Scott Hamilton on Ballads

[BillF]

Scott Hamilton, now resident in the U.K., has made a record with Britain's own Alan Barnes on baritone called Zootcase, a title which, to my ears, reflects Scott's primary resemblance nowadays. There's often talk of a Ben Webster influence, but I haven't noticed this at all on the occasions I've heard Scott live in the last four years or so. I assume this label got attached in the seventies and that his style has now changed. Hope no one will be offended if I describe him nowadays as "Zoot Sims lite"!

[Dan Gould]

Though I think he still utilizes the "vibrating column of air" thing on ballads, I'd agree that his overall sound moved toward Zoot quite a while ago. Not a slavish imitator, I can recognize Scott pretty easily these days but I think your general observation is correct.

[JPF]

Scott Hamilton, now resident in the U.K., has made a record with Britain's own Alan Barnes on baritone called Zootcase, a title which, to my ears, reflects Scott's primary resemblance nowadays. There's often talk of a Ben Webster influence, but I haven't noticed this at all on the occasions I've heard Scott live in the last four years or so. I assume this label got attached in the seventies and that his style has now changed. Hope no one will be offended if I describe him nowadays as "Zoot Sims lite"!

Actually, he's left the UK and is now a resident of Florence, Italy.

I'm sure he, for one, would be offended to be referred to as "Zoot Sims lite" and I find it mildly annoying, too. But, if that's all you hear.............

[BillF]

Scott Hamilton, now resident in the U.K., has made a record with Britain's own Alan Barnes on baritone called Zootcase, a title which, to my ears, reflects Scott's primary resemblance nowadays. There's often talk of a Ben Webster influence, but I haven't noticed this at all on the occasions I've heard Scott live in the last four years or so. I assume this label got attached in the seventies and that his style has now changed. Hope no one will be offended if I describe him nowadays as "Zoot Sims lite"!

Actually, he's left the UK and is now a resident of Florence, Italy.

I'm sure he, for one, would be offended to be referred to as "Zoot Sims lite" and I find it mildly annoying, too. But, if that's all you hear.............

You're quite right. I mustn't fall into the habits of the jazz critic who called Lanny Morgan "Art without the pepper". Inexcusable!

[jlhoots]

I like that Zootcase CD.

[thomastreichler]

Another nice album which puts Scott Hamilton into the company of other horn players is Benny Carter's "A Gentleman And His Music" (Concord). The personnel: Joe Wilder, Benny Carter, Scott Hamilton, Gene Harris, Ed Bickert, John Clayton, Jimmie Smith.

[flat5]

Concerning Scott Hamilton, I prefer not to listen to him.

I may hear some Zoot or Ben in his playing but no spark.

The engine is not running. The car is coasting.

Now...Ruby Braff! There is a swing player!

[Larry Kart]

Concerning Scott Hamilton, I prefer not to listen to him.

I may hear some Zoot or Ben in his playing but no spark.

The engine is not running. The car is coasting.

Now...Ruby Braff! There is a swing player!

I agree with you about the quality of Ruby's work but don't think of him as a swing player, just as Ruby. While he was certainly taken up by the Mainstream-coining jazz journalists in the '50s and made a lot of recordings through their agency and advocacy, I believe that if none of that had existed, Ruby might well have never have played a note otherwise than the way he did. Further, Ruby did some astonishing things -- e.g. with space, dynamics, and use of the lower register -- that had little or no precedent in previous jazz of any era, though Ruby would no doubt say that it all goes back to Louis Armstrong (and be right about that up to a point ... but only up to a point).

[Peter Friedman]

Ruby Braff clearly dig Scott Hamilton's playing as he recorded with him numerous times on Concord, Zephyr, Phontastic, and probably some other labels I am forgetting.

[Larry Kart]

Ruby Braff clearly dig Scott Hamilton's playing as he recorded with him numerous times on Concord, Zephyr, Phontastic, and probably some other labels I am forgetting.

