Nicholas Payton: Sonic Trance

[Matthew]

Like moths drawn to flames, it seems trumpeters continue to feel the need to come to grips with "electric Miles". If you do not like "Bitches Brew", my guess is that you will not like "Sonic Trance". Payton goes full-bore into an eletronica atmosphere with this new cd, with the pluses and minuses that entails. There are eighteen selection to ST, but of those eighteen, thirteen clock in under 4:21, and most of these are under two minutes. So the focus of ST is feel and not developed "songs" in the traditional sense. Payton's trumpet rarely has a "pure" trumpet sound; he puts it through phasing, and a liberal use of the "Wah-Wah" effect that Miles used in "Pangaea" & "Agharta". Tim Warfield shines throughout ST, especially on Saprano Sax; and Kevin Hays has many fine moments on keyboards. It's strikes my as the kind of cd that will grow on a person with repeated listens, and I would say this is the best cd in this style since Henry Kaiser & Wadada Leo Smith's "Yo, Miles!"

[Dan Gould]

Thanks, but I'm going to happily pass while continuing to listen to Payton's Place.

[Brad]

Sounds like something I'll want to pass on as well.

[Ed S]

I had wanted to check this one out but sort of lost track of the release date. A review in the Buffalo News got it back on my radar screen. I ordered it from CD Universe and should be getting it any day. I'm really looking forward to listening to it, especially after reading the review.

The reviewer - Jeff Simon - is mostly a straight ahead jazz guy, though he digs Scofield and the Matthew Shipp crowd. I guess his tastes cross a pretty wide jazz spectrum, but I was sort of surprised to read the review that he wrote. Here's a cut and paste:

Whatever it was that happened to trumpet players in the past 18 months, cross your fingers and hope that it never stops. Where once we had one of the Neos from Ellis Marsalis' unofficial New Orleans Jazz Conservatory - a vest-busting but unambitious mainstream bop chopmeister with a tone as wide as the Delta - we now suddenly have a hugely daring and imaginative horn player who has made one of the most inventive jazz records of an otherwise timid year.

Imagination and integrity were the qualities most conspicuously absent from the backwash of garbageous hack "fuzak" that swamped jazz in the years following Miles Davis' "Bitches Brew," where every no-talent Jeff-Lorber-Come-Lately thought he could get in on the act and ride profitably over a wretched marriage of art and commerce. It was pretentious pop jazz with neither the pop or the jazz.

This disc, on the other hand, is a brilliant, restless, post-Milesian riot of electronic textures with these titles: "Cannabis Leaf Rag I," "Tantric," "Sabba-Unranked." It is a hugely ambitious and multi-colored canvas out of which Payton's trumpet continually emerges with startling new statements (his scat vocal on "Shabba Unranked" is raucous low comedy). If this extraordinary tapestry of samples had been the kind of electronic jazz that followed Miles' great pioneering, something wild and woolly and wonderful might have come of fusion after all, rather than pompous drivel.

Cohorts helping Payton's cause here include his usual mob, most notably Tim Warfield and Kevin Hays.

- Jeff Simon

[montg]

Payton's playing (or composing, maybe) generally leaves me cold (although I liked him on Osby's CD). This one isn't for me either. But it'll probably sell well, like Hargrove's did this summer.

One thing I don't get. Why is it that when musicians draw on the pre electric jazz tradition, they're called retro or conservative, but when they draw on 1970s jazz they're ambitious?

Edited September 24, 2003 by montg

[Matthew]

...

One thing I don't get. Why is it that when musicians draw on the pre electric jazz tradition, they're called retro or conservative, but when they draw on 1970s jazz they're ambitious?

Forgive the generalities, but here is MHO: The pre-sevenities music has been done to death in some ways, and the post-sevenities jazz is still, to a great extent, an unexplored mineload of ideas. Plus, the outright refusal of "traditional jazz music" to incorporate electronic instruments, or technology, is keeping that musical tradition at a standstill. Payton is trying to go in a different direction, to get a new sound, and that, in my book, is great to see in an artist.

