I can no longer trust new USA vinyl production....

[wolff]

This will be short. Maybe others can chime in.

RTI has not disclosed the fact that they have been using terribly inferior vinyl.

Hoffman board deleted a 100 post thread(not my post #101, the whole thread) when I called a spade a spade.

They have betrayed my trust. At least in the 70's we were told.

These guys did not say shit when they could not get good vinyl, but still

charged $30+ an LP!!!!!

Another complete thread at Hoffman's deleted when I said RTI was not up

front and honest. WOW!!

I knew the mods there were whack, but not this bad.

LSS...the pressing QC totally butchered the lastest Hoffman re-masterings(which were great) of ZZTOP and James Taylor.

Edited November 4, 2007 by wolff

[Claude]

Are only the Warner reissues concerned by this?

[wolff]

Anything done at RTI in Cali(too bad the fires missed these chumps) is what I am talking about. Warner sounds right, but anything pressed at this plant is also game. From what I gather(and assumed from the start), RTI is to blame for the bad Classic Records pressings, yet they were tight lipped for years.

This guy Hoffman, as much as I like his work, is a complete pussy. He knew this shit and said nothing. What a cunt!!!

The deleted threads had more info.......

[sidewinder]

Which ones should we watch out for. Is it just Classic Records or are there others?

[wolff]

Which ones should we watch out for. Is it just Classic Records or are there others?

Well, the Blue Note 45RPM series by our friend Ron Rombach at Music Matters comes to mind...how's that???

A third thread questioning RTI was deleted. And I've been the last post on these threads. Entire threads GONE!!!!!!

Most LP's brag about being pressed at RTI, so it should not be hard

to spot them.

LMAO..3 threads from the Hoffman board are gone. I read that place once every couple months.

I noticed a ton of bad comments about RTI. I made 3 comments/observations, and 3 entire threads are gone!

Entire threads!!!! That Hoffman is a cunt!!!!

Edited November 4, 2007 by wolff

[J.A.W.]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others. Like it or not, in that sense the Hoffman site is not independent.

That said, I think it is inappropriate not to address the issue of bad vinyl, especially in view of the high prices of the records. If they don't want to do that publicly, they should at least provide customer service contact info and refer complaints to the manufacturers.

Edited November 4, 2007 by J.A.W.

[porcy62]

I remember that Hoffmann said once that the QC problem was the 200gr pressing (Classics), but it didn't affect the 180gr. If Wolff is to believe and I trust him, all this is a BS, glossed over tech explanation. The truth, plain and simple, is that they can't obtain, for whatever reasons, good quality vinyl, or they bought a big stock of bad quality vinyl and they are using it. BTW the Test Pressing I had from Ron Rambach sounds good.

[Adam]

Well, in today's simple question, what is "bad vinyl?" how bad is it? How does a common listener discern such a thing?

Should I really care?

[porcy62]

Well, in today's simple question, what is "bad vinyl?" how bad is it? How does a common listener discern such a thing?

Should I really care?

Vinyl is a chemical compound with different substance. Among them oil, during the oil crisis of the '70, the cost of oil pushed vinyl producer to reduce the amount of oil, result: bad vinyl.

A bad vinyl is usually noisy in the silent groove among tracks, much easy to damage and wear when you play it, often is warped, Even brand new bad vinyl has many pops and clicks at the first listening. If I spend 30 bucks for it I care, if I bought a used vinyl for 0.50 $, I don't.

[mikeweil]

If I spend 30 bucks for it I care, if I bought a used vinyl for 0.50 $, I don't.

That's exactly the point!

[six string]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others. Like it or not, in that sense the Hoffman site is not independent.

That said, I think it is inappropriate not to address the issue of bad vinyl, especially in view of the high prices of the records. If they don't want to do that publicly, they should at least provide customer service contact info and refer complaints to the manufacturers.

This is very true. I asked Steve Hoffman some very generic questions regarding magnetic tape quality with regards to lifespan and had posts deleted several times and even got a pm from Steve because he and one or some of his moderators thought I was trying to bad mouth Steve's work, which I wasn't. Steve said his moderators had me on a list and were going to follow me around on the internet and see if I was dissing Steve. (Hi guys!) I guess that means I was almost kicked off the board eveb though I wasn't specifically talking about any particular label or company or person about this matter.

He never did answer some of my questions, even via pms when it came to that. I don't know if he overlooked them or intentionally ignored them, but he wasn't very forthcoming with his answers. I understand why he doesn't feel like he can be straight with us, but if allegations become known facts, it won't look very good for him or RTI.

[J.A.W.]

(...) I understand why he doesn't feel like he can be straight with us, but if allegations become known facts, it won't look very good for him or RTI.

That depends. I understand Steve Hoffman was hired solely to do the mastering, nothing else; if that is correct he cannot be held responsible for the quality of the vinyl. What I think they could do at the Hoffman site, however, is forward any complaints to those who are responsible or at least provide customer service contact info.

Edited November 4, 2007 by J.A.W.

[alocispepraluger102]

ecm during the earlier seventies was using some bad vinyl, in my opinion.

they were the worst to warp and softest grooves i have seen in 50 years.

the european pressings seem to be excellent.

great sound/bad vinyl.

[six string]

(...) I understand why he doesn't feel like he can be straight with us, but if allegations become known facts, it won't look very good for him or RTI.

That depends. I understand Steve Hoffman was hired solely to do the mastering, nothing else; if that is correct he cannot be held responsible for the quality of the vinyl. What I think they could do at the Hoffman site, however, is forward any complaints to those who are responsible or at least provide customer service contact info.

