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There Seems to be a Consensus


Dan Gould

The Best Way To Keep the Board Going  

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OK, as Joe G. said, it looks like a consensus is emerging, so let's see how the membership as a whole feels. Understanding that it is Jim's board and his final decision, the ongoing thread and the responses here should show him how important the board is and the preferred way forward.

I think that solving the financial side of things will ease but not eliminate the strains of running the board, but its a big start if we can formalize a system whereby Jim will no longer be responsible for the financial side of having the board continue.

Beyond that, decisions need to be made about admin functions, specifically the question of volunteer moderators as well one or two people empowered to interact with the hosting company regarding service outages and the like, plus installation of any software updates. I suggest that people willing to perform these duties should volunteer in this thread; otherwise, Jim can choose to use the "tap the shoulder" method that we once had in place for the BFT and approach people he'd like to have on the team himself. Either way, its all going to be his decision, this poll is just meant to get a formal sense of what the group supports.

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voted for quarterly donor drives... maybe with some moderators doing the driving for jim alfredson

for reasons vaguely related to this board i don't have things like a credit card or a paypal account, haven't contributed anything yet but will make up for that soon, i don't have much but i do have more than a year ago...

edit, got a paypal account now, money should get on its way once it is loaded...

Edited by Niko
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I guess quarterly would be fine, so you can just skip if you're in a bad situation, and if three months later it looks better, you can pay some - I guess it's not bad intention that keeps many of us from donating something... so regular reminders wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd certainly not pay something quarterly, but it wouldn't bother me to see a donation pop-up or banner or just one of those fixed (what's the word for that again?) topics somewhere (maybe even on top of all parts of the forum for say, one week).

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Option 2 seems to overlap somewhat with Options 3-5. I'm shocked someone voted for Option 6.

I was surprised too, at first. But maybe that option is really saying to let Jim finance it in any method he chooses, such as soliciting for donations, making it a subcriber-only board, etc (?).

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I think transparency is the main issue. I donated only occasionally, not knowing what the financial situation of the forum was. If I knew how much the forums costs to Jim, I would have donated $10 every month.

That's why I am in favor of a subscription system.

Edited by Claude
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I haven't voted - yet.

One of the things we don't know about is how many of us are actually going to shell out, since it's voluntary. The number affects the choices for method. If there are a hundred, the amount would be small, and it's probably not worth anything other than an annual drive. Fewer people, more money each has to contribute, and the more frequent options look more attractive.

I think we need a feel - or Jim needs a feel - for what numbers are realistically up for contributions.

MG

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I'm with Lon on this...

The poll mentions the money part of the equation, which is the most tangible part of the situation, but it doesn't say squat about moderators. If there was a way to answer multiple ways, I'd say the following:

quarterly fund drives are optimal, but really, this is Jim's board, and he needs to do with it what he feels is best.

Under no circumstances do I think he should pay for us to hang out on his dime, using his bandwidth and hard drive space. And unfortunately, this isn't a situation where people can pay with services in kind. So, cash is the way to go.

That said, the fact is that this is a board run by a band. Not fans of a band (like Umphree McGee's "bort"), not a record company, or anything of the like. This is run by one guy who decided to be nice and open up his website to a whole bunch of cyber slackers needing a place to converse. I can't possibly imagine how much effort must go into getting this live, protecting it from hackers, keeping the peace, etc, etc, etc. And that doesn't even mention the idea that someone might think that the band promotes some of the crazy shit talk that happens in some of these threads. If this site has taught me one thing it's this: don't ever add a forum/bulletin board to my website.

If anything, I think the smartest thing that could happen would be that someone with the time, energy and resources to run this thing would buy it off of him and run it themselves, thus ridding Jim of the problem, while still allowing access to the board for the people that come here everyday to talk all of the stuff that gets talked about on a daily basis.

(why do I always end up writing essays whenever I start typing?)

As to why monthly drives are not a good idea: if you mention something so often, it becomes very easy to tune out. Better to really make a hard sell 3-4 times per year and try to get a bunch of people interested than to give people the chance to ignore it.

That's my $0.02.

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I think semi-annual fundraisers are best. Paypal (for example) would eat up too many fees if paid in smaller amounts monthly.

