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troyk

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I'd love to hear the jingle, Quincy. I've got a pet rabbit (she lives in my living room and gets a lot of free-run time), and the Bunny Bread slogan ("That's what I said!") reminds me of her, because she's got quite an attitude. (Though she's also very sweet.)

I never thought to look before, but here it is!

The Bunny Bread Jingle

Almost sounds like Tennessee Ernie Ford. Well, almost.

Hee hee, I feel about 35 years younger!

Where I grew up, that jingle was for Butternut Bread!

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welcome then!

Well, thank you!

You are greatly encouraged to post in other threads while you're here.. :unsure::blink:

Have been looking at the Conference call thread on AAJ, clearly the heat is still on, mainly because folk there seem to like, or can't resist, pouring gasoline on the fire. I wish they would calm down because I would hate to lose the AAJ board even though I like the big O one too. There's even a photo of the great Sir Menzies Campbell trying to mediate in this current jazz debacle and pointing out where AAJ BB might be heading if it doesn't straighten itself out soon...

_44178232_ming_toilet416_pa.jpg

Edited by RogerF
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welcome then!

Well, thank you!

You are greatly encouraged to post in other threads while you're here.. :unsure::blink:

Have been looking at the Conference call thread on AAJ, clearly the heat is still on, mainly because folk there seem to like, or can't resist, pouring gasoline on the fire. I wish they would calm down because I would hate to lose the AAJ board even though I like the big O one too. There's even a photo of the great Sir Menzies Campbell trying to mediate in this current jazz debacle and pointing out where AAJ BB might be heading if it doesn't straighten itself out soon...

_44178232_ming_toilet416_pa.jpg

We're just backfiring to save the village.

Sandi from Hermosa Beach

Edited by EulaM
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I just returned from a lengthy trip to the forum from hell--lengthy, because I read, in full, the thread that discusses the problem. Very interesting, but also disturbing. It is something that I saw coming when a heavy-handed moderator decided to go after me, presumably because my political views are diametrically opposed to his (notice that none of the right-wing posters have been banned :)). I met Mike Ricci many years ago, when he was starting the site. We had lunch and I was very impressed with his plans, so I told him that I would be glad to give him reviews and articles that I had written for Stereo Review and other publications over the years. He liked the idea, so I started uploading what became an archive, a part of the cornerstone for AAJ. Since then, Mike has given his site character and made it a useful, important resource. He is still developing new features, and yesterday he told me about some that are around the corner, including at least one that could benefit other jazz sites, as well.

The way I see it, Mike is under enormous pressure with all that work (he is also in the middle of moving to a new home), but that is, of course, not an excuse for letting things get out of hand. Speaking only of the bulletin board, his biggest mistake, IMHO, has been his choice of moderators. These are people whose persona, ability to interact with an eclectic group of people, and sense of fairness is of utmost importance. They set the tone for the board (hence my earlier analogy to Michael's Pub), they are also put in a position of power, which is something not everyone can handle. This guy from Ottawa obviously can't, and I am neither the only one to be targeted nor the only one to notice his serial abuse.

It appears that this guy's involvement with AAJ goes beyond the BBS and that he now will give up moderating the forum--that's a good sign. Clearly, AAJ has lost some of its most knowledgeable members, people like Chuck Nessa, MG, Bev, Lonson, Saundra, and others who love the music and stimulate thought, people who who shared their relevant experiences with fellow posters and answered many questions. Frivolous censorship does not sit well with independent thinkers. Free exchanges of ideas and thoughts can easily lead to an off path, but most such eruptions, if let alone, subside and let posting go on. There are also civil ways in which to settle differences, and barring posters--even short-term--is not the answer. It didn't work at AAJ, it only led to the present arguments and exodus. The Ottawa moderator is being very defensive but his arguments are an insult to intelligence. Some exiles will probably return, but I think much will depend on whether the atmosphere at AAJ can be made breathable. Let's hope this misguided bully's replacement is chosen with the care and foresight that was missing when he was handed the reins. I may be all wrong about this, but that's how I see it based on my own experience with this guy and what I just read in that thread.

In the meantime, it's good to see y'all here and I hope you stay.

My 2¢ worth and I'm through with this sorry topic.