Though Ruby no doubt was fond of SH's playing, did he think he was better than Sam Margolis? Also, frequency of appearances together on record is not necessarily proof of what you seem to think it proves. Witness, Al Cohn and Osie Johnson, Milt Jackson and John Lewis, or Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt.

[Peter Friedman]

Ruby Braff clearly dig Scott Hamilton's playing as he recorded with him numerous times on Concord, Zephyr, Phontastic, and probably some other labels I am forgetting.

Though Ruby no doubt was fond of SH's playing, did he think he was better than Sam Margolis? Also, frequency of appearances together on record is not necessarily proof of what you seem to think it proves. Witness, Al Cohn and Osie Johnson, Milt Jackson and John Lewis, or Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt.

Larry,

What label did Franklin and Eleanor record for? :<)

Would you clarify the Al Cohn - Osie Johnson issue? That's one with which I am unfamiliar.

While recording together does not always prove a lot, when a leader selects sidemen to travel with and to record with, in the large majority of cases, it does prove a great deal about what the leader likes.

Edited February 29, 2008 by Peter Friedman

[JSngry]

What label did Franklin and Eleanor record for?

Federal, no doubt.

Edited February 29, 2008 by JSngry

[Dan Gould]

[Larry Kart]

Ruby Braff clearly dig Scott Hamilton's playing as he recorded with him numerous times on Concord, Zephyr, Phontastic, and probably some other labels I am forgetting.

Though Ruby no doubt was fond of SH's playing, did he think he was better than Sam Margolis? Also, frequency of appearances together on record is not necessarily proof of what you seem to think it proves. Witness, Al Cohn and Osie Johnson, Milt Jackson and John Lewis, or Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt.

Larry,

What label did Franklin and Eleanor record for? :<)

Would you clarify the Al Cohn - Osie Johnson issue? That's one with which I am unfamiliar.

While recording together does not always prove a lot, when a leader selects sidemen to travel with and to record with, in the large majority of cases, it does prove a great deal about what the leader likes.

Sorry, Peter -- I've been asleep at the switch. Cohn and Johnson may not have been an ideal example; what I meant, though, was that while they made a ton of records together for A&R man Jack Lewis in the '50s at RCA, maybe more than Al made with any other drummer, I'd surprised if Al said that Osie was his favorite drummer. Rather, while they were quite OK together, I'd guess that this was more a matter of Osie being a member of the RCA house rhythm section of the time and of Osie being a very reliable guy and a good reader too, if it came to that. By contrast, one of those RCA Cohn-Joe Newman sessions had Shadow Wilson instead of Osie IIRC; the difference in zest and drive was striking IMO.

[Dan Gould]

Say Larry, I saw you had revived this thread and I thought maybe you were posting your new, significantly revised view of Scott Hamilton's ballad playing since you were blown away by the compilation I sent.

It did arrive though, and you do plan to post something right?

[Larry Kart]

Say Larry, I saw you had revived this thread and I thought maybe you were posting your new, significantly revised view of Scott Hamilton's ballad playing since you were blown away by the compilation I sent.

It did arrive though, and you do plan to post something right?

Sent you a PM just before you posted the above. Let me know if you don't get it, and I'll send it again, though stupidly I forgot to save it. I can remember the gist of it, though -- I'm not that far gone yet.

[Dan Gould]

Say Larry, I saw you had revived this thread and I thought maybe you were posting your new, significantly revised view of Scott Hamilton's ballad playing since you were blown away by the compilation I sent.

It did arrive though, and you do plan to post something right?

Sent you a PM just before you posted the above. Let me know if you don't get it, and I'll send it again, though stupidly I forgot to save it. I can remember the gist of it, though -- I'm not that far gone yet.

yes, I got your PM and just finished responding. Looking forward to your comments!

[flat5]

Ruby Braff recorded with "dixieland" and "swing" "bands". He is a unique jazz master of the American song form, mostly show tunes of the 1920-1960s era. Also a good blues player. As sophisticated as he is, (very! both rhythmically and melodically and in his approach to brass phrasing) he is not known as a bebop stylist.

To generalize his style I call him a swing player.

