BruceH Posted December 11, 2007 Report Share Posted December 11, 2007 Tsk, no love for Intimacy of the Blues. I'm going to have to see if I have that and play the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 11, 2007 Report Share Posted December 11, 2007 Hey, I'm not sure I love that one. . . but I like it. Plenty. All those Pablos/OJCs are worth having! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Hey, I'm not sure I love that one. . . but I like it. Plenty. All those Pablos/OJCs are worth having! Not a Pablo issue but a Fantasy. I still have the lp and think it is fine but outclassed by most of the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 I know it's not a Pablo. . . I guess my Pablo/OJC wasn't as inclusive as I meant it to be. I agree, it's outclassed by the others on this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 While it is by no means the only factor, I wonder what such outstanding players as Coleman Hawkins, Sonny Rollins, Benny Carter, Wes Montgomery, and Kenny Dorham would say about edc's opinion of Tommy and Hank? While we will never know for sure, I have a strong suspicion they would consider his views peculiar at best. I imagine that some of these opinions were documented. No? Stan Getz' opinion certainly was. Introducing Kenny Barron on one of his late concert discs (I can't remember which one), Getz remarks, "in jazz, we have three pianists: Tommy, Hank, and Kenny." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Yeah, well, we got three tenor players too - Pres, Newk, & Trane. :g :g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogak Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 eclypso? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 I think it would be a good thing if posters would try and make positive comments about musicians they admire, as opposed to negative comments about musicians they don't admire. Not pointing a finger - I've posted negative comments about musicians. I do know that I learn more and end up checking out recordings when I read something positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogak Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 yet that seems a little wishy-washy. this is not some la la la fantasy land. this is reality. where MEN live. MEN with strong opinions. this negative flanagan talk i am reading is leading to some good discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 yet that seems a little wishy-washy. this is not some la la la fantasy land. this is reality. where MEN live. MEN with strong opinions. this negative flanagan talk i am reading is leading to some good discussion. Just my opinion - like everyone else's posts here. I still would rather read positive opinions - don't think that I learned anything about Tommy Flanagan (or Hank Jones) that I didn't already know before I read this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 clementine's negative opinions remind me of Lester Bangs' writing. Bangs would make very negative remarks about a rock group which was widely loved and critically respected, on the basis of ideas which were certainly different than the mainstream thought, and not always obviously correct. He was thought provoking, and made you question the conventional wisdom and whether you had just swallowed the conventional wisdom whole. I see a value in that type of "poking a needle into the balloon" writing. I would find it more difficult to enjoy a young poster who had not heard much music and wrote things like, "that Duke Ellington sounds so old timey, he's no good." That would be unproductive negativity, in my opinion. There could still be some value in the discussion it would provoke, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 But another point - pianists aren't valued just for their solo abilitiies. They're often hired because of their accompanying skills, sometimes primarily because of their accompanying skills. And on that score, both Jones & Flanagan are more than merely competent. ding! & while edc takes the suggestion of Mr. Marcello quite seriously there's one hell of a difference between making a nice bed for x/y/z & being able build the fucker from scratch from your own design. again, Tommy Flanagan at best is a high level technician capable of pleasantry. If Stan Getz himself had just stuck to that... we wouldn't give a shit what he had to say, about anything. *** (& Tommy Flanagan composed... what?) edc, I don't understand your harping on the question of what did Flanagan compose? All excellent jazz players are not necessarily great composers. You indicated that one of your favorites is Phineas Newborn,Jr., who is certainly not known for his composing skills. Nonetheless, Flanagan did compose quite a few tunes. Some of them quite good ones. Eclypso, Beyond The Bluebird, Minor Mishap, Mean Streets, Something Borrowed,Something Blue, Sea Changes, Verdandi, Beat's Up, Blue Twenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Returning to Ellington, here's a suggestion--go to the Concord music website and buy whatever you don't have already. I ordered the two Carnegie