Edited by Christiern
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I just returned from a lengthy trip to the forum from hell--lengthy, because I read, in full, the thread that discusses the problem. Very interesting, but also disturbing. It is something that I saw coming when a heavy-handed moderator decided to go after me, presumably because my political views are diametrically opposed to his (notice that none of the right-wing posters have been banned :)). I met Mike Ricci many years ago, when he was starting the site. We had lunch and I was very impressed with his plans, so I told him that I would be glad to give him reviews and articles that I had written for Stereo Review and other publications over the years. He liked the idea, so I started uploading what became an archive, a part of the cornerstone for AAJ. Since then, Mike has given his site character and made it a useful, important resource. He is still developing new features, and yesterday he told me about some that are around the corner, including at least one that could benefit other jazz sites, as well.

The way I see it, Mike is under enormous pressure with all that work (he is also in the middle of moving to a new home), but that is, of course, not an excuse for letting things get out of hand. Speaking only of the bulletin board, his biggest mistake, IMHO, has been his choice of moderators. These are people whose persona, ability to interact with an eclectic group of people, and sense of fairness is of utmost importance. They set the tone for the board (hence my earlier analogy to Michael's Pub), they are also put in a position of power, which is something not everyone can handle. This guy from Ottawa obviously can't, and I am neither the only one to be targeted nor the only one to notice his serial abuse.

It appears that this guy's involvement with AAJ goes beyond the BBS and that he now will give up moderating the forum--that's a good sign. Clearly, AAJ has lost some of its most knowledgeable members, people like Chuck Nessa, MG, Bev, Lonson, Saundra, and others who love the music and stimulate thought, people who who shared their relevant experiences with fellow posters and answered many questions. Frivolous censorship does not sit well with independent thinkers. Free exchanges of ideas and thoughts can easily lead to an off path, but most such eruptions, if let alone, subside and let posting go on. There are also civil ways in which to settle differences, and barring posters--even short-term--is not the answer. It didn't work at AAJ, it only led to the present arguments and exodus. The Ottawa moderator is being very defensive but his arguments are an insult to intelligence. Some exiles will probably return, but I think much will depend on whether the atmosphere at AAJ can be made breathable. Let's hope this misguided bully's replacement is chosen with the care and foresight that was missing when he was handed the reins. I may be all wrong about this, but that's how I see it based on my own experience with this guy and what I just read in that thread.

In the meantime, it's good to see y'all here and I hope you stay.

My 2¢ worth and I'm through with this sorry topic.

Just to say that in all seriousness, I love both this board on which I have been posting a lot longer than my avatar would suggest (I lost my original pw in an server outage a while back and had to start again) and AAJ. I would dearly love you guys who left AAJ recently to consider returning to it because your intelligent and perceptive and often humourous contributions are genuinely missed, by all, and I mean all. I don't think Mike R intended to start a brushwood fire and in fairness to him he has been involved in other matters lately which may have affected him. Please consider returning to the fold but even if you do return it doesn't mean we can't or won't want to continue posting on the Big O...lots of things to say and like TV, I watch more than one channel.

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They banned Lonson? :blink::wacko: Man, that speaks volumes about that place. I can't even find his name on the member list--were his posts all expunged along with his registration? Ridiculous! I've been reading Lonson's posts here, there, and on the old BNBB for, oh, five years now, and I have never seen him write anything that would come even close to meriting a warning, let alone being banned. He's one of the nicest, most-liked members of the online jazz-board community. Some serious dysfunctionalism over there...

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The way I see it, Mike is under enormous pressure with all that work (he is also in the middle of moving to a new home), but that is, of course, not an excuse for letting things get out of hand. Speaking only of the bulletin board, his biggest mistake, IMHO, has been his choice of moderators. These are people whose persona, ability to interact with an eclectic group of people, and sense of fairness is of utmost importance. They set the tone for the board (hence my earlier analogy to Michael's Pub), they are also put in a position of power, which is something not everyone can handle. This guy from Ottawa obviously can't, and I am neither the only one to be targeted nor the only one to notice his serial abuse.