[Soul Stream]

The problem with jazz trumpeters is that they can't get over Miles. If I want to hear Miles, there's plenty of HIS albums to buy.

[DrJ]

Well said, Soul Stream.

I came to both Hargrove's RH FACTOR stuff and Payton's SONIC TRANCE albums with open ears and great hopes - I admire both of these young musicians, although Payton has had a lot more success so far translating his talent to studio recordings in my view. But to put it bluntly, both these albums were major disappointments to me. Hargrove's sounds like "quiet storm" smooth jazz, and Payton's is just, well, flat out bizarre, over-reaching and unfocused, and clumsy. He gets it right and gives us a glimpse of what might have been on only a very few cuts - the "Cannabis Leaf Rag" stuff is really clever and fun, although not exactly a new musical revelation - but the majority of the CD is flat out boring, and Payton sounds so generic it might as well be a trumpet patch on an early 80's digital synth.

I've sold my copy back already, so SONIC TRANCE joins a select group of less than 5 CDs by jazz artists (out of over 2000 purchases) that I've ever sold back for any reason other than a sonic upgrade or duplication due to purchase of a boxed set.

Payton and Hargrove are clearly struggling to find some type of social context for their music. On one level, I can't fault them - they need to eat, and they are probably tired of the straight ahead bag. But while I think I have pretty big ears - enjoying a broad range of music and being willing to follow an artist pretty far outside their established "norm" if they make it worth my time - this stuff just sounds calculated and insincere.

I still contend the best single collection of modern grooves married with jazz sensibility, outside of some of the classics put down in the early to mid 70's by Miles and a few others, is the collection RED, HOT AND COOL (Impulse!) from the early 90's. The reason: that was masterminded and primarily built upon music made by hip hop and other dance-related pop musicians, with some organic and well-chosen jazz touches and cameos woven into the mix. Therefore, it GROOVED like nobody's business, but with a sophistication and polish that could draw in the jazz fan. It just doesn't seem to come off, except in VERY rare cases, when it's set up the other way around - e.g. taking jazzers like Hargrove and Payton for the core and then grafting on the dance music touches. It's hard to express why this might be, but I think it boils down to this: for a jazz musician, accustomed to the conventions (harmonic and otherwise) of the music, it's hard to "go back" and simplify to play convincing dance music...that's not a condescending view, rather the opposite - there's an essential sensibility jazzers tend to lack that is vital for modern dance-oriented music, and that is the commitment and sincerity to the streamlined groove.

[Matthew]

My main disagreement with your review DrJ, is that this is not a cd about jazz being placed on top a dance-grooves. To me, Payton is trying to create a sonic sounscape where different sounds and emotions are created, making the parts into a whole. I listen to Sonic Trance the way I would listen to a Techno record, in that, what is important is how the pieces fit together to support each other, and then create a sound tapestry. I've listened to Sonic Trance several times now, and each time I'm hearing more clearly how everything fits together. Not just that, but I'm beginning to discover many beautiful musical moments, eg, "Seance [Romantic Reprise], and "Blu Hays", just to name two. I must admit, this cd is really growing on me, but, then again, so does fungus.

[.:.impossible]

I think its a great title! I had never heard anything about this disc. Still haven't heard YO MILES!

[Kari S]

Well, I guess it was "due" for Payton's entry to the realms of elecric Miles. I'm using quotes because it seems that every trumpeter is obliged at some point in their career to make an electric Miles influenced album. In Payton's case, maybe it had something to do with [Payton] signing to Warner. Although hardly an original concept, I think I'll give this a go, since I did enjoy Dave Douglas' Freak In. From what I've heard, Hargrove's album is much more "commercial" than this, with an emphasis on soul more than jazz.

But you'd think that by this time people like Payton or Hargrove would have a more original take on electric/electronic jazz/jazz-electronica, because what they're doing does not really differ that much from what Miles was doing on On The Corner. Hell, some of those drum patterns DeJohnette played could easily pass as today's drum'n'bass beats!