Hall concert sets I was missing this morning--a great deal at $14.99 for 2 CD sets, less 10% coupon code, plus free shipping if you buy $50 or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesbro Posted December 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 (edited) Returning to Ellington, here's a suggestion--go to the Concord music website and buy whatever you don't have already. I ordered the two Carnegie Hall concert sets I was missing this morning--a great deal at $14.99 for 2 CD sets, less 10% coupon code, plus free shipping if you buy $50 or more. Yeah, that's what I did. I placed a large order, (10 CDS ). I bought a couple of Ellingtons (the Blanton and the Latin suite) and a bunch of other OJCs I was missing. Price was $7 each including shipping. You cant beat that deal with a stick, I even ordered some limited OJC's. I'll keep an eye for the Masterpieces CD, as that seems to be the winner of the poll. Edited December 12, 2007 by bluesbro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 ah, Peter, #1 Son... ah, Paul, #2 Son... Who the phuckke are you now, elder don chan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 yet that seems a little wishy-washy. this is not some la la la fantasy land. this is reality. where MEN live. MEN with strong opinions. this negative flanagan talk i am reading is leading to some good discussion. The other day, I was trying to persuade a female jazz fan to come here. She replied, "Oh, yea, Organissimo: the mens' jazz club. No thanks." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 clementine's negative opinions remind me of Lester Bangs' writing. Bangs would make very negative remarks about a rock group which was widely loved and critically respected, on the basis of ideas which were certainly different than the mainstream thought, and not always obviously correct. He was thought provoking, and made you question the conventional wisdom and whether you had just swallowed the conventional wisdom whole. I see a value in that type of "poking a needle into the balloon" writing. I would find it more difficult to enjoy a young poster who had not heard much music and wrote things like, "that Duke Ellington sounds so old timey, he's no good." That would be unproductive negativity, in my opinion. There could still be some value in the discussion it would provoke, I suppose. That's well said HP, and while I can understand (by just a hint) what Clem is getting at, I'd rather hear Mr. Flanagan on a piano missing a few keys than Russ Freeman, anyday. A huge thumbs up for Carl "Grooveyard" Perkins, by the way! ( I've guess youve heard Phineas do Grooveyard, Clem) For Ellington, I love "The Queen Suite" (and Flanagan does a great "Sunset and the Mockingbird") and "Paris Concert", just to name two. I once heard Stan Getz do "Lush Life" in a hotel lounge filled with mid week ,drunk traveling salesmen, that was so emotional he almost came down off the stage and challenge one to a fight. It was great. Great band with another one for Clem's list: Albert Daley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 ah, Peter, #1 Son-- what edc is getting at is IF Tommy Flanagan composed more, better than either 1) his limited emotional range at the keyboard would me more tolerable 2) confronted with his own limitations, he would have been more likely to expand upon then In light of edc's comments, I relistened to Tommy's live trio CD "Sunset and the Mockingbird - The Birthday Concert" on Blue Note. I invite everyone who has it (or even if you don't) to give that a good listen and then honestly ask yourself if 1) and 2) above are indeed true, namely, that Tommy has limited emotional range, and that he is a "limited" pianist. That CD IMO makes mockery of those assertions. In fact, following up on this discussion, I think someone ought to nominate that CD for an AOTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 What's the Latin American Suite? What year? Geez, Ihave SO much Ellington, and there's STILL SO MANY I don't have. Features the utterly fabulous and stupendous The Sleeping Lady and the Giant Who Watches Over Her. i second the 'utterly fabulous' and 'stupendous' adjectives for this piece. This is a great album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 Mr. Flanagan on a piano missing a few keys than Russ Freeman, anyday. Russ Freeman 1950s > Tommy Flanagan's career... ya'll wanna thank Art Pepper or Chet for that, okay, but facts is facts. (& this one incontrovertible: just try!) I'll do that, Clem. I'm a WIDE open kind of guy. In a music appreciation sense, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 [ah, John, #3 son-- edc will, if not gladly, listen to that Effin' record you suggest tho' if it * has a WIDE tonal range * a WIDE percussive range * a WIDE intellectual range, if we can grant song choice an intellectual exercise * a WIDE emotional range, including both wit & pathos i'll hit it from behind, sure, just like any other WIDE body. The CD I suggest has all those things, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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