Your entire post is worth reading, and I particularly agree with your perception of Mike R. I personally have not had an issue with Kelman, but I understand that numerous people have over minor issues, but some of his own comments on the subject were of value - especially those concerning Seeline/Clave laying low. I say this, as I have in email to Clave, because her initial posts were directed at the future of the board based on actions such as her banning. When it turned personal is when everything went awry imo (no matter who started it, there is always a high road). If the point of the intial posts were concerning the future of the board that conversation has finally arrived, so let's discuss that point.

I also spoke with Mike Ricci on the phone on Wednesday for a little over half an hour. And while I don't particularly agree wth some of his desicions (eg Lonson, Clave) I also agree that I don't know what has gone on behind the scenes. One point of contention that either Mike is adding on now or Clave has failed to point out from the beginning (even in emails to others and myself) is the point of being banned only for a week.

My primary offering to Mike was that a new regime should be instilled at the forum. Kelman and Mike want out of moderation so let's move them out and introduce a new set of governers and re-establish the rules (including the staus of the musician forums).

Personally I feel the squeaky wheels have gotten the grease here. If people were complaining in the musician forums that others were detracting from conversation I think this is laughable (especially JayNorem who I see go offtopic all day posts as if he is only interested in the theory behind chord resolutions). As a side note, Mike said he didn't know anything about the Blues thread...

As Eula/Sandra pointed out over at AAJ it's a shame that people who complain over minor things appear to have been satiated by actions that were not warranted while adults and and those who understand interpersonal communication (as well as the horrible shortcomings of purely textual communication) do not bother moderators when someone flames. Often in these cases those flaming even realize how dumb they are acting later on. If, as Mike says, he and mods have historically recieved a lot of communication concerning a member, then ideally the conversation would be looked at and handled from there. Instead, under the pressure of current projects and the number of responses, I think a simple lapse had begun and then the flames grew from there...

I have had acocunts at both boards for some time now, I have not been posting for about two weeks at all really though becuase I don't think I should really care either way. Both boards will survive either way. People come and people go. Sometimes they return...

Ellen, I would say this: Mike has offered to talk (and I and others have asked him for that), don't refuse him now as I think some people who have gone to bat for you will feel that you did not uphold your end of the bargain since that is what you have been calling for all along. As far as not responding to your calls for a conversation, two things: 1) he was moving, etc. 2) many have asked that he change his mind and discuss things with you...

You don't have to return to AAJ, but at least that way people knows that parties tried and people can go from there...

Mike

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They banned Lonson? :blink::wacko: Man, that speaks volumes about that place. I can't even find his name on the member list--were his posts all expunged along with his registration?

You can see his profile here.

Thanks--his name doesn't come up on the member list (unlike here... only a tiny handful of people have ever been banned, but you can still find them on the list... a la the infamous Greg M). It also appears that some posts must have been deleted, as the most recent ones are from July 2007 and are perfectly innocuous. Whatever... I gotta say, too, that when the occasional dispatch of a truly psychotically-amok poster has been done here, it's come with a grain of humor:

ACTIVATING BAN PROTOCOL V12.34-778

SORRY YOU CLOWN NOW YOU BUTTED HEADS WITH TEH GREAT MASTERHIT. I PWN J00 WITH MY 1337 H40R1N6 S|<1llZ BIOTCH!!LOLZ!!@#!#@434343

OMG MY BURRITO

:D

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Thanks for the comments, Mike. Kelman has handled the forum very unprofessionally, IMO, but Mike R has also overreacted. Short-term banning is no solution, just a slap on the wrist that creates resentment or deepens one that already exists. Unfortunately, the Board also has some members who are chronic complainers and appear to see themselves as auxiliary forum police, and when their political bent is in the right direction--as it were--they have Mr. K's ears and impulses on their side. I said I was through with this topic, but (having impulses of my own :)) I felt compelled to jump in with a response.

Menace FYI: DEEP is alive and well. He chairs the Bernie Nierow branch of the HBMBAS (Henry Benson Memorial Blues Appreciation Society), which meets about 6 times a year.

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If I were Ellen and I were forced to accept a different set of rules than all other posters (i.e., not being allowed to post in certain forums), I wouldn't go back.

I don't think it's fair to have different rules for different posters.

