The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Another in the same vein, inspired By GA Russel's post responding to Chas' question Also, if the artist is destined to have a long recording career, he is likely to move up to one of the majors eventually, at least for a time. I wonder how many musicians have had long recording careers but NEVER recorded as a leader or co-leader for a major. Some definitions 1 Timescale? In order to avoid the multiplicity of companies operating in the twenties and thirties, I'm thinking of musicians whose recording careers STARTED after 1936, when independent record companies began to be formed again after the Depression. 2 Timescale 2? A long recording career is one that lasts twenty years or more and prodices at least 15 albums (or the equivalent in 78s and albums). 3 What is a major? Victor and its successors (RCA, BMG etc) ARC and its successors (Columbia etc) Decca and its successors (MCA etc) (including the original parent company in UK) EMI and its successors (including Capitol post 1956) Philips and its successors Polydor and its successors Warner Bros and its successors (inc Atlantic after 1973) MGM and its successors (including Verve after 1960) Mercury and its successors ABC/Impulse Several people I thought would be included made an album or two for a major that one tends to forget about - Houston Person made two for Mercury, or he'd be in the list. Sonny Stitt made two for Impulse and a couple for Verve when it was owned by MGM, but otherwise, he'd be in the list too. So would Jug, but for those same two Verve albums. And Lou Donaldson made one album for Columbia. First one I thought of that I think is right is Al Grey then Jimmy Forrest (naturally comes to mind) Nat Adderley Don Patterson John Patton Hank Crawford Jack McDuff Etta Jones Johnny "Hammond" Smith Richard "Groove" Holmes Red Holloway Harold Mabern Rhoda Scott Red Garland Horace Parlan I'm not sure about Lester Young Billie Holiday That'll do for a starter. I'm sure I haven't plumbed the depths. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Not Billie Holiday who recorded for both Decca and Columbia. John Coltrane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Also, at what point does Mercury start to count as a major? Immediately? Lester Young made his earliest "Norman Granz" recordings for Mercury, as did Charlie Parker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Not Billie Holiday who recorded for both Decca and Columbia. John Coltrane? Under her own name? I thought those records were made with other leaders like Teddy Wilson. If not, I sit corrected. Coltrane recorded for Impulse. It may have been RUN as if it was an indie, but it wasn't. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Yes, under her own name. Vocalion/Okeh (which counts as Columbia, I suppose) 1936-42, Decca 1944-50, and Columbia in 1958 near the end of her life (Lady In Satin). Impulse wasn't an independent even at the start? I didn't know that. No Coltrane then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Also, at what point does Mercury start to count as a major? Immediately? Lester Young made his earliest "Norman Granz" recordings for Mercury, as did Charlie Parker. Not really. They were recorded for Granz who had a marketing deal with Mercury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Teddy Edwards Buck Hill Houston Person Von Freeman (his Atlantic debut is from 1973) Dave Holland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Though it seems these days that Concord is more of a behemoth than it used to be, but Scott Hamilton has recorded for them plus a couple of dates for much smaller labels at the beginning of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 MG, Groove Holmes returned to PJ in 1968 when it was owned by Liberty. I would consider that to be a major in those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Teddy Edwards Buck Hill Houston Person Von Freeman (his Atlantic debut is from 1973) Dave Holland Teddy Edwards would have gone in but for the fact that he made some albums for French Verve, which were released in the US on Antilles, in the eighties. Houston Person recorded two albums for Mercury in the mid seventies. Forgot about Von Freeman - shouldn't have. Dunno about Buck Hill. Good call that. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 MG, Groove Holmes returned to PJ in 1968 when it was owned by Liberty. I would consider that to be a major in those days. I doubt it. It was still owned by the guys who the Chipmunks were named after. Transamerica's acquisition is probably the changeover time. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Yes, under her own name. Vocalion/Okeh (which counts as Columbia, I suppose) 1936-42, Decca 1944-50, and Columbia in 1958 near the end of her life (Lady In Satin). I didn't know that. Thanks. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Though it seems these days that Concord is more of a behemoth than it used to be, but Scott Hamilton has recorded for them plus a couple of dates for much smaller labels at the beginning of his career. Ah, yes. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Without checking, what about Ritchie Cole? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Von Freeman made half a record for CBS/Columbia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Fred Anderson Anthony Braxton Sun Ra MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Von Freeman made half a record for CBS/Columbia. You mean, he was on one side of something, like the one he did with Gator? Or he never finished it and it wasn't released? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Von Freeman made half a record for CBS/Columbia. You mean, he was on one side of something, like the one he did with Gator? Or he never finished it and it wasn't released? MG One side of an lp with son Chico. The other side was a Marsalis family band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Von Freeman made half a record for CBS/Columbia. You mean, he was on one side of something, like the one he did with Gator? Or he never finished it and it wasn't released? MG One side of an lp with son Chico. The other side was a Marsalis family band. Ah, so he's out. Amazing. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARussell Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 MG, Groove Holmes returned to PJ in 1968 when it was owned by Liberty. I would consider that to be a major in those days. I doubt it. It was still owned by the guys who the Chipmunks were named after. Transamerica's acquisition is probably the changeover time. From the consumer's point of view, here in the US Transamerica's acquisition didn't change anything. You started the thread, so I guess you get to define what a major is! But as a shopper in record stores, I would call Liberty a major, just as I would call Capitol a major before its acquisition by EMI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 (edited) BN is not a "major"? I'm specifically wondering about John Patton being on the list. Well, here's two: Horace Tapscott Billy Harper Edited February 9, 2008 by BFrank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 (edited) BN is not a "major"? I'm specifically wondering about John Patton being on the list. Well, here's two: Horace Tapscott Billy Harper Blue Note until it was sold to Liberty epitomized the idea of "independent" - small, not always having great distribution, and at the mercy of those distributors to pay for the product. And John Patton recorded several times after his Blue Note years ended - his Nilva album was the focus of one discussion recently as it appears to be set for a reissue, and there were two recordings for the Japanese DIW label. Edit to say D'OH! I got confused and thought I was in the other thread - yes, I'd say Big John qualifies. Edited February 10, 2008 by Dan Gould Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Yes, it's difficult to keep these threads apart - I think I'll start another similar one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 I'm thinking that Louie Bellson may fit the bill, depending on how you count things. There was an Impulse album, Thunderbird, but according to the liner notes it was privately recorded in Las Vegas a couple of years before Bellson brought the tapes to Bob Thiele's attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) Some other suggestions: George Lewis Walter Bishop Jr. Kenny Drew Frank Foster Frank Wess Clifford Jordan Harold Land Howard McGhee Charles McPherson Art Pepper George Wallington Don Ewell Lu Watters I'm thinking that there must be many trad jazz musicians who qualify. They often recorded quite a bit over the years for smaller labels. Danish Papa Bue may be one example. [Deleted from the list: Jaki Byard, Barry Harris, Tal Farlow, Duke Pearson & Red Rodney] Edited February 11, 2008 by Swinging Swede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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