Yes, he is not responsible for the production of the actual vinyl, but since he's involved with the product, I don't think he's really in a position to say anything negative. At least that was the jest of my communications with Steve about the mag tape topic. The industry is a small one and if you bad mouth the end product while it's still in circulation, you might not get the call for the next job.

[J.A.W.]

(...) I understand why he doesn't feel like he can be straight with us, but if allegations become known facts, it won't look very good for him or RTI.

That depends. I understand Steve Hoffman was hired solely to do the mastering, nothing else; if that is correct he cannot be held responsible for the quality of the vinyl. What I think they could do at the Hoffman site, however, is forward any complaints to those who are responsible or at least provide customer service contact info.

Yes, he is not responsible for the production of the actual vinyl, but since he's involved with the product, I don't think he's really in a position to say anything negative. At least that was the jest of my communications with Steve about the mag tape topic. The industry is a small one and if you bad mouth the end product while it's still in circulation, you might not get the call for the next job.

True.

[RDK]

I knew the mods there were whack, but not this bad.

Well, yes, they are that bad.

As for the vinyl, my limited experience with RTI has been exceptional. I dunno - maybe a bad batch? I visited the place once, took the tour, and saw first hand the pressing process and QA. Also saw huge vats of the top quality vinyl they usually use - which leads me to think these defects are an aberation. Still, I agree that spending $30 or more for shitty vinyl is a bad thing.

Oh, btw, "cunt" is generally considered a pretty offensive word.

[mikeweil]

ecm during the earlier seventies was using some bad vinyl, in my opinion.

they were the worst to warp and softest grooves i have seen in 50 years.

the european pressings seem to be excellent.

great sound/bad vinyl.

AFAIK this concerned only the US pressings Warner was responsible for, who distributed ECM in the US at that time, and it was the reason Eicher did not renew that deal. I had two or three of these, they were sold cheaper over here than the German pressings, and they sucked indeed.

[Chuck Nessa]

The bad ECM pressings were the early US Polydors.

[alocispepraluger102]

The bad ECM pressings were the early US Polydors.

working very hard to preserve these, many of them gems.

Edited November 4, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[porcy62]

About ECM, thin vinyl, not the today's hype 200tons, but awesome quality and lasting, German Made, obviously. FWIW I haven't got a german pressing of bad quality: from late seventies' Van Morrison's reissues to early ECM. When I am in a used record's store I look for them, dutch pressings are good too IME.

[Parkertown]

What happened Wolff? Didja get noisy copies of Tres Hombres & Sweet Baby James?

I'm not interested in the JT album so I haven't purchased it but my SH mastered, Kevin Gray cut, RTI pressed Tres Hombres is very nearly perfect. I understand some have received copies with some noise in between tracks and in the runout groove. Mine is flat and silent, with just little noise in the runout groove just after the music ends. It is something that while unfortunate, I can live with. Especially considering the mighty impressive sound quality.

But on the whole, I truly think these $22.99 (ZZ Top, JT, Joni Mitchell), $29.99 (Classic Recs/Speaker's Corner), $32.99 (Cisco), and $49.99 (AP/Music Matters 45 RPM series) should be perfect records.

Of the labels I've purchased so far, only the Speaker's Corner & Cisco products can I say have been absolutely flawless.

[porcy62]

What happened Wolff? Didja get noisy copies of Tres Hombres & Sweet Baby James?

I'm not interested in the JT album so I haven't purchased it but my SH mastered, Kevin Gray cut, RTI pressed Tres Hombres is very nearly perfect. I understand some have received copies with some noise in between tracks and in the runout groove. Mine is flat and silent, with just little noise in the runout groove just after the music ends. It is something that while unfortunate, I can live with. Especially considering the mighty impressive sound quality.

But on the whole, I truly think these $22.99 (ZZ Top, JT, Joni Mitchell), $29.99 (Classic Recs/Speaker's Corner), $32.99 (Cisco), and $49.99 (AP/Music Matters 45 RPM series) should be perfect records.

Of the labels I've purchased so far, only the Speaker's Corner & Cisco products can I say have been absolutely flawless.

If I spend big money I want big stuff and no problems. I can have all JT album's for 20 bucks at my local store, and I mean the whole output of JT. Classics are far away from perfection. The early I bought were better. Agree about Speaker's Corner, they are german Never listened to a Cisco.

[sidewinder]

I've found US-sourced vinyl from 72/73 onwards (time of the oil shock) to be of generally dubious quality so try to go for Japanese and European pressings of more recent stuff where possible. Agree that the German ECMs sound quieter and better fidelity than the Polydor pressings. All time low for warping must be those mid-70s ABC/Impulses - which are wafer-thin.

Major exception though for Mosaic vinyl (both older and Q-LP), which I've always found to be really excellent.

Edited November 5, 2007 by sidewinder

[AllenLowe]

the point here is Hoffman's hypocrisy - because he often criticizes specific work that is done, bad mastering, bad companies, bad pressings - but apparently this is not to be done if he has a direct financial interest - cowardice andd hypocrisy of the worst kind -

and if he had threatened to follow my work around the internet I would have filed a formal complaint with some agency; this is a kind of harrassment -

[porcy62]

the point here is Hoffman's hypocrisy - because he often criticizes specific work that is done, bad mastering, bad companies, bad pressings - but apparently this is not to be done if he has a direct financial interest - cowardice andd hypocrisy of the worst kind -

and if he had threatened to follow my work around the internet I would have filed a formal complaint with some agency; this is a kind of harrassment -

Did he?