I don't think it is an insult :-)

[Larry Kart]

Sorry to have been so long to respond here, but it's been a hectic time at my place, what with the aftermath of basement flooding, targeted (I hope) steriod shots in my hip and back (second time for that for me -- scarier this time for some reason, though it does seem to be bringing relief as before, and I will be taking the mound this season as planned).

Dan Gould burned me a CD of what he feels are representative SH ballad performances, plus a few swingers, and I've listened as carefully as I can, this side of burn out. Won't go on a whole lot about every track (Dan sent me the personnel, so if I refer to someone else's playing, it's not because I have X-ray ears) but the earliest, (track 1) "Body and Soul," reminds of what I bridled at the first time I heard SH -- not the aforementioned (in a previous post) use of what sound to me like jump-tenor phrases slowed down (though there are bits of that on other tracks) but what strikes me as an essentially cosmetic application of the swoons and slides that one associates with Ben Webster and such Webster-touched players as Flip Phillips and Paul Gonsalves. I know, some are thinking, "If Flip and Paul can be touched by BW, why not SH?" No reason why, not on paper; it's just that those gestures here sound so external to the actual melodic flow, which is in itself close to hotel-tenor bland IMO. Also, and related to this (and this will come up again, con and pro), while SH doesn't make mistakes harmonically, he also doesn't seem to "engage" the harmonies that much -- this on a song where doing so is fairly crucial. That is, there's almost no sense at any point IMO of harmonic resistances being met and overcome.

That same trait is even more to the fore on "I Should Care" from 1979 (track 2), where I'd go so far as to say that SH hardly seems to respond to the song's key harmonic "hook," the change that goes along with the couplet "funny how sheep/can lull you to sleep." Weird. (Also, I hear a bit of that slowed-down "jump" phrasing at the 1:22 mark; no big deal in this case, though.) By contrast, on "I'm Through With Love" (1986, track 3), SH does respond prettily and inventively to what's going on harmonically on the first part of the bridge ("Why did you lead me/To think that you cared/You didn't need me/For you have your share" but then kind of runs out of gas on "Of slaves around you/To hound you and swear/Their deep devotion ... Emotion."

The two swingers, both from 2000, are "Move" and "Our Delight." I like the way on both heads SH injects some 1944 jumpish Flip-like backward "leans." "Move" is nicely "in there" rhythmically and in terms of melodic flow, but SH gets a little too auotpilot riffy-cheesy for my taste at the 2:00 minute mark. "Our Delight" also has those "in there" virtues, and here is the first time on this disc that I hear SH really engaging with the changes of a piece all the way through instead of more or less skating over them. Nice track.

The same is true of "I Fall In Love Too Easily" (track 6) from 1990. There's a burst of real invention at the 2:00 minute mark, and Dan, I must admit that Gene Harris (here and on the next track) is by a good margin SH's most simpatico accompanist on this CD -- more so than T. Flanagan, D. McKenna, J. Bunch, or E. Higgins; though DM does take a brief but tasty solo spot of "I'm Through With Love." On the other hand, GH does get somewhat automatically bluesy for my taste on his solo here.

Track 7, "Tenderly," from 1993, a duo between SH and GH, is the best of all here IMO. Finally, the sound itself (reaching much farther into the upper register now, and all the better for that) and all its accompanying romantic gestures are what I think this approach more or less requires -- an equivalence between these musically metaphorical "caresses" and some sense that the player is himself is to some degree in the grip of them and/or that mood, semi-intoxicated by the passion of it all, if you will. It's one thing to put on some perfume, another thing to really inhale and be affected by it. Again, for my taste, GH gets a bit florid in his solo, but he is really locked-in rhythmically throughout.

Tracks 8 and 9 are from 2002-3, with an Eddie Higgins-led rhythm section. I usually like EH, but I think he gets in SH's way a lot here, as GH so nicely does not. Behind SH, EH sounds too trebly to me and almost like he's playing a solo in parallel to SH, which is not something that I think SH can handle. At the 4:22 mark on "My Foolish Heat" it sounds to me like SH has had enough of that and usefully begins to asset himself, but it's not a situation that works in his favor overall.

