Moderators

[Jazzmoose]

Brownie, I sure hope that some day when you're lurking, you'll go ahead and say hello. I understand the need to cut back; I have somewhat this year (although I doubt anyone noticed! ), but surely an occasional hello wouldn't hurt..?

[Tom Storer]

Since self-moderation tends to get weaker when you think you "know" your fellow forum members, the results are not always very civilized, and ultimately not for the best if you want to have a friendly atmosphere which will welcome new members.

Very insightful comment. It's the "insider" problem that often happens with successful forums. Posters get to know each other (or at least each other's online persona, posting style, and general opinions) very well; it becomes easy to joke around, and sometimes it turns to needling. Friction can turn nasty when there's that degree of familiarity. "Familiarity breeds contempt" as the old saying goes. When viewed from the outside by newcomers, a forum at this stage seems full of a strange combination of aggression, silliness, and inside jokes, which is an obstacle to getting new blood. And yet new blood is vital.

EDIT: On the other hand, I agree with Old Don Clementine that if your feelings are easily hurt on message boards, or if you are truly disturbed by people being rude and childish, then you are destined to be truly disturbed and have hurt feelings forever, for people are just like that, especially on the net. On a message board there are no real consequences to flaming, acting out, being insulting, etc. so anyone who doesn't mind other people frowning and disapproving will just go right on doing it. Unless they get no response, in which case they stop. I think a message board is like a bar: if somebody is going overboard, chuck 'em out and don't let 'em back in until they're sober.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Tom Storer

[Tom Storer]

Old posters never die, they just fade away.

It won't be the same without you, brownie, but I know how to get in touch. And we are both in Paris, after all. So give me a call when all your admirers pass through town looking for wine and second-hand CDs!

[Van Basten II]

I can relate to what Brownie is going through, i basically cut ties from a board where i used to be almost 24 hours a day there and obviously posted a lot. Felt i had given what i had to give and it was time to move on to do something else.

So, as one of the frenchies of this board, i'll join the chorus of people who will miss him at the same time i wish him the best and may he find the most pleasurable things to do in life.

Here's for you, buddy.

Adriana says good luck

Edited December 7, 2007 by Van Basten II

[Elissa]

Not having read this thread, I figured that I'd be the perfect candidate to make a Helpful Suggestion . Perhaps someone ought lay out a few simple guidelines in a User Agreement that would help avoid contention? No personal attacks, No spitting in the eye, Consult your higher consciousness before deciding to say things intended to hurt or irk...?

[Guest Bill Barton]

I really hope everybody won't proceed as they've always been doing. Some things have been going in the wrong direction for some time - negativity,

Daniel, what's negativity? I'm curious what your specific examples are, whether elder don clementine's or others. to summarize, i think (tho' i can be forgetful)--

Howard Mandel is a horrible writer (tho' maybe "a nice guy")

Whitney Balliett was a glossy hack w/some facility & value as one who was there but, really, not too bright

Bullshit!

Signal To Noise is a lousy magazine (tho' Pete G. & Bill Barton both showed themselves to be pretty nice)

Gee, thanks (I think... ) My opinion stands that I think it is a good magazine.

Alex Ross is a lousy writer but has so much $$$ & institutional approbation, nobody cares

the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra is ungodly awful repertory band, no matter it's just jobbin' for some of those dudes

Agreed, yes, a thousand times yes!

the Beastie Boys, Springsteen, U2 & quite a few others are #1 on WGAS Community Reactionary Radio

Vandermark is a mediocre player & lousy composer-- too bad Edgard Varese wasn't wrong that time, hah.

Allen Loweis paying homage to Wallace Markfield half the time (& nobody thanks him for it)

Steve Hoffman is a self-aggrandizing windbag & more than half-a-fraud re: audio history

coincidentally, there are 1000s, maybe tens of thousands of musicians, including the three Organissimos who merit more attention except that consensus reality/corporate media rarely grants it, & certainly not w/the consistency of the brand names. All the delicate flowers who can't see THAT deep fast muddy river running through all this got A LOT more problems than frail internet feelings.