Nor do I.

for the record, though i was told in an email that I was only banned for one week, the ban notification on the board indicated pretty clearly that the ban was permanent. Maybe it has a default setting that has to be customized per poster? I honestly don't know.

It seems futile at this point to pursue any kind of discussion, there or here, in public or in private. So on that score I disagree with you, wordsandsounds.

At any rate, I don't wish to discuss the situation further in a public forum. It's done, and I truly do need to move on.

EDITED TO ADD: i was also told that if I attempted to post in either M2M or theory, I'd be banned again... and so on.

Edited by seeline
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Menace FYI: DEEP is alive and well. He chairs the Bernie Nierow branch of the HBMBAS (Henry Benson Memorial Blues Appreciation Society), which meets about 6 times a year.

So he was merely exiled!!! That is not how Comrade Beria would have handled matters, but I defer to and salute you for your maintenance of friendly relations with Mr. DEEP, whose rain (reign???) of torrential posts I found to be at times borderline-abusive.

Now this jkelman, he seems rather a clumsy, heavy-handed oaf. It sounds as if an immediate purge of moderators is needed. Shall we extend to them the services of Comrade MasterHit?!?! :eye:

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Red Menace???? Where's he been? He's mad at me for trying to teach him how to waterboard. :ph34r:

Waterboarding??? Bah, the stuff of rank amateurs!!! <_< Though I have noted that certain methods favored in the Lubyanka (how I miss its rigorous, character-building environs!!!) seem to have been taken up by the security chieftains of this great land. Yes, how you lambasted and demonized us for such tactics, but we were merely trying to show you the way!!! And what did we get for our troubles??? Ongoing barrages of Stinger missiles. A fine way of demonstrating gratitude!!! :ph34r: But past grievances aside, don't you think that perhaps you and I should pay this AAJ camp a visit, Mein Freund??? :D Only severe doses of humor, sternly administered, can cure what ails them!!! :rsmile:

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Red Menace???? Where's he been? He's mad at me for trying to teach him how to waterboard. :ph34r:

Waterboarding??? Bah, the stuff of rank amateurs!!! <_< Though I have noted that certain methods favored in the Lubyanka (how I miss its rigorous, character-building environs!!!) seem to have been taken up by the security chieftains of this great land. Yes, how you lambasted and demonized us for such tactics, but we were merely trying to show you the way!!! And what did we get for our troubles??? Ongoing barrages of Stinger missiles. A fine way of demonstrating gratitude!!! :ph34r: But past grievances aside, don't you think that perhaps you and I should pay this AAJ camp a visit, Mein Freund??? :D Only severe doses of humor, sternly administered, can cure what ails them!!! :rsmile:

Just go and steal their smilies!

MG

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Nor do I.

for the record, though i was told in an email that I was only banned for one week, the ban notification on the board indicated pretty clearly that the ban was permanent. Maybe it has a default setting that has to be customized per poster? I honestly don't know.

It seems futile at this point to pursue any kind of discussion, there or here, in public or in private. So on that score I disagree with you, wordsandsounds.

At any rate, I don't wish to discuss the situation further in a public forum. It's done, and I truly do need to move on.

EDITED TO ADD: i was also told that if I attempted to post in either M2M or theory, I'd be banned again... and so on.

I understand Seeline, I just know that I and numerous people tried to bridge a gap here and so, personally, not talking about it (so much better than email or pm) seems like these types of efforts are for naught.

Nonetheless, it was you who were banned so I completely understand your point.

As far as the Musician Forumm that is a completely different topic...

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I understand Seeline, I just know that I and numerous people tried to bridge a gap here and so, personally, not talking about it (so much better than email or pm) seems like these types of efforts are for naught.

Nonetheless, it was you who were banned so I completely understand your point.

As far as the Musician Forumm that is a completely different topic...

The ban was (apparently) about my posting in the M2M and theory forums, but I was never told why, by MR or anyone else.

Per yesterday's posts on the "conference call re. the state of the board" thread, that was still an issue, and I've yet to receive any communication as to why. No answers have been offered to anyone, really.

So then, best to move on.

And i am deeply appreciative of your efforts - and those of many others - on my behalf. I just simply don't think this is resolvable in a way that's satisfactory to all parties, including those who might have complained about my posts in M2M.

Edited by seeline
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