I don't think there's any good way of "policing" voluntary contributions - I think it must fall on everyone's conscience as to how much and how often they can donate. But it does look like $20-30 per 70-100 people should be the annual goal. And if the immediate (say, annual) goal is reached, any "extra" funds could go toward sustaining the board for a longer period of time.

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I think semi-annual fundraisers are best. Paypal (for example) would eat up too many fees if paid in smaller amounts monthly.

I don't think there's any good way of "policing" voluntary contributions - I think it must fall on everyone's conscience as to how much and how often they can donate. But it does look like $20-30 per 70-100 people should be the annual goal. And if the immediate (say, annual) goal is reached, any "extra" funds could go toward sustaining the board for a longer period of time.

:tup:tup:tup

forget my posts (just in case you haven't yet), this here sounds more reasonable

Edited by Niko
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Option 2 seems to overlap somewhat with Options 3-5. I'm shocked someone voted for Option 6.

More than one person now! For the record, considering the relatively exhaustive choices above it, option 6 was the "I'm not going to pay a stinking dime for this place, if he wants to keep the board, don't buy the kid any new shoes for a couple of years. If he doesn't want to keep the bird, c'est la vie."

I thought that option 2 was fairly distinct since it depends on a set group of people to cover the expense for everyone, at a set rate, while the other options assume that a much larger group will donate what they can. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Anyway ... it now appears that yearly and semi-annual or quarterly pledge drives are equally popular, so Jim may want to think twice about what he posted in that other thread. I honestly expect that this current crisis situation is going to result in sufficient funds to cover 2008. Jim said he was over $600 in paypal, so there was more coming snail mail I'm sure, and that was before the determination was made that he should be relieved of the burden of funding the board.

So, we will most likely be looking at a fund drive starting say, October-November 2008. I'd suggest that at that point we see if the full-boat can be raised again, and if not, Jim can announce that a second drive will start in May for the second half of the year.

I totally agree with Paul that a monthly drive, while easy to meet the goal of $175 or so, would be so omnipresent as to become too easy to ignore.

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I voted for the annual drive.

So far, 45 members have voted for paying some money. I think this gives us some idea of the number of people who would regularly contribute. There may be a few others there who have not bothered to vote, but they would pay some dollars as well.

Perhaps at this stage, the right kind of poll would be a simple...would you pay some $ each year to keep this forum alive? Yes? or No? After we see the numbers, then we could get an idea as to how much on average each individual needs to pay. Obviously, some of us are better off than others. Just pay as you can. I've been unemployed for a year and I've gone back to school on borrowed funds. At the same time, I'll find a way to contribute. Everyone can. It doesn't have to be much. Just pay as your circumstances allow.

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Obviously, there is an inverse relationship between frequency of pledge drives and the amount that would need to be raised/donated on a given drive: more frequent fundraisers, less required per drive. While participants may face different financial challenges at different times of the year, my preference would be for a single, annual fundraiser. My sense is that the "annual subscription" amount shouldn't be too burdensome for most folks to deliver all at once, especially if they could plan ahead a bit (take those last few CDs out of your shopping cart--come back to them later). Maybe make the collection of funds at the beginning of the year--New Year's resolution, starting the year off right, investing a little capital into a project that produces high returns (in terms of enjoyment etc). Maybe that timing would not be good for people that get a bit overextended purchasing holiday gifts, but your contribution here would be another gift, a gift to yourself and this community of jazzheads. Since it would be voluntary, those folks that needed to spread payments over a period of time could do so. But with a once-a-year setup, we wouldn't all receive frequent prompting for additional cash. [Maybe there is a way to use PMs for folks that need to "finance" their donation over a period of time.]

As noted, more frequent requests would be easy to tune out. A major defect of PBS, in my opinion, is the (what seems) constant begging for bucks, and the turn to self-help nonsense that they don't show any other time of year. While it is necessary to pay the bills, asking for donations distracts from why we really congregate here [...insert your own punchline about astronaut sex, or ...].

In addition to having one fundraising period, I think it would be good to have a well written paragraph or two explaining to a newcomer what the deal here is (how this place is run/funded, what makes it special), and placed, if possible, where it would be seen by guests or newly registered participants, and not get too much in the way (maybe pinned somewhere?). It would encourage donating in the intervening period. Plenty of good writers (...maybe fewer good typists) around here, so it should be possible to craft something that is reasonably effective without sounding too much like begging, guilt tripping, self-congratulatory etc.