(this is a "hotlink,"), goddamn, shit, piece of shit, bullshit, horseshit (apologies to equine americans) & ____ too.

signed edc

p/s: since i never blow even four bar choruses in sports or most miscellaneous, i have no idea what the hell goes on there.

it is heartening to see who the anarchists/libertarians here are & who all... ain't. HELLO IT'S CALLED A ** FORUM!! ** means opening ya'llselves up to potentially "offensive" points of view or styles of expression. while i ain't making the rules, if ya'll don't LIKE that, why not ** start your own blog **, with MODERATED comments, so that YA'LL CONTROL the discussion. even though, edc, for one, likes to peep the weirdness of ALL views, no matter how fucking knuckleheaded or coarse (cuz some people can be real douchebags, double-hah.)

And, believe it or not, edc, I found that little tussle with you over on the STN thread rather entertaining. I agree that some of this stuff is what makes a board like this one truly interesting and not just a dry, ho-hum exchange of information. Shall we say "moderation in moderation" might be the key here?

[porcy62]

Not having read this thread, I figured that I'd be the perfect candidate to make a Helpful Suggestion . Perhaps someone ought lay out a few simple guidelines in a User Agreement that would help avoid contention? No personal attacks, No spitting in the eye, Consult your higher consciousness before deciding to say things intended to hurt or irk...?

Easier to say then to do.

Human mind (or psychology) is an extremely complicated mistery. Actually who knows wich deep feelings a post is going to touch in you, or me?

A post can hurt you because of your personal history, even unconsciously traumas, who knows?

I don't know you deeply, maybe some of my comments, that other people could find harmless and pretty polite, could touch some of your hidden nerves.

To some extent figthing is unavoidable.

BUT, for sure, adult and reasonable people could compose a dispute, that's the main point. IMHO.

[AllenLowe]

and while we're on the subject, seeing Elissa's post, I will say that it would be nice if this site wasn't so much a boys club - not sure how to change certain things, or even exactly what tends to keep women away, but it would be nice if certain members of the jazz community didn't feel uncomfortable here -

maybe I'm completely wrong; wondering what the few women who are lurking out there think -

[catesta]

and while we're on the subject, seeing Elissa's post, I will say that it would be nice if this site wasn't so much a boys club - not sure how to change certain things, or even exactly what tends to keep women away, but it would be nice if certain members of the jazz community didn't feel uncomfortable here -

maybe I'm completely wrong; wondering what the few women who are lurking out there think -

They better be thinking about ironing my shirts and putting some grub on the table.

[Christiern]

Brownie, you will definitely be missed. I understand your need to free up personal time, but I hope you will leave the door open for the occasional visit. As the various reactions make clear, we will certainly keep it ajar for you.

[Guest Bill Barton]

and while we're on the subject, seeing Elissa's post, I will say that it would be nice if this site wasn't so much a boys club - not sure how to change certain things, or even exactly what tends to keep women away, but it would be nice if certain members of the jazz community didn't feel uncomfortable here -

maybe I'm completely wrong; wondering what the few women who are lurking out there think -

Well, I'm not a woman (at least the last time I checked) but I agree with you Allen. It may come across that way. The much-maligned JC has a higher percentage of regular female participants. Go figure...

[Aggie87]

and while we're on the subject, seeing Elissa's post, I will say that it would be nice if this site wasn't so much a boys club - not sure how to change certain things, or even exactly what tends to keep women away, but it would be nice if certain members of the jazz community didn't feel uncomfortable here -

maybe I'm completely wrong; wondering what the few women who are lurking out there think -

I'm going to apologize for the stereotype in advance, but I think in general, the hobby of (and addiction to) music is something that's male-centric. There are women who are every bit as into music, but I think they are more the exception than the rule. I don't think you'll ever get a large dose of women posting about RVGs versus McMasters, or who's done the best Monk tribute album.

[rachel]

and while we're on the subject, seeing Elissa's post, I will say that it would be nice if this site wasn't so much a boys club - not sure how to change certain things, or even exactly what tends to keep women away, but it would be nice if certain members of the jazz community didn't feel uncomfortable here -

maybe I'm completely wrong; wondering what the few women who are lurking out there think -

They better be thinking about ironing my shirts and putting some grub on the table.

Yep, that's where I've been. Almost done and done.