To summarize, there are three performances here that are a good deal better than what I thought, based on previous mostly early experience, I could ever expect to hear from SH -- "Our Delight," "I Fall in Love Too Easily," and "Tenderly." Is it "enough" that SH could reach that level by 1990, after a bit more than a decade of making so many records and of receiving so much praise? I don't know. Am I glad to have heard those tracks? Yes, especially "Tenderly." And if I knew that there were more SH performances at the level of that one out there, I'd look for them. But are there?

[Dan Gould]

Thanks for your comments, Larry, I am going to need to pull out my discs again before I can respond.

I do wish that you hadn't made so many references to the lyrics as I am not familiar with them in the first place so its impossible to know what point in the tune you are referring to. Track times would have been better! It also occurs to me that it might be helpful to others if you had included the CD titles in your comments. In case anyone wants to compare their ears to Larry's and owns the discs, these are the CDs from which the tracks came.

1 - "Body and Soul" - The Grand Appearance (Progessive)

2 - "I Should Care" - Tenorshoes (Concord)

3 - "I'm Through With Love" - Major League (Concord)

4 - "Move" - Jazz Signatures (Concord)

5 - "Our Delight" - Tenorshoes (Concord)

6 - "I Fall In Love Too Easily" - At Last (Gene Harris-Scott Hamilton Quintet) (Concord)

7 - "Tenderly" - Fujitzu - Concord Jazz Festival Silver Anniversary

8 - "My Foolish Heart" - My Foolish Heart (Eddie Higgins Quartet) (Venus)

9 - "Melancholy Rhapsody" - Smoke Gets In Your Eyes (Eddie Higgins Quartet Featuring Scott Hamilton) (Venus)

[Larry Kart]

Complete lyric to "I Should Care":

I should care,

I should go around weeping

I should care,

I should go without sleeping

Strangely enough, I sleep well

'cept for a dream or two

But then I count my sheep well

Funny how sheep

can lull you to sleep

So I should care,

I should let it upset me

I should care

but it just doesn't get me

Maybe I won't find someone

as lovely as you

But I should care and I do

Complete lyric to "I'm Through With Love":

I'm through with love

I'll never fall again

Said adieu to love

Don't ever call again

For I must have you or no one

That's why I'm through with love

I've locked my heart

I keep my feelings there

I have stocked my heart

Like an icy Frigadere

For I need to care for no one

That's why I'm through with love

Why did you lead me

To think that you cared

You didn't need me

For you have your share

Of slaves around you

To hound you and swear

Their deep devotion

...Emotion

Goodbye to spring

And all it meant to me

It could never bring

The things that used to be

For I must have you or no one

That's why I'm through with love

Don't see how there would be much trouble finding where in an instrumental recording of these songs those passages fall, especially because SH sticks fairly close to given melodies on theme statements.

[Dan Gould]

It should be noted that Larry made a mistake with the info I sent him - "Our Delight" which he regards as one of the nicest tracks is in fact from 1979's Tenorshoes, the source of "I Should Care" which he didn't very much care for. So it appears that even at a young age SH could at least sometimes put together a performance that meets Larry's approval.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Dan Gould

[AllenLowe]

just for comparison, Percy France plays a beautiful version of I Should Care on the CD I put out that has him "live" with Dick Katz and Jeff Fuller - perfect balance between the romantic and the aggressive, perfect and unselfconscious phrasing -

[Peter Friedman]

just for comparison, Percy France plays a beautiful version of I Should Care on the CD I put out that has him "live" with Dick Katz and Jeff Fuller - perfect balance between the romantic and the aggressive, perfect and unselfconscious phrasing -

Allen,

Would you please indicate the title, label, and availability of the Percy france CD to which you referred.

Thanks,

[AllenLowe]

well, it's basically available from my basement -

if you're interested I can sell it for $6 shipped - my paypal address is alowe5@maine.rr.com -

(sorry guys, if this is inappropriate) -