlike most jazz publications, seem to have made a special effort to deal with women musicians. We forget how sexist the jazz world continues to be - after all, aside from me before my operation, how many women post here? Probably can count them on our fingers - if that's your idea of a good time -

[Guest Bill Barton]

well - and I honestly felt this way even before they gave me a good review - I think they, along with Cadence, try more than any other publications to keep up with what new musicians are doing and saying. It doesn't always (or even often) work, but at least they are engaged with that world. I find this somewhat satisfying and, as I said before, important as documentation, at the very least - another interesting thing is that they, unlike most jazz publications, seem to have made a special effort to deal with women musicians. We forget how sexist the jazz world continues to be - after all, aside from me before my operation, how many women post here? Probably can count them on our fingers - if that's your idea of a good time -

Some very good points here, Allen. I think that the word "engaged" is the best description yet of what STN is about.

[Chas]

We forget how sexist the jazz world continues to be - after all, aside from me before my operation, how many women post here? Probably can count them on our fingers

The statistical disparity in the gender of jazz aficionados is not probative of sexist discrimination against female jazz musicians . If anything it gainsays such a claim , if we assume that appreciation precedes musicianship . The only valid inference from the statistical disparity in the gender of jazz aficionados is that it is not the result of some aleatory process . A claim of discrimination based merely on this disparity amounts to question begging . What cogent arguments exist for the claim that it is sexism that prevents women from becoming jazz aficionados ?

[Guest Bill Barton]

gimme (edc) a fucking break, Bill. i assume yr a nice guy & all, sincerely, but who gives a shit about niceties when it comes to journalism, & writing, & art? so if Gershon is so goddamn "engaged," where is the article on, say...

Tina Marsh? So, hey, suggest it to him. He's not fucking psychic.

the list of names you gave as being better are, at best, adequate. i don't wanna embarrass a brother but we have one of the best of all jazz writers here on the board; HINT: his name ain't Howad Mandel... So, if all these guys are barely adequate, who the hell do you like?

[jon abbey]

Abbey, i ain't read yr piece yet but i'll try to critique it later-- if it's hot, i'll tell you the truth but i hope you didn't get all solemn & shit-- Rothko Chapel, ooooooooh...

actually, i'll say too, tho' i was declared the winter in the 3rd round TKO re: we the people versus electro-acoustic music, if you are gonna do something, do it well & within his bounds Abbey seems to have kept the quality control switch ON. get Keith Rowe to jam with Stars of The Lid & we'll never need another drone record again!

well, that was friendlier than I expected, thanks. I try to stick to producing records, curating festivals and other live shows, and distributing other labels, and leave the criticism to others. but when I'm in attendance at an event that I think shouldn't disappear unnoticed, sometimes I take it upon myself to report on the events from my vantage point, which is what I did there. and not sure if you've been to the Rothko Chapel or not, but pretty tough to avoid a solemn/serious tone when discussing it, Rothko had killed himself before it was even finished and the actual paintings are pretty oppressive.

next, we already don't need another drone record, especially involving SoTL. I've been trying to get Keith to break up his drones as much as possible for 2-3 years now (you should check out Between, last year's double CD with him and Toshi Nakamura, for some evidence). he's playing Issue Project Room on the 23rd and 24th, you should come by.

back to the topic, I could sit and poke holes in StN all day, but I really don't see the point. Pete's doing his best and there's a fair amount of quality stuff in most issues, Jason Bivins is my current favorite writer in this field (way better than Warburton, who tries to hear everything and ends up doing justice to very little), Jon Dale is another one who can be quite good. FWIW, The Wire is dreadful on reviews of current material, they're much better with their historic pieces (I disagree with Clem's Licht criticism, I think Alan is usually pretty good, especially on NYC-based older artists).

the bigger point is that there are virtually no insightful music critics these days, in any area of music, largely because there's no money in it whatsoever except as a launching pad to bigger and lamer things (Neil Strauss, I'm looking at you). the real shame is that someone like Clem, opinionated as fuck and almost as knowledgable as he thinks he is, mostly just sits on the sidelines and slams other people instead of just going out and doing better himself, kicking ass and taking names.

talkin' loud and saying nothing,

jon

Edited October 10, 2007 by jon abbey