[JSngry]

All the best to Brownie, he'll be missed for sure, and his BFT assistance involving getting something to where it needed to go was both "above and beyond" as well as a little awe-inspiring for a basically "local" American.

Enjoy life!

[brownie]

Ah, and if you reconsider avoiding Madrid in your trips to Spain.... there's a Muga Reserva Special of 1994 vintage waiting for you in my modest cellar!

Agustin, my wife and I have had to push back further trips to Spain for the past few months for various reasons but we do plan to travel (I'll drive) to Andalusia as soon as we can, hopefully next year. Keep the bottle in the cellar so that it is opened and shared when we travel south!

[brownie]

Brownie, you will definitely be missed. I understand your need to free up personal time, but I hope you will leave the door open for the occasional visit. As the various reactions make clear, we will certainly keep it ajar for you.

Christern, I am not really planning to close the door. Just distance myself (as I already stated earlier) from the Board and take care of various things.

I'll be lurking in from time to time and jump into the pool whenever there is a good reason for it

[brownie]

All the best to Brownie, he'll be missed for sure, and his BFT assistance involving getting something to where it needed to go was both "above and beyond" as well as a little awe-inspiring for a basically "local" American.

Enjoy life!

Many thanks, Jim!

You're the best!

Really!

And many, many thanks to all the other wellwishers!

Edited December 7, 2007 by brownie

[Tom Storer]

Now here's an illuminating series of posts, presented here slightly out of order:

One:

not sure how to change certain things, or even exactly what tends to keep women away, but it would be nice if certain members of the jazz community didn't feel uncomfortable here -

maybe I'm completely wrong; wondering what the few women who are lurking out there think -

Two:

They better be thinking about ironing my shirts and putting some grub on the table.

Three:

Actually who knows wich deep feelings a post is going to touch in you, or me?

A post can hurt you because of your personal history, even unconsciously traumas, who knows?

I don't know you deeply, maybe some of my comments, that other people could find harmless and pretty polite, could touch some of your hidden nerves.

Food for thought, catesta!

[RDK]

Um, I'm pretty sure Chris was joking.

[Peter Johnson]

I'll be lurking in from time to time and jump into the pool whenever there is a good reason for it

Brownie, I hope you'll be able to see your way clear to a stateside trip. I'm sure you still have connections in New York, and there's always a place in Philadelphia if you wish!

Cheers,

Peter

[JohnJ]

You are always welcome in Tokyo Brownie!

[Bluerein]

I also hate to see you go but one thing I'm still curious about....why do we only know you as Brownie. I guess that's not your real name (is it?).

[porcy62]

I also hate to see you go but one thing I'm still curious about....why do we only know you as Brownie. I guess that's not your real name (is it?).

No, his real name is Clifford Brown, yeah, that one. I and the others members who met him personally can testify it. He explained us that he was actually bored about how the jazz was going at times, so he decided to arrange a fake incident and retire in Paris where he pursued the research of the Perfect Music. From his latest decision I guess he didn't find it, yet.

Good Luck, Glifford!

Edited December 7, 2007 by porcy62

[EKE BBB]

I also hate to see you go but one thing I'm still curious about....why do we only know you as Brownie. I guess that's not your real name (is it?).

No, his real name is Clifford Brown, yeah, that one. I and the others members who met him personally can testify it. He explained us that he was actually bored about how the jazz was going at times, so he decided to arrange a fake incident and retire in Paris where he pursued the research of the Perfect Music. From his latest decision I guess he didn't find it, yet.

Good Luck, Glifford!

Sure, but the guy still can PLAY the trumpet!

Regards,

Duke Ellington at his 108 (member formerly known as EKE BBB)

[Tom Storer]

Um, I'm pretty sure Chris was joking.

That's the point! It was a harmless joke--but one that lots of women wouldn't find funny at all. So it intersects the point that had been made (be careful with casual comments because you might be pressing someone's button) and the question that had been asked (wonder why more women don't hang around here).

And Chris, I'm not saying you're a despicable misogynist driving women away from Organissimo. Rachel, for example, took it as a joke and replied in kind. But that's just it--anybody can toss off a joke or a little bit of sarcasm without bad intent, you or me or anyone, and it's no big deal for most people, but there might be collateral damage.

Maybe I'm being too earnest.