[Kari S]

By the way, you can listen to a few full tracks from the album at http://www.sonictrance.com.

[DrJ]

Well said, Kari S. That is my point precisely. Maybe the title has the words "sonic" and "trance" in it, but when you listen to the actual music, not the promo spin or label promo packet gibberish, there's nothing particularly techno or ambient or even atmospheric about this music. It's wallpaper, and ugly boring wallpaper at that.

[Brad]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, I don't know, but I'm not a fan of that electric period of Miles and why do trumpeters feel obliged to have to copy this of all periods or if they have to copy why not someone else? Frankly (and I don't keep up with these anti and pro Wynton Marsalis debates on a steady basis), doesn't Marsalis come in for a criticism for doing something similar. Shouldn't these guys be finding their own voices. Derivativeness or imitation while it may be the sincerest form of flattery isn't the best way to become unique.

[Big Al]

and I would say this is the best cd in this style since Henry Kaiser & Wadada Leo Smith's "Yo, Miles!"

I dunno.... I've been listening to YO, and it strikes me as the kind of thing Macero was handed along with the instructions: "Here, make some sense of this and splice it together best you can" from Miles himself. There's some nice moments, but it drags in a lot of places. MAN how it drags!!!

ST on the other hand, while I've only heard the samples from the page referenced in this thread, seems more concise by comparison. Whether or not it would hold my interest for an entire album, I don't know.

[Soul Stream]

All these moves into Miles "electric" period by yesterday's "young lions" seem all so familiar. Just a different time period. Remember when they all hated fusion...that's how they made their name. Now...15 years later...they've finally caught up to Miles thinking. Now it's just the 70's way of Miles thinking.

This is BOGUS.

I'll guarantee you one of these guys will be playing "Time After Time" ala Miles in the 80's pretty damn soon, 10 years I guess (Hargrove is my guess for the first on base).

C'mon...why are we all pretending these guys still have something UNIQUE to say. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Dave Douglas, Roy or Nicholas....Hell, they're BAAAADDDD MFers! The best young cats today. BUT LET'S QUIT PRETENDING THEY'RE INDIVIDUALS when they keep trying to copycat Miles!!!!!!! This is all B.S.

[Matthew]

All these moves into Miles "electric" period by yesterday's "young lions" seem all so familiar. Just a different time period. Remember when they all hated fusion...that's how they made their name. Now...15 years later...they've finally caught up to Miles thinking. Now it's just the 70's way of Miles thinking.

This is BOGUS.

I'll guarantee you one of these guys will be playing "Time After Time" ala Miles in the 80's pretty damn soon, 10 years I guess (Hargrove is my guess for the first on base).

C'mon...why are we all pretending these guys still have something UNIQUE to say. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Dave Douglas, Roy or Nicholas....Hell, they're BAAAADDDD MFers! The best young cats today. BUT LET'S QUIT PRETENDING THEY'RE INDIVIDUALS when they keep trying to copycat Miles!!!!!!! This is all B.S.

That's one way of looking at it. My take however is this: You're a jazz musician, a trumpter, you don't want to keep doing the "Hardbop" thing, and you don't want to go in the "Free-jazz" direction either; so, where do you go? To my mind, when a musician turns to the Davis Electric period for inspiration, they are trying to address the question of where their music is going. Just because Miles did it before, does that mean going down this musical road is ruled out? Or that anyone trying this mode of music is a copycat sellout? Payton is making a start in a new direction with Sonic Trance, and it should be judged on its own merits, of which, I think there are plenty of good aspects about the cd. The more I play it, the more I like it. It is a creative attempt to go someplace that can grow over the years, and, hopefully, Payton will stay on this course for a bit, a develop an unique approach. I agree on one point though: Please Nicholas, no "Time After Time"!

[nmorin]

The problem with jazz trumpeters is that they can't get over Miles.  If I want to hear Miles, there's plenty of HIS albums to buy.

Or, paraphrasing something Miles said about Wynton, "What, didn't I get it right the first time?"