Twelve months may be a long time, so in addition, perhaps an occaisional nudge (if the current balances are not high enough) from someone on Jim's Board of Directors, aimed in part at folks that became active after the most recent organized collection of funds. Maybe a broadcast PM to all of us directing folks to a new thread in the forums discussion area which would be passing the hat.

Naive paypal question: If I donate without using a credit card (I use funds from a balance held at PayPal), doesn't the recipient (maybe if it's not itself a business) get the full amount? That's how I read the Paypal fees. So if you don't have a bank account linked to Paypal, sell a few CDs on eBay, insist on Paypal payments without CC, and donate the proceeds here!

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So far, 45 members have voted for paying some money. I think this gives us some idea of the number of people who would regularly contribute. There may be a few others there who have not bothered to vote, but they would pay some dollars as well.

I didn't vote, but I did make a payment today.

I think if there was a meter or running tally of what amount of funds the board currently has, that would help dictate how frequently we'd need to pay.

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Patrick, when paypal funds get withdrawn they get their cut - regardless of whether or not it was paid by C/C or checking account (I'm pretty sure that's the way it works).

As to Conn.'s comment - We've got about $1900 dollars to cover. That's $20 to a hundred people. Not very much when you think about it as 1 regular priced CD at Borders, or a couple of mid-line CDs.

My vote was for annual because when it comes up, it will have been quite a while since the last donation, and everyone should be well inclined to do their part. To avoid the New Year's-Christmas financial crunch, I'd start the pledge period in early November, give people a chance to round up the dough before they get stressed by Christmas shopping.

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Is this board becoming like PBS, threads interrupted by members telling us to give money to run the thing. :ph34r:

Seriously, i like the idea of giving money to keep it alive, let's see how much we can raise on the spur of the moment to figure out how long we can keep this baby alive and afterwards maybe a pledge drive with some prize on a regular basis. Maybe every 6 months or every year to keep the thing going depending on how much money we raise.

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Is this board becoming like PBS, threads interrupted by members telling us to give money to run the thing. :ph34r:

Seriously, i like the idea of giving money to keep it alive, let's see how much we can raise on the spur of the moment to figure out how long we can keep this baby alive and afterwards maybe a pledge drive with some prize on a regular basis. Maybe every 6 months or every year to keep the thing going depending on how much money we raise.

Not sure if I want the Organissimo coffee mug or the ........

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Is this board becoming like PBS, threads interrupted by members telling us to give money to run the thing. :ph34r:

Seriously, i like the idea of giving money to keep it alive, let's see how much we can raise on the spur of the moment to figure out how long we can keep this baby alive and afterwards maybe a pledge drive with some prize on a regular basis. Maybe every 6 months or every year to keep the thing going depending on how much money we raise.

Not sure if I want the Organissimo coffee mug or the ........

I say go for the Best of Sonny & Cher. It's been remastered and it's a keeper!

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I favor not goading posters Dan hates by purposely adopting an insulting avatar. He grabbed onto Jerry's avatar as a put down directed at another poster.

None of this means anything, Guys when Dan insists upon being a jerk toward anyone.

Either the flaming stops, or this BBS stops. I think Jim made that clear enough, don't you?

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Don't like (1) or (5) -- the latter for the same reason as J Larsen -- and (6) would make me sad if it meant the end. I voted for (2) because I almost certainly have more dough than I can spend in what's left of my life, given my tastes and needs, and I can't think of a better place or use for it. Hell, tell me what the total annual bill is and I might just pay it, but not if it would make Jim or anyone else feel creepy, as I could see that it might. What I'm saying is that if there are any fat cats here (not that I think of myself that way, but there is what I've just said), then no one should think that the support of those who can afford to give support without pain means that those people then have one iota of ownership or control. This place belongs to Jim, because he's Jim and has done what he's done, and to everyone else who's here -- evenly and equally.

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So how about it, Dan?

You really want this place to continue?

Then drop the get-back avatar.

Dan is Dan and you are you. I had fights with Dan way before you showed up and you really don't want folks to take sides. I suggest you relax.

Why bring personal crap to the board at this time?

Edited by Chuck Nessa
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